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FF_Flare
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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by BlisTer on Tue Jan 9th at 6:11pm 2007

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Fellow Pitters,

i've been hammering at this one for quite some time now, time for you to pass judgement and give input/feedback <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">
Bear in mind that i'm at +90% for brushfaces, planes and vertices, so i can't add much, only remove or replace.

gameplay info

download





These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Jan 9th at 6:22pm 2007

The architecture in that last screenshot looks reminiscent of your competition entry..

Coincidence?





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by BlisTer on Tue Jan 9th at 6:55pm 2007

if you'd check the profile of that competition room you'll see that i already said back then that i would turn that into a full blown FF map <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">


These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by Orpheus on Tue Jan 9th at 7:12pm 2007

? quoting BlisTer
if you'd check the profile of that competition room you'll see that i already said back then that i would turn that into a full blown FF map

God dammit man, I slept once or twice since then, You don't expect much do'ya. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/heee.gif">

I'd consider it damned lucky that I recall anything around here Bister.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by Captain P on Tue Jan 9th at 8:44pm 2007

Looks pretty styled. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> Especially the outside looks very impressive. The inside looks more like some basic hallways, but with stylized architecture, but I guess that kinda works for such a map.
You could turn some of those things into models, easier reuse, smaller file, better performance, less limits to worry about, less control over lighting though. Just an idea. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">


Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by BlisTer on Tue Jan 9th at 11:24pm 2007

yeah crisp stylish elements covering simple concrete shapes, to have a kind of renovation feeling, that was the aim <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">


These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by G.Ballblue on Wed Jan 10th at 3:45pm 2007

That red-striped-concrete-wall-texture looks a tad overused. Apart from that, it's quite nice looking <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">


Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Jan 10th at 3:48pm 2007

Very impressive.

I have a problem with the texturing, however. It's too gray and there are big brushes without any structure or something the eye could hold on. That causes some of the rooms to feel a bit empty.


Why snark works.



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by BlisTer on Wed Jan 10th at 4:09pm 2007

thx

hmm, too much red or too much gray?

also i'm not really sure which room seems a tad empty to you, care to point me to the relevant screenshot? bear in mind that i can't add panels or bars everywhere: not only to keep fps above the fps of the standard hl2dm maps, but i also want a kind of balance between rough (concrete) and crisp (panels/bars).




These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Jan 10th at 4:51pm 2007

I think it's mainly about texturing, the brushworks seems to have all the detail it will ever need.

I'll try and make a slideshow to illustrate what I meant. That could take a while. But I can say already it's mainly a texturing thing. I think it has something to do with the contrast between the very clean, crisp and the dirty, old, concrete textures. The contrast is either too light or too strong. Nothing wrong with the contrasty theme but it just doesn't feel clear enough yet.

Maybe you could also make the old concrete structure that should be renovated a little torn or asymmetrically structured, a reason for the renovation parts to be there.


Why snark works.



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Jan 10th at 5:19pm 2007

? quoting reaper47
Very impressive.

I have a problem with the texturing, however. It's too gray and there are big brushes without any structure or something the eye could hold on. That causes some of the rooms to feel a bit empty.

Not really. Its the lighting. To harsh.

Not arguing mind Master Reaper, but I like the texturing, a lot.

I said this in many a map, make dark areas dark. Lights tend to shine in the direction they are pointed... You'd not have so much ceiling illuminated in a real sense.

People make rooms with transitions, but forget that light needs them too.

Darken everything to 1/2 its current lumen's, then lets see what you got Blister.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by BlisTer on Wed Jan 10th at 5:55pm 2007

don't make assumptions Jon <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">

? quoting Orpheus
You'd not have so much ceiling illuminated in a real sense

You assume i did not have lightspots directed at some ceilings on purpose. i did. It's to accentuate certain elements. If you'd had a run around in the map to inspect your assumptions closer you would see that every bright lit part has a lamp model facing it for realistic sourcing. We each have our own mapping style, i respect yours. An aspect of mine is that i use harsh contrasting lighting. My intended shadows are dark. I will not reduce overall light intensity, as imo in DM maps, and certainly in FF maps, you need to have clear vision to focuss on gameplay.

i appreciate feedback, i really do. but the fact you guys seem to be cancelling each-others remarks maybe means this is due to my mapping style and those remarks are personal wonderings, instead of general consensus.

And as much i am for discussions about mapping styles, plz continue those in PM <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">




These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Jan 10th at 6:07pm 2007

I admit I didn't download the map. My comments are 100% on the screens, which look to be nearly fullbright.

I have no intention of telling you how to map, just my views on how a map should be.

I am not part of your Psyche, so your final intentions are not my privy. I can only throw out suggestions. Its your job to catch them, or let them pass on by.

If Snarkpit has been reduced to curtailing its feedback, in the vain hopes of meeting with the authors idea... Well I don't want to be part of that Snarkpit.

My advice is given out free of charge. Don't ask for payment from me that you need to accept.

/discussion.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by BlisTer on Wed Jan 10th at 6:23pm 2007

i meant it when i said i appreciate feedback. i'm hanging out my tentacles to be informed of the general consensus for improvements.

i only established that your opinion was about assumptions and about the mapping style rather than the map itself. A discussion about mapping styles is equally as valuable, but would take us too far from the overall consensus about this map itself, and hence can be better discussed in general banter or pm !




These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Jan 10th at 6:29pm 2007

I willingly admit that my mapping style differs from yours, Blister. But I doubt it's only about style. There's a small detail missing that I think could bring together some bits of the architecture better. The more I think about it the more I could imagine it's simply the floor(ceiling?) texture. The dark-grey one. It looks very, very flat and clean compared to the other textures.

It's really hard to describe what distracts me, because there's so much impressive architecture there already... I even doubt most people will notice what I'm talking about here. It's more a playful way of trying to analyze the (very interesting) visuals. It's fun to try and give feedback on a map by a more experienced mapper. Probably it's painful for you, sorry. <:]

I don't know but I think different tastes/styles is a bit too easy as an explanation.


Why snark works.



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Jan 10th at 6:38pm 2007

I wasn't trying to sound harsh Blister. I was only clarifying that advice freely given isn't something that should be grudgingly accepted. If anything I say about your map is not within your design intentions, feel free to not use them. However, not being privy to those designs, all I am able to do is throw out anything that comes to me.

I would hope that you'd understand that I meant no ill will. However, I also have no intention of second guessing myself because something I said about your map, fell outside your ambition for it.

IMO, the screenshots need light adjustments. If they do not, then they do not. I am not upset with that.

As for our style's being discussed. My maps have no theme's... If thats a style, its a truly vague one.

Forget my previous posts about your lights. I was actually disagreeing with Reaper.. Not you.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by BlisTer on Wed Jan 10th at 6:54pm 2007

no worries Jon, i appreciate your feedback. surely someone else's first impression will be similar as yours. i was just affraid this was going to turn into a mapping style discussion.

Reaper, interesting take about the floor. Personally i don't think it's the flatness or sameness of it. especially since it's varied a lot with normalmapped light-grey tiles or the "pit" in the fr. Nor do i think it's the dark gray color, i think it fits in well. But now that you mention it, it could be the specularity that is too much of a contrast with the unspecular concrete. maybe i was just afraid to have too simple a texture to not use specularity. could it be that ?




These words are my diaries screaming out loud



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Jan 10th at 6:56pm 2007

Well, Blister clearly has a more consistent and unique style with his maps than most of us here (including me, of course). image

(In reply to Orpheus)
____________________________________________________

I really don't know, Blister. Maybe try a few changes to said texture and see if it looks better or much worse.


Why snark works.



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by Captain P on Wed Jan 10th at 9:28pm 2007

I think those greyish flat parts are a nice, easy-on-the-eye contrast to the heavily filled, complex ceilings. It's sort of saying: "Yes, this map has a unique style, and it looks pretty, but here's the route to take, don't get distracted."

I do think Orph makes a good point though, about the lighting and generally, color contrast. It's generally very bright, with too little contrast to break it up. Perhaps that's why I like the brow-greyish floor parts so much, because at least those are a bit darker so they stand out somewhat.
I like the outside, with it's high tower rising up in the night, lit by a few spotlights, but again, I think more contrast could greatly improve the feeling. A darker skybox, a darker top of the tower, with bright spotlights shining up to it... sppoky. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">


Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: FF_Flare
Posted by Dark_Kilauea on Wed Jan 10th at 9:49pm 2007

It looks nice to me, except that it looks... too clean. It looks cleaner than a hospital. Put some trash in there, or have some broken equipment or wires. I think a little trash and wear and tear would do wonders for this map.


Dark_Kilauea
DVS Administration
http://www.dvstudio-production.com/




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