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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by midkay on Sun Jul 9th at 10:47am 2006

Hi all,

I've been doing lots of little work on dm_residential the past week or so, and made a few larger changes. Wanted to start a forum thread and begin by updating you all with some progress/goals and latest screenshots.

First, what's been going on - I've given another building down the street an "interior". It's actually a section of the bottom two floors of the building which have been blown out and you can now run through the building as well as up to what's as close a 'camping' spot as I'll probably get in this map. Done a *ton* of optimization as well, tweaks, improvements, all that. I've been playtesting nearly every night for an hour or two with a friend of mine, which I'm glad I can do since it helps to figure out how gameplay will work. It's been a blast; can't wait to get this finished.

Here are the latest screens, as links since I've got seven. Sorry, no HDR here, forgot to compile with the checkbox enabled, and I don't want to wait another 30-45m.

Overview of parking lot/building area: http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/9553/bldg6xx.jpg

.. and from another angle: http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/184/park9vl.jpg

Looking down the main street, blown out building at lower left: http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2496/street3zl.jpg

Ground-level shot of outside of the blown out building: http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/6353/blownbuildingexterior2pk.jpg

.. and the interior (sorry, sorta dark): http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/5898/blownbuildinginterior20uj.jpg

Looking down main street from another angle: http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2561/street21xp.jpg

And from a bit higher up: http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/8752/street37ih.jpg

I'm happy with how things are coming and am excited to start working on new major things tomorrow - more building detail and interactivity, more props, more gameplay.

Comments, critique are all appreciated - please keep in mind the map is currently still around only 30-35% done. I'll keep this thread updated as often as I can, probably a couple times a week with a couple new screens each time.





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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jul 9th at 11:59am 2006

I looked at screen number 1 and these things I noted:


  • Screenshot is 2 times larger in file size than necessary. This precludes looking at screen number 2 through 7.
  • The entire region is contained within a rudimentary square. I can see where that will work, if a prison, or restricted area is the goal however. I have no problems with that.
  • The buildings look like cardboard cutouts. no building really looks like that. Often.
  • The traffic light on the "T" side is facing the wrong lane.
  • The wooden ramps? Why? and Why to such scale? You could literally park a car on those.
  • The grass says summertime. The tree says Winter. Put some leaves on the tree or kill the grass.
  • A similar fence could be employed around the broken car area.

Things you could add:


  • Sidewalks.
  • Breezeways on or connected to the buildings.
  • Fire hydrants.
  • Phone booths.
  • Bus stop benches.
  • Mail boxes.
  • Cross walks.
  • Dirt lots.
  • Playground equipment.
  • Billboards.

Good luck with those other 6 screens.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by G.Ballblue on Sun Jul 9th at 2:57pm 2006

Main thing I saw with it is that it looks way too empty. HL2 has a huge assortment of props and junk that can (occasionally) be randomly placed. There's still some thinking behind it though, usually.

For instance, some garbage lying up against a building would look nice -- or why not have a dumpster with garbage near that? You've got quite a few possibilities oepn to you.


Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it



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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by midkay on Sun Jul 9th at 8:51pm 2006

Orpheus:

  • Alright, I've uploaded screens that are a little less than half as large as they were before.
  • Hmm, yes, the entire map (which you can only see about.. 1/3 of in screen #1) is basically contained in a square, though the gameplay doesn't feel that way. That will be adjusted later, in any case.
  • Yes, the buildings suck. Majorly. Have you seen any good tutorials on this? <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
  • (traffic light) Oops, how did I miss that...
  • That's the only wooden ramp, and to get up on that building... quite subject to change, just the first thing I came up with.
  • It is a bright spring/summer day, but unfortunately although I am using skin "1" for that tree there aren't that many leaves.. I suppose I could try adding my own.
  • Yes, good idea.

I really like your suggestions, I'll consider them all and use most of them. Thank you. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

G.Ballblue:

Yep, certainly empty. I haven't done *any* prop placement yet, really - coming soon. Just getting things laid out and how I feel they should be. I do in fact have a green dumpster with garbage piled around it, funny you should suggest it.. I don't think you can see it in any of these screens, it's in an alleyway.

Still of course to-do: tons of decals and overlays. The problem is I've done lots of this twice before on this map and sometime after I've laid them all out I'll get an "Face List Count >= Overlay_bsp_face_count" error and I can't figure out how to resolve it until I just delete most or all of the decals. I'll save those for the end so I only have to do them once.

Thanks for your suggestions, guys.





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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by midkay on Thu Jul 13th at 10:29pm 2006

Alright, here are some more screens (seven, actually; showing maybe more of the gameplay, I played with two friends last night for a couple hours).

Some changes since the last screens:
* Some work on a couple of the buildings, trying out some different techniques to give the buildings a more realistic look.
* Detachable traffic lights that start out in the right position.
* New ground texture.
* Lots more work inside the corner building - worked on lighting, and a hall with a room at the end. More to come.
* Actual roofs on all of the buildings. Subject to change...

Screen 1, new roofs, more debris: http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8424/residential11eg.jpg

Screen 2, more debris: http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/5262/residential26bk.jpg

Screen 3, wooden ramp gameplay, potentially to-be-removed (see below): http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5201/residential38ws.jpg

Screen 4, view from the sniping spot in the destroyed building: http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/7521/residential42ct.jpg

Screen 5, on the roof of the corner building, looking at the staircase leading down: http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3143/residential57wd.jpg

Screen 6, bloody death <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif"> : http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/4540/residential61df.jpg

Screen 7, death again, showing the new slanted roof from another angle: http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7674/residential72bt.jpg

And changes I've done already from the compile shown in these screenshots:
* Lowered combine tower with rocket launcher, so you can't reach the roof once you jump down to get it.. solves problem with rocket whores camping on roof.
* Rudimentary tree fort in large tree (more or less a flat board cut up a bit with a ladder leading up to it) with crossbow ammo should make for a bit of fun.
* Ladder leading to the corner building's roof. Much quicker, alternate way to access the roof (from inside stairs or wooden ramps). This may result in the removal of the ramps.
* Small other tweaks/changes.

The map's probably around 45-50% by now. Still major to-dos: more interior on corner building, more detail on other buildings, plenty more props, and decals all over the place. Thanks for looking, I'll post another update in the near future.



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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by midkay on Fri Jul 21st at 7:05am 2006

Another update.

dm_residential has undergone a major revamp; the biggest changes since I've posted about the map here. Here's a list of as many changes as I can recall (certainly not everything):
* The map is altogether considerably smaller (shaved a lot off one side of the map) - it feels much more like the right size now.
* Several buildings have been joined up as well as a new, large hotel created with a small interior.
* Sidewalks/streets entirely redone for the best possible efficiency and looks. Sidewalks are clearly sidewalks now with appropriate textures, corners are large and round, brushwork is much cleaner and more efficient. The road also now has a bend in it which, IMO, looks really nice.
* Street lights and street signs.
* Decals are being placed for detail. Some are visible in the screenshots.
* New bus stop (along with sign) and enterable kiosk.
* New small store interior (ground level of one of the buildings, a la dm_overwatch).
* More work inside the corner building.
* More props.

Still to-do:
* More props.
* More decals/detail/debris.
* More interior to the corner building.
* More texturing work on a couple buildings.
* More detail on corner building.
* Redo (currently awful) 3D skybox and surrounding environment.

Following tradition, 7 more screens!

Screen 1, view from "corner building"'s roof - new sidewalks, textures and buildings visible: http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/963/residential1xk6.jpg

Screen 2, a sneak peek at one of the corner building's interior hallways: http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7472/residential2ai8.jpg

Screen 3, view from the tree fort, bend in road visible: http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/2448/residential3bn2.jpg

Screen 4, bus stop in foreground, kiosk farther back to the right: http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2103/residential4ig7.jpg

Screen 5 shot of new hotel's small interior (lobby): http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7606/residential5xv1.jpg

Screen 6, a look at the (currently empty-ish) small store interior: http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/4645/residential6yo2.jpg

Screen 7, a look down the road from the combine tower: http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1610/residential7cl0.jpg

I'm nearly there now. image I'm considering releasing a beta, but what I personally think would be more fun is getting together a beta playtest with a few friends as well as anyone here who might want to join. This is probably a futile effort, but please, leave a post if you're interested at all, and I'd like to see what we can get together.

Thanks for looking. Any more suggestions, now's the best time. image



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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Fri Jul 21st at 7:36am 2006

Hi midk,

Screen 1: First thing I noticed was that there are a too many windows on each building. Why not cut the number of windows in half and see how it looks?

Screen 2: The light on the left wall is too bright. Try decreasing the intensity of it, and if you really want to give it a 'bright' appearance, use a sprite.

Screen 3: Again, too many windows. What's up with the planks leading to the roof on the right? How'd they get there? What are they?

Screen 4: Bus stop and kiosk look good. The streets need more details like that to bring the city to life.

Screen 5: A hotel entrance should be fancier than that. Why not make the entrance an arch, maybe put in a broken revolving door thats been shattered, or at least some doors blown off the hinges. Also, the texture transition from interior plaster to exterior brick is too sudden, another reason why a doorway or doorframe would help.

Screen 6: The balconies and lights on inside the building (both the ground floor and the 2nd and 3rd floors, make this easily the best looking building in your map. Still an awful lot of windows, but overall this building is much more convincing than the others.

Screen 7: I think you need to reasses how you're going to contain the map. A combine wall works well enough for one, maybe 2 sides... but having all 4 sides boxed in by the same wall makes the level seem fake. I know you said you wanted a better 3D skybox, so when you go back and fix it up, try to think of other ways to seal off the map.

Finally, I think the map is too flat. Why not make one corner of the map (or half of it) higher than the rest of the areas. It'll be more fun to play and give a little bit more visual variety. It shouldn't be too hard, just have to lift the buildings up and angle the roads.

Hope that helped. Good luck with the next update.





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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by midkay on Fri Jul 21st at 7:54am 2006

Thanks for the reply, Addicted to Morphine.

Screen 1: You're right. I've discovered that I really suck at texturing/modeling buildings. It's good to get suggestions on these things that I have no eye for. I'll give it a try. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

Screen 2: Definitely. That, for what it's worth, seems to be the result of HDR - in LDR mode, the light looks just fine (surprisingly). The only reason I haven't changed it yet is that I haven't decided on the kind of lighting I want (probably gonna go with flourescent, like in that hallway).

Screen 3: This is the most-used building so it certainly does need more detail. The planks are.. well.. I don't know. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> Probably going to be deleted, that's what they are...

Screen 4: Cool, thanks. Maybe I'll place another bus stop somewhere...

Screen 5: Right. Another thing I suck at: doorways into buildings. If I make the doorway the correct size for a door or two to fit, it tends to seem too small, at least in Hammer. I'll have to just go for it and see how it looks, I suppose. Doorframes are a good idea.

Screen 6: Thank you. I do like this area. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

Screen 7: Combine walls are indeed cheap and need to go for the most part. Since I don't really have any other immediate, simple ideas for map containment, I placed them about as a rudimentary, basic map sealer - so people at least wouldn't walk up to the edge of the map and look off and think "huh?". I'll probably come up with something. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

Oooh.. a hill/incline. That's an interesting idea. Sounds painful, but very interesting gameplay-wise. I might have to give that a bit of a try. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

That definitely helped - appreciate it a lot, thanks. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> *gets back to work*



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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Fri Jul 21st at 8:03am 2006

Glad I could help midk, I appreciate you responding to my points, it's nice to know your time and thoughts get taken on board or at least considered <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

I look forward to seeing new shots.





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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by midkay on Fri Jul 21st at 8:13am 2006

Sure thing, when someone gives a lot of advice and suggestions I certainly make a point of at the very least responding to and considering each one to show my appreciation. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> I'm glad you opened my eyes to a few things, in fact I lowered the "progress complete" from 80% to 75% as a result. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">

I'll probably work for a couple more days and post up a few more screens of the changes. That hill idea is really beginning to look appealing. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> That'd probably take a few hours to get done, what with moving all the buildings+interiors over there up a ways, getting the textures straightened out, integrating all that.. but I love the mental picture I have of it. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

Thanks again.



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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by midkay on Sun Jul 23rd at 4:52am 2006

Hey all,

I'm going to have a play test with several friends (probably around 4-5 people total; maybe 6). It'll be around 9PM PDT.. or like 5PM eastern. It'll probably last an hour or more, but if anyone here'd like to join, even if just for a few minutes, leave a message! <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

Thanks!



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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by midkay on Mon Jul 24th at 12:13am 2006

Typical, I forget to leave the *date* of the game - today. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

That's in four hours or so.



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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Mon Jul 24th at 3:13am 2006

I'd like to help out, but I A) Don't have Steam here B) I'm in China

Hope it goes smoothly. Post some screens of your map in action (ie. people fraggin each other).





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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by midkay on Mon Jul 24th at 4:02am 2006

Drat. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

This build has the suggested hill in it! And what hell it was... I worked for maybe 8 hours last night completely revamping the map for the hill, and several hours today. Time to give it a run. Screens of ramp and gameplay soon. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">



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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Mon Jul 24th at 4:21am 2006

Sweet, glad you integrated it! Z-Axis changes are always welcome!



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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by midkay on Mon Jul 24th at 8:56am 2006

Yep, I'm glad I did it too - although vvis wasn't too happy about it. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">

We played for a surprising 2-and-a-half hours. There were five players at one point, but for the second two thirds it was four of us. We had a lot of fun; the hill brought a definitely great gameplay change, thanks again for the suggestion.

Here are fourteen screens, twice as many as usual - and now they're 1024x760 (who still runs an 800x600 monitor, anyways?) <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> They're more or less all "action" screenshots (not the "clean", formal ones I've been posting). Two notes; the below screens do not have HDR, since I didn't compile with the checkbox ticked, and the screens also do not have proper reflections. Cubemaps didn't work right for some reason, even after several rebuilds+restarts+mat_reloadallmaterials'. Ah well; enjoy.

Screen 1, no comment <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> : http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8540/residential1xw3.jpg

Screen 2, front of "corner building": http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/2706/residential2ay8.jpg

Screen 3, looking down the lovely new hill: http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/8246/residential3gb3.jpg

Screen 4, some new interior hallways: http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4412/residential4vl1.jpg

Screen 5, a peek out from a new camping spot higher up in the destroyed building: http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8793/residential5ny8.jpg

Screen 6, looking down the hill: http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7418/residential6hl8.jpg

Screen 7, a look up the new hill and park area towards the raised buildings: http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1029/residential7ub1.jpg

Screen 8, "ground level" view of the hill: http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3025/residential8fy2.jpg

Screen 9, another look out the new campspot: http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2844/residential9po0.jpg

Screen 10. no gun for some reason (am i dead?) - looking up towards the hotel: http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9408/residential10zq0.jpg

Screen 11, down the street from the far end: http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3176/residential11ow5.jpg

Screen 12, yet another look out the new camp spot - couldn't resist this one, someone's dying in my crosshairs <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> : http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/2694/residential12dk1.jpg

Screen 13, view from atop the roof looking down on the park area: http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/7506/residential13rg2.jpg

Screen 14, just liked the composition of this one - looking down the street: http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/4466/residential14md1.jpg

The playtest went great, I've got a few more ideas in mind and got some cool suggestions from friends, a few bugs that I'll squash... but the end is certainly in sight. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">



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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Mon Jul 24th at 9:45am 2006

Sounds like you had fun!

OK, crits if you want em, in order of the new screenshots.

1) There are still too many windows on this building, and the structure itself is not that exciting. Why not push some areas of the building out, to stagger the sides a bit so they're not flat? As an example, check out this image from the No More Room in Hell mod by dark:

image

Less flat, more of that ^ = nice.

2) The decal seems oddly placed. Too high and overlapping with the windows. I'd move it down and to the right, over to the side of the building away from the windows. Maybe add some trim or signs of a real doorway?

3) The hill does look nice. I was pleasantly surprised to see you curved it instead of just angled it up, so it does look more natural. As for the building though, I'd expect the windows to not be so close to the ground. Perhaps some cement areas near the base of the building before it turns into plastery looking wall with windows. Additionally, there's a whole lot of concrete between the sidewalk and the buildings, looking strange. I'd expect either grass between the sidewalk and the building or at least dirt or a driveway or something to lend the area more variety.

4) Where did all the rubble come from? It looks nice, but doesn't make too much sense. Maybe if the walls around it were concrete instead of plaster, or if the roof above was cut up and you could see where the concrete broke off from it would look more realistic.

5) I'd like to get up here with a crossbow. Also, its a shame about the glowing props over near the parking lot. It seems like the closer light posts are lit correctly, but the further ones aren't (along with the 'crete barriers). Any way to fix that? Also, are you planning on adding traffic lights to your brushwork?

6) The hill looks really nice in that shot! I also like the destroyed windows. You could probably put some rubble down near the ground below those windows. I wish the building itself was less boxy. Also Why not make the bottom parts of the building (without windows on the slope) brick, or something that looks more like a building foundation?

7) Ah, the building up top looks good. It has more interesting geometry, and you've textured in a foundation below the windows. Still quite a few windows on the left side though.

8) Did the treehouse get used much in the playtests?

9) Missing texture on the right side of the cream building directly across from the camp spot.

10) Given the height of the first floor in that building, the windows on the second floor make no sense. The bottom of the window is literally on the edge with the top of the door. I'd just get rid of the windows on that level entirely.

11) I like the blasted hole on the left. How's the performance from that part of the map? I imagine the whole thing is pretty much being rendered at once.

12) midkay +1 frag

13) Playground seems sparse and unused. Why not add a few more props and blend in some dirt around them, making the park look like kids have run around so much in it that the grass has died in spots.

14) Not much to say about this one, just I'd like to see some shots of the inside of that area, with all the rubble and the stairs.

Any ideas for replacing the combine wall? How's the performance of the map overall? Do you have a soundscape yet?

Seems like you could stand to dirty the map up a bit, with decals, overlays, random props and debris.

If you don't have time to read anything else, read this: If you're curious about ways to make your buildings look better, fire up HL2 and walk around the outside of the train station. Snap screenshots of each building, and look at them, study them. I wouldn't suggest lifting the exact design, but instead identify some architectural elements (like rounded edges, varied roof heights, extruded wall geometry etc) and use them in your map. It'll also give you an idea of how Valve implemented the textures you're now using.

Looking forward to more. I also feel like such a backseat mapper right now. Feel free to discard comments or suggestions as you see fit.





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 Re: dm_residential
Posted by midkay on Mon Jul 24th at 11:13am 2006

[edit]
Whoa. I've written one hell of an essay as a reply. Forgive me. smiley
[/edit]

Wow, that's one monster of a post. image I really appreciate the detail into which you go on each screenshot. I'll do the same. image

Screen 1: First off - that screen looks great, thanks for it. I'm so bad with buildings... if I have one weak point as far as mapping, I think it's that. image Slowly trying to add details to these. By the way, I took your reduce-the-number-of-windows suggestion on one of the buildings. The brushwork is more complex now since the texture is of two windows, meaning I had to cut out "windows" and "wall" and kind of tile the two together. I think it looks better though. Unfortunately I can't find much of a view of it in any screen but it's just barely visible in screen #6 - the orange colored building behind the yellow one.

Screen 2: Something I've had in mind for a while. I'm just wondering how it will clash with the decal that creates the lack-of-windows there. I should just cut out a section of wall and texture it windowless but instead I used a windowless overlay atop the large windowed brush. I should fix that soon. Also, doors are coming soon - you can see I added some to the hotel (brick building with some detail to it).

Screen 3: Thanks. I spent so long on it, gah. image Not fun to create.. but worth it. It curves up, levels out a bit (not entirely) and starts curving back up a bit. The windows do need to be changed, you're right. The building will probably just be moved up and yeah, I'll give it a concrete foundation like I've done with several of the other buildings on the hill (e.g. the hotel). As for the spacing between sidewalk and building - this should be filled in probably with grass and maybe a few trees, I agree.

Screen 4: The hallway (that works its way up not-quite-the-center of the building) which I haven't really illustrated in any screenshots yet presented a problem with hallways - since the staircase is off-center, hallways down one or two sides of the building can't reach out very far before hitting the edge of the building. I decided as a partial "workaround" I might have the building cut off along that side - destroyed - by the combine walls. Which might go entirely. In which case I'll make the building bigger. Gah. So many options. image It's just not very clear yet that the hallway has been cut off, although it will either be clarified or the concept removed altogether.

Screen 5: This would indeed be a very good place for a crossbow - there's already one placed in the map but it's not very close by and you have to jump out and run around the building to get it, then all the way back up inside. Since the map is already getting big I'm approaching the possibility of having two places that a single weapon spawns for most weapons (e.g. a 357 in the corner building and one in the kiosk - across the map from each other). As for the props - I don't know. : Something I've noticed is that while the combine walls/shields cast shadows on the brushes, they don't block light from lighting the player's weapon - so standing anywhere in those combine wall shadows should leave you with a fully sunlit weapon. This may apply to props as well - it would certainly seem so. I'm not sure what to do. Maybe a BLOCK LIGHT brush if it comes down to that. Or maybe that problem will solve itself when the combine walls are replaced with something else. Oh, and traffic lights - yes, traffic lights spawn there. They are, however, removable when damaged, so you can shoot them down and throw them around. image As a side note, I'll probably redo that brushwork. It looks too bold and too... straight, perhaps. I don't really like it.

Screen 6: Thanks @ the hill. The destroyed sections of wall look alright but I'm not very happy with them yet - they're displacements and sometimes don't seam together too well. Rubble's a good idea. A foundation will come soon as noted above. image

Screen 7: The building up top = the "hotel". The only building that isn't more or less a box, I think. image The windows on the left side are.. yeah. Dense. I'll work on that.

Screen 8: Funny thing - the ladder leading up to it was extremely fux0red in the version we tested. It's always been a bit weird, but I must have done something to really screw it up recently. I'm trying a fix for the next compile. I did however see several players give several attempts at getting up there, and a couple times a player managed to get on the ladder just right and make it up to the top. It was pretty cool, from the "new camp spot" I watched, zoomed in, as someone camping up in the treehouse was ambushed from someone else who climbed up behind them and crowbarred them to death. image Your question would seem to imply that it may not be a very important part of gameplay, and I agree there is potential for that; when the ladder's working again I'll have to see if the treehouse is used when it's actually accessible or if it's ignored mostly. I have health vials and crossbow ammo up there.

Screen 9: Right. Ooops. Forgot to select something when moving the building upwards. image Nice find, I never even noticed. image

Screen 10: You're right, I missed that. In an earlier screenshot in this thread - here [ http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7606/residential5xv1.jpg ] - there was a bit more distance between window and lobby ceiling. I "fixed" that and as a result it looks wrong. Removing windows from that floor altogether sounds like the correct solution indeed.

Screen 11: Thanks, the hole serves its purpose indeed image Performance I could go on about for a while. Map performance even from a far corner seeing everything the map has to offer has been surprisingly good for me for quite a long time. I've been spending a lot of time using nodraw *everywhere* possible, keeping brushes as aligned/efficient as possible, etc, and it's paid off. In the latest build with the hill, however, performance has taken a noticeable turn for the worse. From the roof of the corner building looking across the park and other buildings on my 7900GT maxed out at 1280x960 everything's been alright - 35 fps probably, no major drops or stutters. But in the latest build from the same viewpoint it may be as low as 20 fps. I'll have to see what I can do to optimize this as much as possible.

Screen 12: Addicted -2 usefulness ;D

Screen 13: Right, I have a slide and some monkey bars.. not much. image Some more stuff like a sandbox or merry-go-round would be welcome here. I used the alpha blending for dirt around the trees, but not yet around the slide/bars. Good idea.

Screen 14: Hm, you're right, I didn't really provide any screens of the inside. Next time, I promise. image I'll recompile overnight and maybe snap a few screens in there and post them here tomorrow (e.g. 12 hours from now).

Combine walls: I have some ideas (taking a few hints from e.g. Overwatch) like piles of rubble, cars, fences, combine shields like you'd see in the HL2 plaza with the forcefields, forcefields by themselves, etc.. but nothing that would satisfy the basically entire open area along the parking lot or at the top of the hill. I might need to use the combine walls there, but I'm not too sure. Maybe I can come up with something. This is still brewing in the back of my head. image

Map performance was noted above, it's gone down since the hill but I'll see what I can do...

I do have several soundscapes.. as well as a basic quiet noise always in the background (ambience) there are some outdoorlike soundscapes a la overwatch as well as one for in the blown-out building (some quiet intermittent groaning metal) and indoors (dunno how to describe it.. just.. indoorsish quiet kind of noises). image

Dirtying up - certainly. I've gone around on a decal spree once a while ago and it definitely helped. A few more of those should be good, then I'll need a bit more debris/trash around.. it's getting there. image Some broken bottles/cartons/bags on the street, but I need more.

I have been looking at especially the HL2 plaza for some reference. I have looked at the source .vmf to see how they achieved some things but I certainly haven't and won't copy anything from there. Nice to see how they managed some things though. Recessed doorways, brick foundations, rooftop windows.. lots of interesting stuff to see there. Also been looking at some other maps like dm_overwatch and some user maps as well.

So things are coming along. On a side note, although I feel that the hours I spent on the hill last night are some of the most painful and tedious I've spent since I started, I don't feel inclined to raise the map's finished %. I haven't gone backwards, not at all, but I don't feel I've really gone forwards. I still see plenty more things to do; the hill was unplanned, but it's really nice to have. I keep seeing new things to do, etc.. I'll leave it as-is for now (the percent) but things are coming along more than ever. image

So thank you, Addicted, for this extremely detailed screenshot breakdown of your thoughts - I really appreciate it. I'll reread and re-reread them again, they all sound very helpful toward progressing the map. image Gah, this reply seems extremely long by now. I must have spent around 45 minutes on it.. hmm. image Tiring. Bed for me now.. night. image



Quote
 Re: dm_residential
Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Mon Jul 24th at 12:25pm 2006

Thanks for the full reply Didn't mind the length at all, it was nice to be able to read your response to my thoughts.

Regarding the tree house: Yeah, from the shot I couldn't tell if there was anything actually up there, but since you put some goodies up there I'm sure people will risk the climb. I'm liking it the more I think about it.

Don't worry too much about rushing out a new compile with some shots, because unless there's a lot of serious changes I'm not going to have as much to contribute in terms of suggestions. In other words, I'm running out of new ideas, so I wouldn't mind if you took a few days in the lab and took this map to the next level. At this point I really wish I could play the map, because I'm tired of talking about the looks, and wish I could give you some feedback on the gameplay / layout. The best I can do is just ask for some sort of overhead layout with the potential routes outlined and maybe even weapon placement if you're so inclined Hopefully your friends gave you some suggestions though.

You know how in Overwatch half of the central building is destroyed and rubble has spilled out into the street, and you can climb it easily to the 2nd floor? I think that would be a really cool element to recreate on one section of the map. Perhaps an alternate way to enter one of the busier buildings, or just a way to fill up an empty looking/feeling area of the street.

Also, I was rereading the early comments in this thread and Orpheus had some good ideas for some things that would help fill up the map. Here are the original ideas that I haven't seen yet in your map, but would like to:

・quoting Orpheus

  • Breezeways on or connected to the buildings.
  • Fire hydrants.
  • Phone booths.
  • Mail boxes.
  • Dirt lots.
  • Billboards.

    • I had to look up the term breezeway, since I'd never heard it before: "A roofed, open-sided passageway connecting two structures, such as a house and a garage."

    Anyway. It's too bad you can't get CS:S assets in the map, because the assault props would be perfect for this map.

    Also, I just wanted to say that your mapping has improved a heckuvalot since I first saw you here at the pit (exploding barrels in a box if I remember correctly ). Also, thanks for the opportunity to offer some critiques, it feels good to make suggestions, it's been far too long since I last thoroughly responded to anything.





    Quote
     Re: dm_residential
    Posted by Gwil on Mon Jul 24th at 7:07pm 2006

    Screen 4 - that light wouldn't be working if there's amount of damage so close it, surely?





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