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Medevil
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 Re: Medevil
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Fri Dec 22nd at 4:58am 2006

Comments?


Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.



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 Re: Medevil
Posted by Andrei on Fri Dec 22nd at 10:41am 2006

This looks pretty good so far, I especially like the weirdness in pic 1.
Yeah the lighting is a little dark, but it creates a nice eerie atmosphere. Though the orange/red colored lights can get pretty hard on the eyes after a while.



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 Re: Medevil
Posted by Captain P on Fri Dec 22nd at 11:04am 2006

I think it hits the right mood with the darkish outside and the blueish cavern. The architecture looks pretty rough though. Perhaps I've gotten too used to Source, but some more trim textures and finer details wouldn't go unnoticed here. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
I like how the architecture feels castle-like, especially below in that cave. You've managed to keep the map from feeling square.
Oh, it's pretty brownish bytheway. Perhaps using a black stone texture works better to give it some more contrast between the wood and the stone?


Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: Medevil
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Dec 22nd at 2:28pm 2006

It seems to work nicely, atmosphere-wise! Maybe a stronger skybox (subtle, but still dark dawn lighting, maybe?).


Why snark works.



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 Re: Medevil
Posted by Jinx on Fri Dec 22nd at 3:51pm 2006

I love some of the brushwork here, especially in the first pic. What's really hurting it, though, is the weak texturing job. I suggest getting a custom texture wad, one that has a complete set of 'matching' textures, to retexture the map.

Holy crap, you aren't using the textures I put on my site, are you? There are some okay random ones in there, but overall they are godawful!

Screenshot 1 - Love the architecture, and the cool crystal. The dark cobblestone texture on the arches, though, looks a little odd. And color-wise, the textures just don't mix too well.

Screenshot 2 - Rock texture on the wall is scaled way too high, and it doesn't quite fit. Maybe if it was smaller and aligned better?

Screenshot 3 - Nice, but it could use some texture or architectural variation at the tops and/or bottoms of the wall.

Screenshot 4 - Like how it looks like you can get up on top of the rock formation. Again, though the texturing is a little uniform.

Screenshot 5 - You are using the same texture on the floor as on the walls, never do that. You might make the stone pillars a different material, too, to add some variation. Ceiling is interesting, and I love the little lantern!

It's hard to tell without a download, but the scale seems like it's a little off? This seems a common issue in castle and temple maps, because they aren't quite normal structures. Part of the problem might be the scale of the textures- if they are blown up big they can make the player's perspective seem tiny.

I'm going to see if I have a texture set for you to try that might work better, just to give you some options.

The wad Dragoon on The Wadfather might be useful.

I'd also recommend Blazeeer's wads, but all the online links to his textures and sites are down as far as I can tell. I combined them all into one wad a while back. It's about 50mb zipped, I'll upload it and provide a link and texture file with credits and links to his old sites. Since there are several differently themed wads combined, you'll see a lot of variety. Many of the wads are sorted by prefix, though, so you can just pop that into the texture browser and there's the whole set right in front of you. It is probably the best set of HL1 textures out there, period. I've used it to texture two or three maps, it's wonderful- everything matches, and he usually provides variants of the same texture so you can do nice floor detailing, etc.

Texture Wad Links
Dragoon (5mb)
Blazeeer (52mb)

Hope that's helpful. I'd strongly recommend the Blazeeer textures to anyone still doing HL1 mapping.



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 Re: Medevil
Posted by Gwil on Fri Dec 22nd at 4:33pm 2006

Looks nice and moody with plenty of nooks and crannies to battle it out between. I'd echo the concerns about scaling though - a common problem when making castle maps as Jinx rightly pointed out. If I recall rightly scary_jeff made a castle map that had the scaling fairly well worked out.

http://www.snarkpit.net/maps.php?map=78

Also - Medieval? <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">




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 Re: Medevil
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Fri Dec 22nd at 11:04pm 2006

I'd like to say the misspelling was deliberate... However it happened, I think I'll keep the name. I like the "evil" part.

Thanks for the texture links Jinx! I think I already had the Dragoon texture set, but I've never seen the other one except in-game.

I'll address the comments all of you have made in my next revision. Thanks!




Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.



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 Re: Medevil
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Sat Dec 23rd at 4:17am 2006

*Update*

No new screens, but I now have a download link. I've added the last of the pathways and sniper spots, so the brushwork should now be complete.

I still have to try that suggested re-texture among many other things.




Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.



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 Re: Medevil
Posted by BlisTer on Sat Dec 23rd at 12:47pm 2006

i like the overall height difference usage, the way you handled architecture in that first shot, and the ceiling idea for the last shot. I also like how the cave has alternate lighting (color) than the rest of the map, but overall i think the outside lighting could be improved, seems too dark and/or bland in some places. Also it seems to me the castle entrance could be made more interesting than just the 2 walls stopping


These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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 Re: Medevil
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Dec 23rd at 6:39pm 2006

Without parallax that sky never looked very good. Tis why I always used Neb1 or whatever it was called.

Glad yo see you mapping again Obi. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Medevil
Posted by G.Ballblue on Sun Dec 24th at 12:58am 2006

Okay, stapled this together for ya. Hope you get something out of it.
Note to self: Snarkpit seriously needs a freaking preview button.

Clipping

Here are a few areas where I found the movement to be a bit difficult (i,e. Jumping and not be able to move, getting snagged, etc)

image
image

I got stuck here. Exactly where I'm standing.

image

Graphics

Graphical flaws and suggestions. You seriously need to check that your textures are aligned, since I was seeing misalignments all over the place.

Turn this into one big func_water, in BSP viewer, I saw that you had numerous water brushes here.
image

For such a long stretch of hallway, I'd think there'd be something "a little more to it" than just this. It felt really plain :/
image

Yea, I know the light is coming from the water, but water isn't a technical light source from what I know of image General nit pick.
image

HOM effect in the cave area.
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This really doesn't come off as a ladder texture. It's pretty hard to climb up straight wood last time I checked. image
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I realize that you're dealing with wood on slopes, and at 90 degree angles, but I still think the ceiling texture in this strip of hallway isn't very aligned.
image

This rather long section of hall felt very prefabed/copied and pasted. Some variation would definitely help.
image
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Stretched texture on this wall support. You copied and pasted this wall support throughout the entire hallway, so you have this stretched texture on each of them!
image

The background in this area was really empty, as you can see. I suggest you add some background detail/building/structures/stuff off in the distance.
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It appears those lava filled lamp posts are emiting light -- but with little effect or ambience. Sounds? Sprites? Glows? I think more can be done here -- my suggestion is in the image. image
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Texture misalignment.
image
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Having a flat dirt floor suddenly change into rock seems a little sudden on the HL1 engine. Once again, minor nitpick.
image

Gameplay

Okay, this map seriously need more weaponry in it. With 3 bots and myself running around the map, making 4 players, we really burned ammo quite a bit. It was usually 1 well equipped player against a bunch of other players with glocks or maybe a SMG/shotgun. More ammo would have been nice, to.

I also felt that the map had little cover in it. When you encounter another player, there is no where to run, take cover, lay a trap, or do anything -- the map consists of huge open brown hallways, and it could use flavor in that mix.

Final thing is this sniping tower I stumbled on:

image

Bit fortified, doncha think? One player with a crossbow and a careful trigger finger can clean house in their, though I guess it depends on your playing preferences/style and those of other players.


Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it



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 Re: Medevil
Posted by Jinx on Sun Dec 24th at 3:21am 2006

GBall mentioned some of the issues I saw playing through. One other- the back cave tunnel area's flooring is nicely rough, but makes movement a little sticky sometimes. Wondering if you could clip over the variation to keep the visual effect while allowing smooth player movement?



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 Re: Medevil
Posted by Tracer Bullet on Sun Dec 24th at 4:51am 2006

Good points, and most all things I plan on working on.

-Yep, lots of misaligned textures. I never paid much attention to that so far, but since I'm planning on a complete retexture in any case...

-The simplicity of the subsidiary hallways is mainly down to r_speeds. I can't do anything about it without allot of restructuring. This would ultimately increase the size of the map, which I do NOT want to do.

-HOM is a chronic and integral part of extensive triangulated brushwork. the compiler just doesn't like it much. I'm hoping that a -full run of vis will help with that.

-Yes, I must optimize movement. I'm probably just going to clip off the worst areas. I have ideas for how to revise the tunnel area.

-There are two sniper towers, and yes they are strong. Nevertheless, you can get anywhere on the map (including below the snipers) without ever entering their line of fire. Plus I've kindly provided grenades below each tower to help dislodge annoying campers. I like a more stealthy style of gameplay, which is the reason for the darkness and sniper positions. It is a conscious decision, which I stand by.




Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.



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 Re: Medevil
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Dec 24th at 12:04pm 2006

Which tools you using Obi?

They have made a few newer versions since we stopped mapping HL1.

Perhaps they will address your HOM issue.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Medevil
Posted by Jinx on Sun Dec 24th at 12:31pm 2006

I would run a "check for problems" in Hammer to make sure bad brushes aren't causing the HOM effects.

Another thing to try might be to seal the level *behind* the triangulated brushwork, then turn the brushwork into a func_wall or something?

Be sure you are using the latest version of ZHLT's, you can get them here:
http://collective.valve-erc.com

Which reminds me, I should probably update mine lol



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 Re: Medevil
Posted by Captain P on Sun Dec 24th at 12:52pm 2006

TB: you can ease up your triangle brushwork by making them into entities. This easily fills your total amount of entities but allows you to keep the VIS job relatively simple.


Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: Medevil
Posted by mazemaster on Sun Dec 24th at 9:00pm 2006

http://www.zhlt.info

For the _newest_ version.


http://maze5.net




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