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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by Bender on Thu Jan 4th at 5:43pm 2007

Terrorists have discovered a weakness in the power grid that supplies power to a nearby nuclear weapons facility. A main power feed that runs through an old abandoned mental hospital has been targeted for destruction, to cut power to security and backup systems, and give an opportunity to comrades to break in. Counter-Terrorists have intercepted this intelligence and will attempt to thwart the deadly bombers.

This map will be the second map I have/will spend major time on. The goal of this map is to create a Counter-Strike map that is truly eerie and creepy for both teams to navigate through. Set at night, in the ruins of an old abandoned mental hospital, this map will incorporate spooky lighting, scary sounds and overall immerse the player in a very haunted, uninviting and uncomfotable surrounding. Real atmosphere and depth are what i'm striving for becuse i feel that there arent enough counterstrike maps that have that dramatic feel that do a good job of providing exciting gameplay. My map aims to accomplish both as best as possible.

This map is in early development stages, and would liek any feedback that can be given at this time. A brief bit about what i've gotten done so far.

There are:

-20 spawn points (10t/10ct)

-Bombsites

-buyzones

-envir. light

-light for interiors (no model sources)

-nearly NO models

-no textures (its pretty much all gray)

The point of posting this map this early is to establish whether or not the physical layout of the map will work for fun gameplay/optimization/interaction zones. I didnt want to go any further until i knew where teams will meet for the first time and interact the most.

also i want to make sure that there is enough flexibility to give players flexibility of movement through the map with out it being a maze or too simple/restrictive.

I think the map is at a very good point so far in terms of the immediate goals i've just mentioned, but would like some honest feedback and input at this early stage. She's not pretty but she is playable. I will post some screen shots at a later date.

enjoy Version 1 of de_mental hospital!

~BENDER





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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by Gwil on Thu Jan 4th at 7:03pm 2007

Hi Bender, please consider including some screenshots for those who don't own CS:S / don't have the time to download and play the .bsp.

YOu will receive a lot more help this way!




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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by Bender on Thu Jan 4th at 8:18pm 2007

Absolutely I will, however, it is a dark map and they wont be the most informative for critics to make judgements from. Playing the map will be your best bet as it always is. I will attempt to post a shot that shows a kind of top view of the level for those users who you described.



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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by amanderino on Thu Jan 4th at 9:45pm 2007

Okay. Let's begin.
I'm typing this out as I am running through, so excuse me when I jump around.
---
I think you might have to scrap the night idea, if you want a realistic map. This mental hospital is supposed to be abandoned, right? Well.. that would probably mean that the lights inside the hospital wouldn't be on. The same goes for exterior lights that would be on the building. Please, don't just take out all the lights in the hospital to fix this. I don't think many people want a Counter-strike map that you have to use the flashlight for the whole map duration. It'd be awful if the Admin wasn't in the server and flashlights aren't enabled.
---
The bomb sites.
A. Is this a courtyard area, and what's the purpose of blowing up a courtyard? The terrorists plant a C4 explosive, and the size of the one they plant isn't big enough to level that hospital (or at least the important part).

B. B makes sense. It's in the basement, so if that were to explode it would be devastating. After all, that's were all the power would be.. I think. I'm not an electrical engineer or anything, so I can't say. I feel confident, though.

A second run around.
I ran through it again and looked at the bomb sites. I realized that A is directly over B. I think I still stand on my previous point about A, though. If there was a basement underneath a courtyard, there would probably be a lot of concrete and dirt separating the blast from its target. Another reason I don't like it: it's far too easy to get from A to B.
---
Stairs.
The stairs are, simply, too big. Try using the dev_measurestairs01a texture to help you with stairs. Also, resizing the stairs will help you with texturing. Open your materials browser and filter: stair. The textures will look strange, but if you mess with the alignment of them, you will get some beautiful looking stairs.
---
The Lobby
I'm talking about the one at CT spawn. It's designed awkwardly. Try looking up photographs of hospital lobbies. Reference shots are always good, but don't copy them exactly. If you do, it's not very original, and you'd probably want to stick your legs inside a wood chipper from the frustration of trying to recreate it.
---
The Roof?
T spawn. A roof? If not, then it really doesn't make sense. If it is a roof, then the walls are too high and the location itself is not high enough. If it were a roof to a hospital, I assume it would be a helipad.
---
Finally, don't forget to add light sources. I know this is an alpha map, but I'm making sure that you know. I'm sure I'm missing something that I wanted to tell you, but it's hard to keep going through the whole map when I'm getting interrupted every few minutes. I think I gave you enough, though.

EDIT: Apologies for saying things that you already pointed out. It took me nearly an hour to type all that because of all these distractions today.



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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by Bender on Fri Jan 5th at 1:32am 2007

Amanderino thanks for taking the time to do such a thorough intial review of my map. I'd like to respond to several of your comments to clear up some issues you noticed.

? quoting amanderino
I think you might have to scrap the night idea, if you want a realistic map. This mental hospital is supposed to be abandoned, right? Well.. that would probably mean that the lights inside the hospital wouldn't be on. The same goes for exterior lights that would be on the building. Please, don't just take out all the lights in the hospital to fix this. I don't think many people want a Counter-strike map that you have to use the flashlight for the whole map duration. It'd be awful if the Admin wasn't in the server and flashlights aren't enabled.
This is one of those details that i'm sorry to say will just be overlooked. Obviously if the building were truly abandoned, it's lights might not be turned on, but perhaps the T's upon entering flipped its power back on. A completely dark map is OUT OF THE QUESTION, but honestly i dont think many people would wonder too terribly how the lights got on. I dont think the night idea is worth scrapping over that, I want atmosphere and fright, night does that, questionable light sources?... to me...who cares.

? quote:
The bomb sites.
A. Is this a courtyard area, and what's the purpose of blowing up a courtyard? The terrorists plant a C4 explosive, and the size of the one they plant isn't big enough to level that hospital (or at least the important part).
You did pick up on the fact in your review later on that both bomb sites are above one another. The underground basement makes sense because there would obviously be mechanicals and conduits underground, my thought was to have a transformer model above ground and maybe an electrical conduit exposed above ground too that would be "vulnerable" to a bombing.

? quote:
Another reason I don't like it: it's far too easy to get from A to B.
Personally I DONT think its THAT close, but i feel that this speeds up gameplay and doesnt require either team to go trucking all the way across the map to defend/defuse. Excellent defense in that whole area is what will win rounds.

? quote:
Stairs.
The stairs are, simply, too big. Try using the dev_measurestairs01a texture to help you with stairs. Also, resizing the stairs will help you with texturing. Open your materials browser and filter: stair. The textures will look strange, but if you mess with the alignment of them, you will get some beautiful looking stairs.
I am very interested in attempting to use this texture to refine the stairs. I figured somethign like this existed, but hoestly i didnt think me stairs were that GROSSLY out of proportion. However, if the resizing helps with texturing down the line, it will be worth the effort.

? quote:
The Lobby
I'm talking about the one at CT spawn. It's designed awkwardly. Try looking up photographs of hospital lobbies. Reference shots are always good, but don't copy them exactly. If you do, it's not very original, and you'd probably want to stick your legs inside a wood chipper from the frustration of trying to recreate it.
The Lobby still needs TONS of work. There will be door textures, and some columns and other things that fill it up and give it a much more authentic look. The style was actually derived from photos as you mentined of a hospital (I KID YOU NOT)

imageimageBoth of these shots WERE/will be used as a reference/inspiration for the main lobby.

? quote:
The Roof?
T spawn. A roof? If not, then it really doesn't make sense. If it is a roof, then the walls are too high and the location itself is not high enough. If it were a roof to a hospital, I assume it would be a helipad.
The T spawn is not a roof but rather a rear/side entrance to the facility, taken inspiration from the photo below of a REAL rear entrance of a haunted mental hospital in japan.

image

I want to sincerely thank you for your comments and hope others take the time to comment as well. I simply wanted to help you (and everyone else who checks this map out) understand what my vision is for this map. To any of you out there who play this map in this early stage I hope this helps (no pun intended) shed some light about my map.

Thank you all for you time and comments...keep em coming!

~BENDER





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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by amanderino on Fri Jan 5th at 2:37am 2007

? quote:
I am very interested in attempting to use this texture to refine the stairs. I figured somethign like this existed, but hoestly i didnt think me stairs were that GROSSLY out of proportion. However, if the resizing helps with texturing down the line, it will be worth the effort.

Actually, your stairs weren't too bad. However, I like uber-realistic Counter-strike maps. As soon as I finish the freakin' layout to one I'll be releasing one here. How long will that take? Nobody knows. I scrap almost everything.

Back on topic, you're right about the lights. They'll be overlooked if the map plays well. So far it seemed okay, I didn't get to add any bots in. Mainly because I forgot to download the .nav files and I didn't want to wait for them to build themselves in-game. I was on a bit of a time budget.

In the photo of the Japanese hospital, that side part looks like a helipad with an entrance below. Maybe that's just me, though. It's not really that important as long as it looks good.

Just a suggestion for future builds:
Since you're aiming for a spooky map, add a lot of sounds in. If you look through the sounds (I think under RAW sounds), you can find eerie sounds of children laughing (playground in c17) and some screams (from the Citadel). I think those would fit well into your map.

I don't know. It's your map.
I have to work more on mine.
Bah! image I hate it.



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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by Bender on Tue Jan 16th at 3:41pm 2007

Quick Update for everyone on the progress on de_mentalhospital.

Been busy lately but have been making some decent progress on the map. From here on out its a SLOW process. I now have the daunting task of filling up all the rooms with models and textures. Getting them to fit, making them behave correctly and so on.

Recently added:
-APC at CT spawn with headlights shinning on the building face (spooky)
-I have started to experiment with sprites and their usage to make things "glow", there is a glowing light inmain lobby w/ cool greenish matrix style light color (very spooky)
-T spawn has a floodlight spotlight lighting their entrance.
-Gazebo in courtyard
-arches in courtyard
-electronics in basement bomb site
-some boxes in basement halls
-some ceiling/wall pipes in basement
-blown out walls in side hall

I have one idea to run by everyone for something unique about this map. Ok since its an ABANDONED mental hosp, some critics have been sayin "well how is there gonna be lights on and duhhh". I dont really have an answer, but i have a few ideas to solve this so help me decide:
1. The T's bring their own generator and have run wires and set up floodlights throughout the building. ( I can do it, will require a bunch of models/cables...blah blah.)

2. The T's have plans to switch on the power from an access panel near their spawn. (This is my favorite idea. Have an access panel near T spawn and CT spawn where teams can switch on and off lighting for the entire level. It could be strategy to stay in the dark or swtich em on and off at just the right moment with the help of team mates. I will of course also incluse some perma lights just to make it playable even in the "dark".)

THOUGHTS?!?!?!?!



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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by Dark_Kilauea on Tue Jan 16th at 10:50pm 2007

I'll give you this ultimatum...

Show me screens and I give you comments <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">


Dark_Kilauea
DVS Administration
http://www.dvstudio-production.com/



Quote
 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by amanderino on Tue Jan 16th at 11:01pm 2007

? quote:
I have one idea to run by everyone for something unique about this map. Ok since its an ABANDONED mental hosp, some critics have been sayin "well how is there gonna be lights on and duhhh". I dont really have an answer, but i have a few ideas to solve this so help me decide:
1. The T's bring their own generator and have run wires and set up floodlights throughout the building. ( I can do it, will require a bunch of models/cables...blah blah.)
2. The T's have plans to switch on the power from an access panel near their spawn. (This is my favorite idea. Have an access panel near T spawn and CT spawn where teams can switch on and off lighting for the entire level. It could be strategy to stay in the dark or swtich em on and off at just the right moment with the help of team mates. I will of course also incluse some perma lights just to make it playable even in the "dark".)
THOUGHTS?!?!?!?!
By critics, you mean me, right? lol

I was just thinking about this map the other day. I was wondering if you had made any progress with it. I log in today and see that you have. Awesome. Anyways, I'm liking your second idea there. I always wanted to make a CS map where all the lights could be turned off and shot out.. but I never wanted to do all the work for it. However, since all your lights will be connected to the one generator, it should be no trouble at all for you.

Good luck.
I'd play the map for you again, but Steam isn't on my computer right now. I'll reinstall it sometime this week so I can play the new .bsp. It is updated, right?



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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Jan 17th at 1:07am 2007

I'm not a big CSS expert but I read the idea about power switching and it sounds fun. But the pessimist in me sees a problem with vrad calculating 2 different lighting states for all the lamps in the map. Usually 3 dynamic (switchable) lights together can produce errors. I'm not sure what's the limit for Source games but you might do a few tests before setting this all up. It's possible the engine limitations are in the way... :/


Why snark works.



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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by Bender on Wed Jan 17th at 2:20pm 2007

reaper thank you for highlighting a potential problem. The REAList in me thanks you. It DOES sound like a lot of fun, but it could be more trouble than its worth unfortunately. This idea i realized is not new, the map mansion (i think its called that) has switchable lights, so i am guessing its possible somehow.

Yes amandarino you are my critic, but i take it all in stride and constructively. Your feedback is honestly very appreciated. ****THE MAP DOWNLOAD HAS NOT BEEN UPDATED!!!!*** I will update that soon as well.

Dark K, I WILL get some screens up for you and everyone else i promise. i just wanted to have some more stuff in the map to show before i went posting screens. They r Coming...





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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by Cassius on Thu Jan 18th at 2:02am 2007

Beans for screens.



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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by amanderino on Thu Jan 18th at 6:45am 2007

I'm almost postive that the lights will work. I can compile something now, I have all my stuff back. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> I'll edit this post later and let you know.



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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by Bender on Sat Jan 20th at 9:51pm 2007

OK all you cool Cats and Kittens out there....Here are some screenies from my latest creation. Still a work in progress, still a LOT left to go but here's a taste for y'all ta nibble on. ENJOY!

CT Spawn entrance. Front of the hospital. No skybox yet, not many deatils. Needs windows n stuff. (The windows you can see were just for testing and will not stay-...bleh).
image

View as CT's enter bldg. Main Lobby. I have spent the most time recently working on this main lobby room because its the first room the CT's enter and considering the T entrance is a "back" sort of entrance, this room should set the tone for the enitre map. This room still needs more detail models and maybe a light or two more. Very cool so far IMO.
image

Main Lobby.
image

Main Lobby again.
image

Depart Main lobby through left lower side and find this room. This is actually a view from the "T" side.
image

Upper Hall.
image
image

Bombsite A Courtyard
image

Bombsite B Basement Electrical room
image

T Spawn
image

OK, hope you all enjoyed that little tour. Still very much a WIP, but i know many of you wanted some screens, so there ya go.

***THE DOWNLOADS HAVE BEEN UPDATED TO THIS PICTURED VERSION OF THE MAP***see profile
~~BENDER





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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by Bender on Tue Jan 23rd at 5:18pm 2007

Updated the screenies in case y'all didnt notice. I actually have done even MORE than what these screenshots show. I will post those new ones later. enjoy!



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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Jan 23rd at 10:54pm 2007

I know its early and pretty basic, but I like the stairs. Nothing flashy, just really clean and serviceable. If you can continue with that throughout the rest of the map, you'll do well.



The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Jan 24th at 12:00am 2007

Hmm... it's a bit early. I think I had to download the map to really say anything but I don't have CSS installed...

But it's way too dark yet, I can tell you that <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> You need more lights and less super-shady corners to please the people who play at daylight and with bad monitors (about 90% of people).


Why snark works.



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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by Bender on Wed Jan 24th at 1:25am 2007

It is definitely dark, there ARE more lights coming and i can totally agree with the need to add more. Not only lights but i am planning on possibly using some lighter textures to "brighten" things up as well as possibly going with snow as outdoor ground. should help.

Thanks for the stairs comments. I like them as well.

I playtested about 50 or so rounds recently with bots and the fps are good to very good IMO considering my system is not very very new. (75-200fps) consistently with 9 bots runnin around. I must say too that the time was flying by. I believe the playability of this map is great, if i do say so myself. Very fun (toots own horn). lol Still needs bunches more models for cover and detail.





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 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by FatStrings on Wed Jan 24th at 3:34am 2007

wow, the whole light thing sounds awesome, night vision goggles will become useful for the first time
when i get the time i'll download it and check it out



Quote
 Re: de_mentalhospital
Posted by Bender on Wed Jan 24th at 2:39pm 2007

yeah and at only $1 thanks to dynamic weapon pricing...you cant go wrong!

Its funny you should mention the nightvision goggles thing because i playtest sometimes with the nightvision and it is very practical on my map.

Is it possible to spawn players with nightvision? how'd ya do that?






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