Finally, I have time for a looksee.
/me will get back to you in a few.
Re: dm_3006
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Dec 26th at 3:09pm 2006
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Posted by Orpheus on Tue Dec 26th at 3:09pm 2006
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Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Tue Dec 26th at 3:38pm 2006
One issue is that the HEV machine does not seem to work.
No way!![<img src=]()
" SRC="images/smiles/icon_lol.gif"> I'm 99.9% sure it works now. At least in Alpha2a. There's a couple of fixes and additions since Alpha2.
I'm glad you liked it, Jake!
Posted by reaper47 on Tue Dec 26th at 3:38pm 2006
? quote:
One issue is that the HEV machine does not seem to work.
No way!
I'm glad you liked it, Jake!
Re: dm_3006
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Dec 26th at 5:53pm 2006
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Posted by Orpheus on Tue Dec 26th at 5:53pm 2006
? quote:
Map 25% complete
25 huh? A bit of an oversight on your profile update or do you really think this is only 25? No problem either way cause I can live with both.
My question is, how much are you willing to change in this map? I mean, the map looks great as is, but its still in need of some major alterations. In other words, it can be fine unchanged or it can be fine changed.
I am not willing to invest an entire afternoon and have it blown off like the last critique I did. I realize that that critique was my own fault, but the afternoon was still wasted.
The map looks fantastic as is. The call is yours.
For the record, this is not my ego talking. I can improve this map, or I can like it just the way it is. This maps success is not pivotal on my comments.
I looked at your readme. You already have a fine crew. They have brought you a long way. I'd hit them up once more at least because there are some areas that need attention.
/2cents.
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Re: dm_3006
Posted by omegaslayer on Tue Dec 26th at 6:34pm 2006
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Posted by omegaslayer on Tue Dec 26th at 6:34pm 2006
Okay a few things, but lemme first say that the map looks great, you
have some great basic archetecture, and I think you should run with
that. Placing too many detail props (I think anyways...) would draw
away from it's futureistic urban look.
You have a great gameplay overall, verticle gameplay is somethign of a rareity these days, and it blends well. Id just have to say that maybe you should unify certain areas with lighting. By that I mean the certain levels of height the player is at should have a "color" to their own, so when the player looks around he can say "ohh im on level x because im in the y color area".
A thing to note is that in the rocket room you can swim under, chuck a nade up to where the rocket is and have it blown to you, thus kinda defeating the purpose of having a maze of air vents to crawl through. Its not really a big deal, but I can tell you that people will be doing that when they play your map (a func_vclip_physics should solve this).
While we're on the topic of the rocket, lets just have a quick chat about the trap. I like it, seldom do I see traps anymore in maps, and this is a healthy one. The problem is I see is that theres no visual queue for the person throwing the switch to turn on the electricity. And with no visual queue how can the switch thrower know if anyones down there? I mean it takes a split second for you to throw the switch, which is enough time to take a nade or cross bow bolt to the face. Is it really worth throwing if you dont know if someones there? You can solve this one of few ways:
-give the switch thrower a visual queue (this could be glass or a monitor) for him to make the decision to kill the person getting the rocket.
-make the switch throwing sequence faster, by that I mean so he can do it ranged. This can be achieved one of two ways: 1) making a plug/socket set up like in lockdown or 2) make it so you can shoot a circuit box to cause a short that would trigger the electrical surge (func_button that doesnt move, but gets activated when damaged).
/my 2 cents on gameplay
Visually I like the tin roofs, thats a real nice touch. But lets get to the sky box, now I realize that your not done yet with it, but im just not getting the sensation that when in looking down im looking at another part of the city, I can tell its not far away. My suggestion would be to add in fog, or dust clouds, OR even look into placing a brush with the scrolling clouds texture over the citys bellow. That I think would give us a better sense of distance.
/my 2 cents
You have a great gameplay overall, verticle gameplay is somethign of a rareity these days, and it blends well. Id just have to say that maybe you should unify certain areas with lighting. By that I mean the certain levels of height the player is at should have a "color" to their own, so when the player looks around he can say "ohh im on level x because im in the y color area".
A thing to note is that in the rocket room you can swim under, chuck a nade up to where the rocket is and have it blown to you, thus kinda defeating the purpose of having a maze of air vents to crawl through. Its not really a big deal, but I can tell you that people will be doing that when they play your map (a func_vclip_physics should solve this).
While we're on the topic of the rocket, lets just have a quick chat about the trap. I like it, seldom do I see traps anymore in maps, and this is a healthy one. The problem is I see is that theres no visual queue for the person throwing the switch to turn on the electricity. And with no visual queue how can the switch thrower know if anyones down there? I mean it takes a split second for you to throw the switch, which is enough time to take a nade or cross bow bolt to the face. Is it really worth throwing if you dont know if someones there? You can solve this one of few ways:
-give the switch thrower a visual queue (this could be glass or a monitor) for him to make the decision to kill the person getting the rocket.
-make the switch throwing sequence faster, by that I mean so he can do it ranged. This can be achieved one of two ways: 1) making a plug/socket set up like in lockdown or 2) make it so you can shoot a circuit box to cause a short that would trigger the electrical surge (func_button that doesnt move, but gets activated when damaged).
/my 2 cents on gameplay
Visually I like the tin roofs, thats a real nice touch. But lets get to the sky box, now I realize that your not done yet with it, but im just not getting the sensation that when in looking down im looking at another part of the city, I can tell its not far away. My suggestion would be to add in fog, or dust clouds, OR even look into placing a brush with the scrolling clouds texture over the citys bellow. That I think would give us a better sense of distance.
/my 2 cents
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Re: dm_3006
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Dec 26th at 8:33pm 2006
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Posted by Orpheus on Tue Dec 26th at 8:33pm 2006
I had noticed while on my exploration that the map is approximately 70% completed. That said, there are a s**tload of finished maps out there that play just fine at that same level of completion.
Anywho's, I was truly impressed with it and would not be ashamed to rate it in the high 7's or low 8's.
I would say this one thing. That little bit of whatever it takes to set any map apart from all the other run of the mill maps is definitely missing.
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Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Dec 27th at 11:20pm 2006
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Dec 27th at 11:20pm 2006
Thanks.
omegaslayer, you have some incredible smart comments here. I'll look into all of them.
Orpheus, the comment about the map status made me think and I tried to find the true reason I chose the low numbers.
It may be true that content-wise it's 75%. Yes. But in terms of work time (which I find much more important) comparing the map at it's current status with the way I intended it to be when I started 75% wouldn't be realistic.
Once again I started a map, trying an experiment for myself (I'm dying to make a non-experimental map sometime![<img src=]()
" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif"> ). I tried to start a huge idea with very, very basic brushwork and then adding to it till it takes the shape I had in mind. I think to some point it worked. Looking at the big blocks'o'concrete I see them at the right place and more structure hidden within them. Like a sculptor sees his statue in a block of rough marble. I like that idea, I never build a map that way. But it's also quite stressful because progress is really slow and especially my custom content creation skills (which I kinda overestimated at first) are too humble to get anything done on the eye-candy side. It's too big.
Basically, I just don't feel like calling it finished. I'm happy with people playing a version with a "_beta" in the filename. Maybe it will never go, who knows. I just like having the opportunity to add to it as long as the difference between my vision and the actual content is as big as it still is.
Nope, none of you have to care and sorry if you read all this expecting a better pay-off but it felt good to verbalize my thoughts. It certainly isn't a textbook ideal way of map building but I enjoy working that way on this very map. While probably building different maps in the meantime. Let's see.
PS: Orpheus, weren't you a DOD:S only player for some time? If I'm not mixing things up... glad to see you back in HL2![<img src=]()
" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
omegaslayer, you have some incredible smart comments here. I'll look into all of them.
Orpheus, the comment about the map status made me think and I tried to find the true reason I chose the low numbers.
It may be true that content-wise it's 75%. Yes. But in terms of work time (which I find much more important) comparing the map at it's current status with the way I intended it to be when I started 75% wouldn't be realistic.
Once again I started a map, trying an experiment for myself (I'm dying to make a non-experimental map sometime
Basically, I just don't feel like calling it finished. I'm happy with people playing a version with a "_beta" in the filename. Maybe it will never go, who knows. I just like having the opportunity to add to it as long as the difference between my vision and the actual content is as big as it still is.
Nope, none of you have to care and sorry if you read all this expecting a better pay-off but it felt good to verbalize my thoughts. It certainly isn't a textbook ideal way of map building but I enjoy working that way on this very map. While probably building different maps in the meantime. Let's see.
PS: Orpheus, weren't you a DOD:S only player for some time? If I'm not mixing things up... glad to see you back in HL2
Re: dm_3006
Posted by Captain P on Thu Dec 28th at 12:02am 2006
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Posted by Captain P on Thu Dec 28th at 12:02am 2006
It's me, back from a filesystem crash. Hopefully I can recover my latest mudanchee versions... :S
I'd say the grenade toss isn't a problem for the RPG trap: that player will spend even more time in the water than otherwise, so if there's a more obvious sign for other players, the vents are perhaps a more preferred way. Anyway, I like the multiple options you keep open for players. Restricting players to one and only one way has become a designers disease imho.![<img src=]()
" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">
A smart player will take yet another approach bytheway, completely circumventing the water. One takes two bricks, puts them at the bottom of the vent, one grabs the RPG and one climbs back into the vent, hops on the bricks to freedom yet again. Voila.
As for adding to the map, you could call it finished and save the future changes as a _v2 or such.![<img src=]()
" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
I'd say the grenade toss isn't a problem for the RPG trap: that player will spend even more time in the water than otherwise, so if there's a more obvious sign for other players, the vents are perhaps a more preferred way. Anyway, I like the multiple options you keep open for players. Restricting players to one and only one way has become a designers disease imho.
A smart player will take yet another approach bytheway, completely circumventing the water. One takes two bricks, puts them at the bottom of the vent, one grabs the RPG and one climbs back into the vent, hops on the bricks to freedom yet again. Voila.
As for adding to the map, you could call it finished and save the future changes as a _v2 or such.
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Re: dm_3006
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Dec 30th at 5:56pm 2006
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Posted by Orpheus on Sat Dec 30th at 5:56pm 2006
Nope. not a DOD/s only fan.
In fact, I haven't opened the game since my disastrous critique. I lost all interest in the game.
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Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Tue Jan 2nd at 3:26pm 2007
Posted by reaper47 on Tue Jan 2nd at 3:26pm 2007
Oh, must have missed the disastrous critique! ![<img src=]()
" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
Anyway, I think I figured out a very final shape for the map. At least layout-wise. The current changes consist mainly of cutting redundant paths (especially the metal walkways behind the garbage container that only lead to a ladder (the ladder is now simply outside). Also the remaining shopping areas are a bit more open for easier movement.
Visually, I had another texturing pass and the results are surprisingly striking for me. I tried to remind myself that the gray concrete texture I used as a filler for the whole map is a dummy texture and therefore replaced it by other textures almost entirely. There are a lot of very nice "metalwall" textures. I'm still experimenting but I think the re-texturing could also solve certain navigation issues by giving parts of the map a clear and recognizable color-scheme. Bye bye, grayness!
Also I'm having a few plans for the RPG-trap.
Really, the last few things I added strengthened my decision to keep the map in a slow but constantly evolving state until it reaches a state where I can't think of any more possible improvements. Things are going much faster now than they did in the beginning and the results are more rewarding.
Hurray for beta1![<img src=]()
" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">
Anyway, I think I figured out a very final shape for the map. At least layout-wise. The current changes consist mainly of cutting redundant paths (especially the metal walkways behind the garbage container that only lead to a ladder (the ladder is now simply outside). Also the remaining shopping areas are a bit more open for easier movement.
Visually, I had another texturing pass and the results are surprisingly striking for me. I tried to remind myself that the gray concrete texture I used as a filler for the whole map is a dummy texture and therefore replaced it by other textures almost entirely. There are a lot of very nice "metalwall" textures. I'm still experimenting but I think the re-texturing could also solve certain navigation issues by giving parts of the map a clear and recognizable color-scheme. Bye bye, grayness!
Also I'm having a few plans for the RPG-trap.
Really, the last few things I added strengthened my decision to keep the map in a slow but constantly evolving state until it reaches a state where I can't think of any more possible improvements. Things are going much faster now than they did in the beginning and the results are more rewarding.
Hurray for beta1
Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Mon Jan 8th at 6:16pm 2007
Posted by reaper47 on Mon Jan 8th at 6:16pm 2007
A few concept shots of re-texturing. Nothing really changed since my last post, but I made a few screens that I think illustrate the direction I've been going with texturing so far.
Basically, I tried to replace every single use of the default concrete texture (you can see in almost every part of the map) with a different, more interesting texture. A lot more metal textures made it in that way. Probably I got too excited about the corrugated sheet iron textures (they're colorful and fitting so I used them to cover big parts I didn't really know what else to do with yet). What you can see already is that I tried to get in more color through texturing, hopefully landmarking a few places better. There should also be some windows soon to make the large blocks and walls less cold and useless but I haven't added many yet. Also this is almost solely about texturing and basic composition. No huge level of detail updates yet.
So, here you go:
Biggest change so far: The area around the garbage is now green:
I'm once again betraying my "futuristic style" promise but I found the classic brick texture to fit in a strange way...
Same spot, different POV. Lots of corrugated sheet iron.
If you look close you see a yellowish texture in the background, a few darker, more structured concrete textures and a tiny bit of skybox geometry. But yes, not much new here.
Hopefully, I'll bring the upper parts too screenshot worthy quality sometime soon. On another note: I added a little "cage" for the RPG now. When you open it a red light flashes near the electro switches. I guess that makes the trap a little more efficient. I always had that in mind but couldn't think of an elegant way of implementing it but now it works nicely.
That's it. Beta1 (yea, beta!) should be out late January or February (in Valve time that means sometime this Summer).
Basically, I tried to replace every single use of the default concrete texture (you can see in almost every part of the map) with a different, more interesting texture. A lot more metal textures made it in that way. Probably I got too excited about the corrugated sheet iron textures (they're colorful and fitting so I used them to cover big parts I didn't really know what else to do with yet). What you can see already is that I tried to get in more color through texturing, hopefully landmarking a few places better. There should also be some windows soon to make the large blocks and walls less cold and useless but I haven't added many yet. Also this is almost solely about texturing and basic composition. No huge level of detail updates yet.
So, here you go:
Biggest change so far: The area around the garbage is now green:
I'm once again betraying my "futuristic style" promise but I found the classic brick texture to fit in a strange way...
Same spot, different POV. Lots of corrugated sheet iron.
If you look close you see a yellowish texture in the background, a few darker, more structured concrete textures and a tiny bit of skybox geometry. But yes, not much new here.
Hopefully, I'll bring the upper parts too screenshot worthy quality sometime soon. On another note: I added a little "cage" for the RPG now. When you open it a red light flashes near the electro switches. I guess that makes the trap a little more efficient. I always had that in mind but couldn't think of an elegant way of implementing it but now it works nicely.
That's it. Beta1 (yea, beta!) should be out late January or February (in Valve time that means sometime this Summer).
Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Jan 24th at 11:02pm 2007
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Jan 24th at 11:02pm 2007
The shopping district was always supposed to be more colorful. I made some (admittedly rough) texture-changes to make the area look less sterile. Still it's miles from the imposing neon-light jungle I always had in mind for this. But Photoshop and Blender don't like me very much lately, so it'll stay like this for the time being:
Other things changed:
I added a small, second layer of corrugated sheet iron so you can now jump up to the warehouse here:
And another shot of the new upper part:
This area has a bit more detail now. I also added much more gravity gun ammo.
A few more changes around the garbage container:
The map's more or less (more less than more) finished for the Beta 1 release that will end the bigger changes regarding layout and visuals. From there on, only absolute necessary fixes or (finally) custom content will be added for future versions. I think I can live with the next release staying the virtually "final version" of this map for some time. It's good enough for a beta release and all the important brushwork is in.
I'd like to start working on something smaller then. I need a break from this project, eventually learning a little more about using Blender and high-res texturing - and then come back to finally turn this prototype in the map I had in mind when I started it.
Other things changed:
I added a small, second layer of corrugated sheet iron so you can now jump up to the warehouse here:
And another shot of the new upper part:
This area has a bit more detail now. I also added much more gravity gun ammo.
A few more changes around the garbage container:
The map's more or less (more less than more) finished for the Beta 1 release that will end the bigger changes regarding layout and visuals. From there on, only absolute necessary fixes or (finally) custom content will be added for future versions. I think I can live with the next release staying the virtually "final version" of this map for some time. It's good enough for a beta release and all the important brushwork is in.
I'd like to start working on something smaller then. I need a break from this project, eventually learning a little more about using Blender and high-res texturing - and then come back to finally turn this prototype in the map I had in mind when I started it.
Re: dm_3006
Posted by RedWood on Thu Jan 25th at 1:45am 2007
Posted by RedWood on Thu Jan 25th at 1:45am 2007
Looks grate.
Maybe you could have a difference in elevation between the ground and the diamond plate in your first and third screen.
Is the bsp. up to date? I'd like to walk through it and see the changes.
Maybe you could have a difference in elevation between the ground and the diamond plate in your first and third screen.
Is the bsp. up to date? I'd like to walk through it and see the changes.
Re: dm_3006
Posted by Stadric on Thu Jan 25th at 2:52am 2007
Posted by Stadric on Thu Jan 25th at 2:52am 2007
Might want to put some garbage in that wheelbarrow to remind people that a wheelbarrow can be useful at that altitude.
Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying
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Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Thu Jan 25th at 11:47am 2007
Posted by reaper47 on Thu Jan 25th at 11:47am 2007
There's an old shoe in the wheelbarrow. I don't know if that counts. ![<img src=]()
" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
RedWood, you're right, the transition isn't optimal. I'd rather consider using a different texture, though. The diamond plate has always been a little random as a texture choice... a helpful reminder, actually. You can get blind for little things like this easily. Thanks.
RedWood, you're right, the transition isn't optimal. I'd rather consider using a different texture, though. The diamond plate has always been a little random as a texture choice... a helpful reminder, actually. You can get blind for little things like this easily. Thanks.
Re: dm_3006
Posted by Kasperg_JM on Thu Jan 25th at 2:37pm 2007
Posted by Kasperg_JM on Thu Jan 25th at 2:37pm 2007
In the shopping district picture, things I would do:
The continuity of the floor is broken by that central pillar. I think the floor around it needs a metal trim as seen in the edges of the room. The light effect might even look better that way.
That central pillar, being a shopping district, looks like the perfect place to put some sort of poster, advertisement or screen of some sort. I don't know if you are going to put custom shop signs, since it seems there would be little room for them. Maybe vertical signs or some sort.
About the rest of the screenshots, they look good. The grey corrugated metal contrasts a lot with the brown textures, and IMO it might break the massive vertical impression that those walls used to make. They used to look like concrete cliffs, a very poetic kind of feeling that worked very well. I'm not sure if you wanted to change that.
Anyway, it might just be the HDR making them look too bright. I know you altered them for the sake of texture variation, and in that sense, the map looks much better now overall.
The continuity of the floor is broken by that central pillar. I think the floor around it needs a metal trim as seen in the edges of the room. The light effect might even look better that way.
That central pillar, being a shopping district, looks like the perfect place to put some sort of poster, advertisement or screen of some sort. I don't know if you are going to put custom shop signs, since it seems there would be little room for them. Maybe vertical signs or some sort.
About the rest of the screenshots, they look good. The grey corrugated metal contrasts a lot with the brown textures, and IMO it might break the massive vertical impression that those walls used to make. They used to look like concrete cliffs, a very poetic kind of feeling that worked very well. I'm not sure if you wanted to change that.
Anyway, it might just be the HDR making them look too bright. I know you altered them for the sake of texture variation, and in that sense, the map looks much better now overall.
Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Thu Jan 25th at 5:55pm 2007
Posted by reaper47 on Thu Jan 25th at 5:55pm 2007
I like the term "concrete cliffs" because it's how I always thought of the architecture in this map. Like man-made cliffs. The new textures breaking the vertical impression is an interesting point. I think I don't have a problem with this, especially around the garbage area. There's enough other places for the full, vertical monumentality. It certainly looks a bit more improvised now. Which is something I like about the place and that hasn't really come across with texturing so far. I'll take your view under consideration. It's just one or two simple revisions from the pure concrete-fest it was before. The textures aren't fixed yet.
I think you're perfectly right about the pillar. Shouldn't be too hard to do that also. Thanks.
I think you're perfectly right about the pillar. Shouldn't be too hard to do that also. Thanks.
Re: dm_3006
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Jan 26th at 5:14pm 2007
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Posted by Orpheus on Fri Jan 26th at 5:14pm 2007
Fat lotta good. The download link is borked. " SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif">
Reaper, get me a functional link please.
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Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Jan 26th at 9:38pm 2007
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Jan 26th at 9:38pm 2007
I changed the host. Hopefully it works now.
Re: dm_3006
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Jan 26th at 10:18pm 2007
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Posted by Orpheus on Fri Jan 26th at 10:18pm 2007
That host put me through 9 kinds of hell, then it laughed at me and called me an SOB. 
You don't believe me? Check this out:
I'll look over the map soonish, but that host sux.
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Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Jan 26th at 10:33pm 2007
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Jan 26th at 10:33pm 2007
Well, I guess the other host was too good to be true then. ![<img src=]()
" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif">
I thought after finding the old one all my troubles were solved. Didn't you post about a good host a while ago?
I thought after finding the old one all my troubles were solved. Didn't you post about a good host a while ago?
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