dm_3006
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Re: dm_3006
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Jan 26th at 11:02pm 2007


I posted a host I never tried before but looked great in "Recently Found"

I have a s**tload of pics to upload. None are complimentary, since you already know the good views.

Hopefully, they will be helpful.

[EDIT]

http://s24.quicksharing.com/

I dunno nada about this place. BUT it seems fair to me.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: dm_3006
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Jan 27th at 2:34am 2007


I realized tonight that this is your first critique done by yours truly. You might not be ready for one if, you haven't read very many of my others. They tend to focus on what I think needs changed. I do not waste a lot of time with placating authors for a job well done. I save those for when the map is released and the author needs them. An author needs his trophies more then than during. Anyway, to make a long story short: My critiques are 100% voluntary on my part. Nothing I suggest needs to be used. I donate my time without strings, so that the author has no room to complain if I inadvertently upset them in some way. I have been burned enough times to make that as clear as possible. This is why I no longer do a critique without the written consent of the author. I feel that if they asked, they cannot gripe.

Also, it takes me well over an hour to write a simple critique. One like this, takes much longer. Please remember that when you want to yell at me for anything.
________________________________________________________________

Now, onward:

This map tells me two things.
#1: Its size has gotten away from you and now you're scrambling to connect all the areas with tunnels and vents. Its big. It needs a bit more thought as to its layout. It either needs made smaller, or the connecting paths need more attention.

#2: Because of its size, its going to be hard to fill it with items, without making the items appear haphazardly strewn about. Item placement is going to be a bitch to get right. To little and people will be turned away from playing. To many, and you'll look like a n00b with the piles of them.

I also noticed that none of the doorways have thresholds. The map, just meanders from here to yon. You have distinctive areas, but nothing marking the beginning, or ends.

I liked the sounds, nothing needs done about them, but the sunlight is far to harsh. The sections with light from above is glaring. Toning this down, might be advised.

Anyway here are some pictures that might be of assistance.

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Now of course I could have missed something so if I did, disregard this. However, as near as I can tell, there is no way to get back out of that nook, without taking damage. You need to either: #1 Put something in there worth hurting for IE the RPG, or #2 Have an alternate way out than simply jumping off.

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This area. Its so out of theme from the rest of the map. It either needs a reason for all those pillars, or the style of construction needs altered to fit another area. I really don't know what you intended, but its the most out of place area in the whole map. I cannot suggest what to add/remove but its in dire need of something.

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That fencing. Nice addition to the map as far as creating scope. The field of view beyond make the map seem much bigger, and makes it feel like a city looking out. However, its to neat. Break it. Roll part of it down. Do something to get rid of the "Just installed" look. You could add a gate, one that cannot be opened, and add some platform outside. Perhaps a landing area for a chopper. Whatever you do, mess it up.

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These two shots. Notice the pillar across the way? It borks out at the base. Also, while I'm in this area, lose the girder crosswalk. You can extend the platform I am currently standing on to the point of a jump distance. The iron walkway doesn't fit. No one would add such a construct in a real world. However, you could add a jury-rigged something in the place of the walkway. Something a bum might use? A board set sideways, or broken a bit? The carpet needs to go as well. It doesn't fit the area.

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That entire roof of sheet metal is held up by that one pole? Just one? And a chair? What's with the chair?

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That ramp. Its to neat and tidy. Extend it past the lip at the top. Make it look added, not built as if its supposed to be there. Its to wide and too thick. Its sheet metal, make it look like it.

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That, it doesn't belong. No where else within this map is there such a pillar. No architecture resembles it.

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No light source. Also, this area is a bit iffy. Its texture choices put it out of sync with the rest of the map. You have crete and steal, now suddenly, you have?? What is that? Sheetrock? Doesn't matter. Either make it seem like it belongs or, switch textures to fit the rest of the map.

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Another no light source? Also, assuming you want to keep this section as is and make it fit, alter the upper floor to another texture. One closely resembled, but definitely different than the floor below.

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I like the blue lights. I do not like them as blobs. Put a lightbar under there perhaps. The intensity is just to bright and focused. Dim it down and spread it out a bit.

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Another no light source. The trim on the floor looks strange too. Tile with metal. I don't know what to suggest, but one of them needs altered.

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Increase the depth, and place some sort of a light inside. Dimly lit alcoves add much to the ambiance.

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Yes, like this one. However, that glaring crack in the back ruins the effect. What is it by the way? My visuals or a defect in the map?

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This switch, although a wonderful trap, resets itself much to rapidly. Also, how can one enjoy the effect, if its around the corner. Traps are best when they can be seen trapping the prey.

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Another dark alcove that could benefit from a light.

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Hallways. Especially ugly ones like this should be no longer than a 3 second run. At least not without cover. The hall needs alcoves or widened so you can add cover of some artificial kind.

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That hole. It leads to the RPG. It needs more thought. Its just a hole leading to another place. I have no real idea how to alter it, but it needs done.

I hope there is something here of use.

Orph.






The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: dm_3006
Posted by Crono on Sat Jan 27th at 4:24am 2007


Orph, those pillars have a small LOD distance. They're not broken by any means. What this does is allow the engine to switch to a lower poly model when outside of your ranges. You can notice it in many maps. I think, generally, people make the distances far too close. If you can notice it changing, it's probably not far enough away and the value should be set to something higher.

The light reflection at the back of the dark area is because of the water shader and probably how the engine renders light. It does it in other HL2 maps, single player and multiplayer (replay the area at the beginning of HL2 right before you get introduced to man hacks, look in the alcoves at the back and you will see the same effect from the water there.) It might be how they designed the displacement map (if they do indeed use displacement maps to do the water effect).



Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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Re: dm_3006
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Jan 27th at 1:24pm 2007


So the two things you pointed out about my comments are non-fixable then? I assume the model glitch is something IN the models design, and the water glitch is in the code?

Well, my apologies for pointing out something that wasn't your fault Reaper.

Notice too that the FPS stay relatively high. I am not sure if its my card or your design though as this map is pretty open in spots. You might be creating a high end machine map.

*shrugs*

You need a low end machine to run it on I guess.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Sat Jan 27th at 5:41pm 2007


Thanks for the critique. I've read a couple of yours before, thus was prepared <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif"> Please believe me when I say that I can truly appreciate the effort. The screenshots and the detailed look at the map is a service I don't take for granted. It is one of the reasons I like this place so much.

I haven't read everything thoroughly yet. But I see some interesting points I'll certainly look into.






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Re: dm_3006
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Jan 27th at 5:54pm 2007


/me bows

*remembers Fisheye's warning about back*

/me bows shallowly.

You're very welcome Sir.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: dm_3006
Posted by omegaslayer on Tue Jan 30th at 5:56am 2007


I like the new texture work. It gives it a more industrial feel to it.






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Re: dm_3006
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Feb 16th at 7:32pm 2007


Where's the update on this thing? I am always curious, just how PO'd someone is after one of my critiques. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/heee.gif">



The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Feb 16th at 8:53pm 2007


There are only 2 pipes I want to add for additional connections. Otherwise it's finished for the next release. I fixed up a lot of details you pointed out. Not everything, though, as I want to get the next release finished ASAP. Playing this version after alpha2a feels quite different.

I'm just trying to think of something original for the doors competition right now, which is my current priority. It seems using env_terrainmorph for organical magic-doors isn't as simple as I thought :/

Chances are high for a release next week!






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Re: dm_3006
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Feb 16th at 9:04pm 2007


Door comp. *slaps forehead*

dangit.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Tue Mar 6th at 5:15pm 2007


So I fixed a few remaining things last night and now Beta 1 is... FINISHED! All it needs is a full compile and the presentation work. Expected release date is tomorrow!

Here's a last pre-release screenshot typical for what I did with the layout:

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Some might remember that the stairs were on the opposite side of the street here, requiring some jumping and walking up in a curve to pass this spot. Now they're in one line with the usual running direction. Less bumps, a few seconds of obstacle-avoiding saved. I added a few more connections and generally tried to make ways a little easier and clear.






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Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Tue Mar 6th at 10:03pm 2007


Hurray, hurray! Beta 1 is finally finished. image

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Download here!: mitglied.lycos.de/reaper47/3006.html

I tried to incorporate as much of the Feedback from you guys as I could. I completely redid the texturing and prop-placement for many parts. The layout should flow better now with added connections and a few more redundant paths scrapped.

I'm very happy with this version. I think it wouldn't be healthy to cling to my initial ideas of basing the map completely on custom modeling and texturing because a) the filesize is becoming a real problem with HDR-supporting maps anyway and b) I won't learn how to do proper texturing (high-res, normalmaps) and modeling within any reasonable timeframe anyway. Call it futuristic, call it plain over-sized industrial area DM architecture.

I think it works quite well the way it is. There won't likely be any big changes anymore except for fixes. The only thing on my personal todo list is the blocky skybox and the upper warehouse/elevator area. I needed to finish up the rest of this map to get a clear head first. I find it very difficult to polish these parts.

I'm open to any constructive feedback, of course. Even little things like bad textures, polygon errors, obscure bugs or item placement concerns.

Again, all you people were a big help, thanks. image






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Re: dm_3006
Posted by Kasperg_JM on Fri Mar 9th at 12:53am 2007


I'll take a look as soon as possible.
Two things I can comment on the screenshot
-The piece of pavement that is detatched looks too big and too thin at the same time. I'm not sure I've seen anything like it before. But it's a minor thing.
-It's not clear how the trusses are attached to the walls. Maybe plates of rusted metal would look nice in those places.

Edit: download not working!




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Re: dm_3006
Posted by Riven on Fri Mar 9th at 3:21am 2007


Wow, been following this map since alpha 1; I had not said anything cause I thought anything I had to say you probably already knew. The most lovely aspect of the map to me was the lighting, simply superb! Definitely a new classic.

If anything, I think the skybox could look a little more interesting; it doesn't complement the enormous work done within the map, and looks quite dull imo except in the small "market area" as I call it, where the buildings line up with the main map. Cool idea on the theme.

The map is excellent though, cheers!







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Re: dm_3006
Posted by Naklajat on Fri Mar 9th at 6:25am 2007


Downloading; will try to pick it apart a little and write something in the next few days.


=o



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Re: dm_3006
Posted by RedWood on Fri Mar 9th at 8:45am 2007


Looking grate. Movement around the map has really smoothed out. I got lost a few times but it never seamed to take to long to get any ware.

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I say this quite a bit. I'm guessing you did this to draw attention to it, but is looks strange. If your going to have a light behind a ladder, maybe you could sink it into the wall or something. I also saw decals directly behind ladders more than one. i can't imagine someone spraying graffiti directly behind a solid object.

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The metal wall at the top of the shot. I got some strange reflections coming of it. could be a cube map thing?

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there is nothing supporting thees pipes.

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both the lights hear are attached to nothing.

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this light doesn't look like it should be hear. (like this at least)

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this needs to be retextured.

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A screen sunk flush to a brick wall? maybe give it a trim or turn it into a external monitor.

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Nice seen, but when i walk up to look outside the player clip is to fare from the fence and i feel like i'm being blocked. i want to get my head close to the fence so i can look down but i can't. frustrating.

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IMO the trussing and the decal don't look like they belong.

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I saw this a lot. i don't think you will ever see a light hanging below the frame of a door. If i were to walk through that door i hit my head on the light. looks off.

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I was nocliping around and i found this. looks like a big pach of expensive texture that could be nodrawed.

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a pice of concrete that thick could never be move like that without being broken. make it thicker or break it up into pieces.

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every time i see this it walk up to it and try to look down it and then i realize it's a sticker. It's irritating and frankly i think it kills the atmosphere of entire area.

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caught ya.

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This is cool but i had a hard time figuring out why it was there. maybe you could make it more apparent that those are door on both sides.

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the yellow light has no source, the red light looks out of place, and i never saw the rl launcher until i accidentally picked it up. I never realized it was a door until i walk up to it.

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It could be me being picky but i couldn't find a reason for the incline. plus i couldn't tell it the floor was dirt or concrete.

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the texture on this wall doesn't mach the others.

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the texture hear doesn't mach the others aound it

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this ledge could use a light. the buildings in the top center and top right center need textures aligned.

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light with no source

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the yellow light i'm pointing at. it seams to be coming from that point but it has no source. i could be be wrong but it couldn't see were it was coming from.

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there needs to be a dark spot above that lamp.

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this blue light is to close to that bright yellow one and it looks off.

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the ledge hanging over the walk way looks weird. maybe ware the walkway is you could continue the pillar until it meats.

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the light hear seem to have no source. the sun doesn't look it would b hitting it and it looks awkward.

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did u want the light off center? (yaaa i'm picky)

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can't imagine the meter man enjoys reading this one. look forced and if you keep it you might want to run some wires or conduit. the ones over the rl launch would go good hear.

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I couldn't figure out why there was water in hear. it looks more like a suicidal swimming pool. maybe add a broking water pipe or something.

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blue light with no source

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blue light with no source

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needs a wire or some sort of power source.

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i don't know it was done on intentionally but some of these don't have back plates. and personally i think it would look more realistic if the the back plate was extended a little past the trusses edge so it looks like it was mounted to the wall more realistically.

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these all look like they don't have much holding them up. it going to look real funny once someone is standing on top of them. maybe add a guid wire or i beam

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the light looks awkward. needs to be moved. the switches on off positions are reversed. when u through the trap switch it looks like your shuting it off. it could use some sprites also. and i don't know why it's like that in hammer but if you rotated the texture of the fence 45 degrees it will look more like a fence.


hope that helps. I want to play a game on this. Think it will be good fun. i don't think you'll have any problems getting a clan to host this thing. Any guesses on when it will be complete?




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Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Mar 9th at 7:23pm 2007


Wow, thanks a lot. You're so fast! <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">

Redwood, how in the world did you find details like this? I must have spent hours searching for things like this and still they pop up everywhere. Very helpful.






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Re: dm_3006
Posted by RedWood on Fri Mar 9th at 7:40pm 2007


Eah, i had some spare time. As for that... the reflexion just happened to catch my eye.



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Re: dm_3006
Posted by Jacfu on Sun Mar 11th at 9:28am 2007


Hey Reaper, this map is awesome. Spent quite a bit of time wandering around in it - very impressive!

just love this composition:

The breakable vents leading to the elevator on the opposite side is very clever indeed! :

Just one question though. HOW do you turn on the electricity to zap players in the water?

Maybe it would also be better if this fence/gate brush didn't dissapear into the wall:

I cant wait to see the fin product. Great work





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Re: dm_3006
Posted by Naklajat on Sun Mar 11th at 11:26am 2007


This release is very solid, the layout changes I noticed improve the flow. It looks very near to complete from my perspective, already more complete than the majority of custom maps I see in the server browser, good job.

The few problems I noticed:

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The collision model of these ladder models prevent you from getting on the ladders from this side.

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However unlikely it is someone would actually stack stuff up to block this lift online, it's possible. You can also stand under it and block it. I think flagging it as 'force closed' would fix it
.
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View from the blocked lift, crouching.

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Minor texture alignment in the skybox, that's pretty hard to see in this screenshot.



=o




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