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dm_3006
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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by midkay on Tue Aug 22nd at 11:20pm 2006

reaper47: Awesome! I really can't wait to try it. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> Hurry up! <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">


-- midkay



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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Aug 23rd at 11:29am 2006

This version is outdated. For comments and suggestions see Alpha2a look here!

This is a first "preview" version of the map. I could list tons of "known issues" (the elevator is buggy, there's a lack of physics props, some parts are probably to dark... ) but see for yourself what you consider most urgent to be fixed and fine-tuned for the next release.

There are no lighting fixtures, only basic texturing and some parts are still very blocky. This version is meant as a play test to see how the map works on a server, find undiscovered bugs and balance basic gameplay. If you have a good idea regarding architecture or general asestetics feel free to post it too, I'm happy to hear how you see parts of the map I'm probably blind for myself.

If you know a server where I could host the map for a test or two that would be awesome. I try running it myself on my pathetic DSL line but I'm afraid this won't work very well.

Ok, it's up. I hope the files are zipped correctly and that the download and the included files work.



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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by midkay on Wed Aug 23rd at 1:59pm 2006

Whoa. This map really blew me away.

The first thing I noticed was the incredible contrast with the lighting. I spawned right by the toilet and garbage pile. The sunlight's extremely bright and its hotspots look sublime.

I began to walk around, and reached a point where I could look up into the sky - absolutely perfectly set-up sun (very bright; yellow-orange). I continued to admire the excellent lighting contrast. I wandered through some watery areas, and really liked the blue lights diffusing out from under some of the pillars (excellent idea, feel... perfect). The water was also perfect - clear and clean. I ducked underwater for a moment once, and I saw a floating ragdoll stuck under a grate - very nice touch. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

Continued to walk around, really enjoying the sights. I approached the area I'd seen in screenshots; the stairways leading up with a blue-lit passageway underneath. This on its own is most definitely the coolest lighting I've ever seen in Source and certainly one of the most atmospheric areas I've ever seen in Source as well. The sunlight filtering down, combined with a warm glow on the stairs and a blue glow underneath is indescribable (everybody reading - turn on HDR and poke around there, *now*). I hopped up on the corrugated metal sheets and really enjoyed the lighting up there. Lots of little touches like that catwalk were cool.

I headed around to an elevator; on my way I came back across the area I first saw the sun earlier, and I noticed a very cool bluish structure sticking up. When I reached the "edge" of the map near the top of the elevator, it was very "wow". The whole structure of the facility is so fascinating, it seems very alien and surreal with the fog (actually it reminded me strongly of Cube, if you've seen that film - some huge, weird location in somewhere impossible). I loved the architecture right there, and indeed all over the map. This whole.. facility.. an incredibly gritty-realistic feel.

I have two minor complaints. One is the lightmap sizing in some areas - it's too bad that you probably won't ever get very smooth lighting with such harsh contrast. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif"> I noticed you increased the lightmap size where I suggested and it was really necessary, although it could surely stand to be even smoother. All over I noticed that lightmap sizes should be much more dense (namely "sunspots" and under those blue pillars). You should cut out just the sections of brushes that are in bright sunlight and reduce the lightmap sizes on these sections to as low as possible - like 4 or even 2 if that's possible. The second complaint is the brightness overall. The indoor (read: far from sunlight) areas are too dark in some areas, especially in some of the places with those blue-lit pillars with low ceilings and water. I hope you add more lighting to these areas but whatever you do, I beg of you - do not touch your ambient lighting setting. The incredible contrast between light and dark in some areas is perfect. I don't want to see that lost.

I'd like to end this by saying that this is probably the most original and most hands-down *cool* layout, architecture, mood, *feel* and especially lighting I've ever seen in a Source map, and probably in any other level in any FPS, period. You've got a masterpiece on your hands, reaper47. I cannot *wait* to try actually playing on this. Bravo.


-- midkay



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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Aug 23rd at 11:00pm 2006

Hey, midk, thanks. You're making me blush a little as some of the areas are really rough, still. image

You're right with the lightmaps. It is one of the few times where I wish HL2 had more Doom-3-ish real time lighting as even with a downscaled lightmap grid the edges look very unnatural. I knew I should have looked at the brightness levels more. The darkness of some of the areas is rather obvious and I could have fixed that quite easily.

I like the "Chapter" system of this board so, please, for further posts about the current alpha use this thread chapter.



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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by midkay on Wed Aug 23rd at 11:35pm 2006

Testing to see if this works, I hit reply in the Alpha chapter - as I did last time - and it didn't work.. maybe it's 'cause I always have to hit that "Can't see this box?" button, I guess since I use Firefox (Doesn't happen in IE).

Anyways, yeah.. I like the look of lightmaps a lot in most areas, but in some areas with such sharp contrast it's hard to deal with. :

Regardless, it's not a huge deal - maybe you can try lowering it a bit more if possible and just get it to look as good as you can. I actually personally thought that the screenshot that I mentioned the lightmap scale on (default 16-size?) looked better than this, since the contrast is so high it looks worse with the current size (very steppy) versus at least the old one blended a bit more.. I'd just suggest trying it lower if that's possible, or going back to 16-scale.. unless you can get very precise lightmaps, fall back to the blurred-but-nicer-looking ones. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">

I'd like to wander around here again to let you know more what I think about the layout, once I get back from work - quite mazelike, in a cool way, but I need to get more familiar with it. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">


-- midkay



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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Thu Aug 24th at 12:00am 2006

Oh, sorry. Yea, the 'pit doesn't like firefox very much. Nevermind.

I'm running a crappy server from time to time. I can't host much more than 3 players or so <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/sad.gif"> but there are a few basic things I'd love to test. So if you see a server running the map feel free to join. Unfortunately you live on the other side of the world almost literally. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">



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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by 7dk2h4md720ih on Thu Aug 24th at 12:02am 2006

Host one anyway and I'll join you. The ping doesn't matter image

I have a crappy server up at the moment. Pw is snarkpit. Just filter by mapname and you should find it. edit: server down



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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by Moike_the_Squid on Thu Aug 24th at 1:53am 2006

I threw it into my server rotation... You can bring it up with a rockthevote, or just catch myself or another admin on.

moto-games.squick.net ~ 70.91.205.205

In the HL2DM server browser it's;

~ ~ [EM] Emanon Systems - Santa Cruz CA - 150+ Custom Maps

-Mike- / [EM] Moike_the_Squid




-Mike- is: Biker ~ Slacker ~ Iconoclast ~ Eclectic Thinker
MoikeNET ~ www.moike.net - Bad Cat Racing ~ www.badcatracing.com



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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by midkay on Thu Aug 24th at 5:31am 2006

I'd also like to join if you got a game together.

Maybe you can schedule one and we can use Moike's server for a playtest. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">


-- midkay



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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Thu Aug 24th at 4:22pm 2006

Thanks, both of you! <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">



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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by [FF]FNDR.Jake_Brake on Fri Aug 25th at 2:26pm 2006

Anytime you need a test server Reaper just let me know, as I run two, one in Dallas at 63.210.148.165:27015 and one in San Jose at 8.6.8.197:27015. I can usually pull in 10-14 [FF] members to support testing depending upon the time of day.

I always look forward to your maps!





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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Aug 25th at 5:50pm 2006

Thanks for the offer, Jake_Brake, sounds great!

I'm living in Europe (GMT+1 timezone that means I'm about 7-9 hours later). I have time tonight but almost anytime would be fine for me if it's later afternoon or evening here and not, say, 4 am image

I'd love to see how the map plays with a few people (I'm not in a clan myself which makes it hard to get so many people to test a new map). Also if you're in the mood of having a 10-minute run of the map with whatever-many players or just for yourself it would be fine too if you just post what you'd like to see fixed/changed especially regarding gameplay.



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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by Evilis on Fri Aug 25th at 11:19pm 2006

Thanks for an example of the right way to start a map with great lighting! I love the hint of the skyscraper through the glint of the sun. The ideas this map bring to mind would be to provide more glints of the future world built upon these lower recesses. Perhaps an occational passing of some futuristic hover vehicle (with audio effects), or more ominous patroling inforcement. Maybe some sign of commerce such as a distance antimated billboard. More glints of buildings showing the future is there but is out of reach. I think this would be really cool especially if you could just barely see it but realize its there but you still strain to see it, just like the glint of the building you already have.





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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by BlisTer on Sat Aug 26th at 10:31pm 2006

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

had a run around in it.

I like the fact that you have creative and original architecture, which, combined with the z-axis usage, gives some nice parts in your map. Personally however, i still think the overal map reminds me of HL2SP too much, partly due to the "dirty" style. But that's personal preference ofcourse.

One thing that struck me as very original and well done are the square pillars in the water with the blue-ish light at the bottom. the effect in dark shallow water is superb and gives great atmosphere:




These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by Kampy on Sun Aug 27th at 5:49am 2006

looks more like a normal city to me. but it looks alright!




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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Sun Aug 27th at 12:01pm 2006

I don't want to live in what you consider a normal city, guys, but thanks! <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">



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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Sun Aug 27th at 12:22pm 2006

Thanks, Blister. The underground parts are something I wanted to build for a long time. This map gave me the opportunity add such architecture freely. The reasony I didn't post any screenshots yet is that there aren't any proper angles that look "right" enough for me yet. Also it's embarrassingly obviously too dark down there...

I guess I always liked the "dirty" style in general. The more I build it, the more the map reminds me of the fifth element, whose NYC scenes have always impressed me quite a bit. I'm not a big fan of HL2DM maps where you fall to death all the time, which kinda forced me to build this map on the bottom of the city rather than on the top of these skyscrapers. I'll try to establish the alien, futuristic theme a bit more with some graphical updates, but I love the dirty feel too much to add much high-tech/shiny stuff. I like to think of the place to be old and abandoned, like it's been in use long ago and now forgotten. That's one of my favourite aspects of HL1/2's art direction and I have no problem with keeping that. I think that the combine structures have always been too shiny in contrast, for example, although they do look very cool.



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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by reaper47 on Sun Aug 27th at 1:00pm 2006

I have a question regarding the upper part of the map.

So far you can only get there using the elevator. This naturally creates a choke-point but it's intended. There's also a spawn point up there but it's far away from the elevator. The only weapon in the upper areas is the magnum. There isn't even any ammo for it. So in order to get anything better or ammo for other weapons you have to move down the elevator again. I did that to avoid people camping in the upper parts forever. But at the same time you can camp up there for a short while very elegantly which is something I like to do.

Now this sounds good to me but it's very experimental. I'd be interested in how you think about it. Should I add a second way up (a ladder, for example?). SHould I put more spawn points up there.

This is something that haunts me layout-wise. image



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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by Kasperg_JM on Sun Aug 27th at 7:28pm 2006

I think the upper area (just like the rest of the map) is superb in terms of potential and "evocative" power. I like the skybox city seen beyond, even in it's early stage.
As for making further vertical connections, maybe you could use a fan like the one in HLDM's snarkpit map. I don't know if it fits with your idea of an abandoned place, but it would bring interesting variation to the gameplay. For example, the fan could be in a wide shaft where there are different platforms and height levels to jump off.
As for other aspects of the map, it's too early to judge. There seem to be several dead-ends but that will probably change.






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 Re: dm_3006
Posted by Kampy on Mon Aug 28th at 2:32am 2006

yeah I mean its a bit like a Deathmatch modification of a normal city.
but like when I think of futuristic Im thinking of like lasers and flying
platforms you know ;D this is more like a part of a ghetto to me ;D
a well designed part of a ghetto but a ghetto nonetheless ;D




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