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Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Riven on Mon Jun 18th at 5:18am 2007

I have Half-Life 2 and it shows up as a missing texture as well; might want to re-check your pack again.

The npc's work fine, except maybe the strider, who can't interact with the player all that well because it's trapped behind a wall, and the player can play in the rest of the map without it noticing him.

The area looks fine, but you still need to buildcubemaps in console. I don't care if it's just for a test release, all released maps should have 'em built.

I think the map needs an introduction. How did the player character get there? Did he wake up in an alleyway with an HEV suit on?

The area looks almost believable and the architecture is nice, but I'm unsure of what exactly this place is. For example: there are tons of explosive barrels, yet, it looks like there are enough storefronts, and apartment building fronts leading around a central square, like a park. A park with explosive barrels? I've never heard of that, and there doesn't seem to be any indirect reason to have them there except for gameplay reason, which shouldn't be the case.

I think you should also change the soundscape. It's too repetitive and doesn't sound like anything. I'm supposing it's supposed to sound like distant wind, but just sounds like my grandmother breaking wind.

The lighting seems rather dull, except for maybe the blue lighting from the combine spotlights on the distant buildings, but I couldn't tell ya what time of day it was. Just very generic.

There is plenty of debris to make the place feel abandoned, and it seems properly placed. The decals are a nice addition and help to break up the redundancy. Although, some of the Combine decals and poster decals seem to be too close to the ground to be logical.

The gameplay by itself though is very, very hard. Even with an rpg clip of 9, and rockets strewn about the map, it just seems very unlikely that it's fair to the player to have to endure all those enemies one after the other without a break.

Overall I like how this map is progressing, and you're right, the npc's are a nice and needed addition, otherwise the map feels dead. I think adding an appropriate city soudscape will help that even more, as well as some interesting lighting. It needs a good story to belong to. Give it a reason to exist! Good job, keep it up!




Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202



Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Flynn on Mon Jun 18th at 11:39am 2007

Thank you "Beetle" and "Riven".

? quoting Riven
I have Half-Life 2 and it shows up as a missing texture as well; might want to re-check your pack again.

I open the "PakRat" program, I then select "Courtyard.bsp" which has a file named "Courtyard.vmt" in it (the texture file) and it has a box with a tick by it. This should mean it has worked, no?

? quoting Riven
The npc's work fine, except maybe the strider, who can't interact with the player all that well because it's trapped behind a wall, and the player can play in the rest of the map without it noticing him.

I dunno what you mean here, it is not supposed to come into the main playing area.

? quoting Riven

The area looks fine, but you still need to buildcubemaps in console. I don't care if it's just for a test release, all released maps should have 'em built.

I did build the cubemaps, so dunno what is wrong here.

? quoting Riven

I think the map needs an introduction. How did the player character get there? Did he wake up in an alleyway with an HEV suit on?

Yes I am gonna introduce this in a text file in the WinRar file. Ideally I would like to do it within the game, but I have read tutorials and it sounds like even more hassle with extra files, so I am not sure about what I am gonna do at this point. But a simple notepad file will be my fallback.

? quoting Riven

The area looks almost believable and the architecture is nice, but I'm unsure of what exactly this place is. For example: there are tons of explosive barrels, yet, it looks like there are enough storefronts, and apartment building fronts leading around a central square, like a park. A park with explosive barrels? I've never heard of that, and there doesn't seem to be any indirect reason to have them there except for gameplay reason, which shouldn't be the case.

Yes, this is gonna be covered when I finish the map in a text file. Basically, the Combine have closed off this abandoned area of the town to exterminate Gordon without too much fuss (and ppl knowing) but Barney went through there before and got wind of it so he hid some ammo and healthkits there and he is gonna rescue you at the end.

? quoting Riven

I think you should also change the soundscape. It's too repetitive and doesn't sound like anything. I'm supposing it's supposed to sound like distant wind, but just sounds like my grandmother breaking wind.

I'll try to find another ambient to add to that one, and turn the volume down on it. I still like it as a backing noise though

? quoting Riven
The lighting seems rather dull, except for maybe the blue lighting from the combine spotlights on the distant buildings, but I couldn't tell ya what time of day it was. Just very generic.

I tried to get an env_sun in there but I dunno how it works. I have put one in the skybox and the actual map, neither one works. Also, the sky name is "sky_day02_10" so I did try and change it to something interesting.

? quoting Riven

There is plenty of debris to make the place feel abandoned, and it seems properly placed. The decals are a nice addition and help to break up the redundancy. Although, some of the Combine decals and poster decals seem to be too close to the ground to be logical.

I'll move some of these up, then.

? quoting Riven

The gameplay by itself though is very, very hard. Even with an rpg clip of 9, and rockets strewn about the map, it just seems very unlikely that it's fair to the player to have to endure all those enemies one after the other without a break.

Well it has to be convincing considering the story That is a cop-out, I know I may consider removing a few Combine soldiers at the chopper scene.

? quote:

Overall I like how this map is progressing, and you're right, the npc's are a nice and needed addition, otherwise the map feels dead. I think adding an appropriate city soudscape will help that even more, as well as some interesting lighting. It needs a good story to belong to. Give it a reason to exist! Good job, keep it up!

Yup, all these things have been considered. The story has already been mapped out; and I will change the ambient sound as well and then try to get an env_sun working

Edit:

I have added an env_sun entity successfully.

I have added two more ambient_generic sounds using the "city_beacon_loop1" sound and the "city_rumble_loop1" sound. I have also changed the wind sound's volume from 5 to 3.

I have moved a few Combine posters up into more viewable positions.




Just Kidding

Just Kidding



Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Beetle on Mon Jun 18th at 2:25pm 2007

Using PakRat apparently works different ways for different people. I recently had teh same problem. Pakrat wasn't including certain textures. In the vmt file try taking out the "/" make if there is one in the path at the very front of the file like:

Code:
"lightmappedgeneric"
{
 "$basetexture" "/cncr04s/gravel/cityrbbl1_revised"
 "$surfaceprop" "gravel"
 "$keywords" "gravel"
}

That / at the basetexture beginning shouldn't be there. I took it out and it fixed it, but I've also heard some people can include the texture with it still there. Lemme know if I'm not being clear.

Should be:

Code:
"lightmappedgeneric"
{
 "$basetexture" "cncr04s/gravel/cityrbbl1_revised"
 "$surfaceprop" "gravel"
 "$keywords" "gravel"
}

Oh, and a good way to test it is to temporarily change the name of whatever materials folder has the texture so it is as if you don't have the texture, and then try to play the map. Make sure to change the name back though.





Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Flynn on Mon Jun 18th at 3:59pm 2007

This is the contents of the .vmt file:

"WorldVertexTransition"
{
"$basetexture" "nature/grassfloor002a"
"$basetexture2" "nature/gravelfloor003a"
"%keywords" "courtyard"
}




Just Kidding

Just Kidding



Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Beetle on Mon Jun 18th at 4:07pm 2007

Oh well. It must be something else then. You should just hit auto in PakRat , and assuming the format is correct it should do it all for you.




Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Riven on Mon Jun 18th at 5:24pm 2007

I'm not sure what the problem with Pakrat is, perhaps someone else here can help you on that one. However, for the cubemaps, make sure you've already entered sv_cheats 1 BEFORE entering buildcubemaps. Otherwise it won't save the cubmaps to the .bsp after their built.

It's ok to keep that original wind loop there on a lower volume, but adding more ambient_generics are not going to make it better. You should use the env_soundscape entities. Their perfect for this job as they don't always just loop the same sound over and over again. Here is a list of all the soundscapes in HL2 with some descriptions here. And here are some of the best tutorials on soundscapes that I have found on the net over at Interlopers. Their not hard at all to use, they just have a lot of possibilities, so the tuts are a little long... [EDIT] The Interloper's tuts show you actually how to make your own custom soundscapes, If you're interested...

? quoting Flynn
"Ideally I would like to do it within the game, but I have read tutorials and it sounds like even more hassle with extra files, so I am not sure about what I am gonna do at this point. But a simple notepad file will be my fallback."

To give the player an introduction shouldn't be hard at all. At least a simple fade in with some text showing the name of the map, the setting, and why you're there... No new files for that beyond the .bsp.

For lighting, I don't mean add an env_sun. That's just an effect and has no function on the actual lighting of the level. However, I do ask you to tweak with the lighting in your light_environment. But don't take the env_sun out of the level, it should be a nice touch any way. check this list out over at the VDC. It shows the lighting angles and parameters used for their respected skybox textures in Half-Life 2. It's a good starting point.

The strider? I simply mean that it probably should either: be allowed to enter the main playing field, or, be allowed to be just a side "effect" that the player can't destroy and have it just keep walking on it's rosy way down the street. If it's supposed to shoot at the player, then for this map, it should be able to enter the main playing field. Otherwise it feels too much like a gameplay element and not a coincidence. I was able to kill it with it not ever noticing me (or shooting at me for that matter).

I personally would never leave the story up to the .txt file. Most people don't read 'em. The story should be self explanatory within the .bsp. Whether that be through some NPCs talking to the palyer character, or text scrolling across the screen like a message, or perhaps add your own sounds with your voice recorded telling the player what's gonna happen and who you are. There's all kinds of ways to do this, but if you wan't to make your level feel "real" then the appropriate thing would be to pay as much attention to story as you do the architecture and scenery. After all, If you wanted to, you could just describe what the buildings look like in the .txt and just have huge uninteresting blocks take their place in the actual .bsp.

Please, pay the same attention to detail with your story as you did with the scene.

-It's improving by the minute! Keep going!




Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202



Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Flynn on Mon Jun 18th at 5:59pm 2007

Riven, what do you think about pauses for a few seconds before the action starts up again? And I could fill in a couple segments with reflective music <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">


Just Kidding

Just Kidding



Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Riven on Mon Jun 18th at 6:46pm 2007

Pauses are a good start, I also think that there needs to be some other ways of getting more health in there. Perhpas have a door open to a running zombie and after the player kills the zombie, he looks in the entrance that it came from and finds tons of health kits.


Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202



Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Flynn on Tue Jun 19th at 12:25pm 2007

Nope, zombies don't fit the teme.


Just Kidding

Just Kidding



Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Flynn on Wed Jun 20th at 3:55pm 2007

? quoting Riven
I'm not sure what the problem with Pakrat is, perhaps someone else here can help you on that one. However, for the cubemaps, make sure you've already entered sv_cheats 1 BEFORE entering buildcubemaps. Otherwise it won't save the cubmaps to the .bsp after their built.

Holy crap, I had no idea I had to enable cheats to make them save in the .bsp.

? quoting Riven
It's ok to keep that original wind loop there on a lower volume, but adding more ambient_generics are not going to make it better. You should use the env_soundscape entities. Their perfect for this job as they don't always just loop the same sound over and over again. Here is a list of all the soundscapes in HL2 with some descriptions here. And here are some of the best tutorials on soundscapes that I have found on the net over at Interlopers. Their not hard at all to use, they just have a lot of possibilities, so the tuts are a little long... [EDIT] The Interloper's tuts show you actually how to make your own custom soundscapes, If you're interested...

Okay I'll put it on 1

? quoting Riven
To give the player an introduction shouldn't be hard at all. At least a simple fade in with some text showing the name of the map, the setting, and why you're there... No new files for that beyond the .bsp.

Have you ever used the game_text entity? If you have, then you will know that it is very limiting, and certainly not appropiate for providing a full story leading up to a map. It only allows for a medium sentence worth of information, or 255 bytes each one. Also, it doesn't wrap text. So you have to break everything up into loads of different sentences, which is simply not practical.

? quoting Riven
For lighting, I don't mean add an env_sun. That's just an effect and has no function on the actual lighting of the level. However, I do ask you to tweak with the lighting in your light_environment. But don't take the env_sun out of the level, it should be a nice touch any way. check this list out over at the VDC. It shows the lighting angles and parameters used for their respected skybox textures in Half-Life 2. It's a good starting point.

Yes, I am using a particular sky and appropiate lighting settings.

? quoting Riven
The strider? I simply mean that it probably should either: be allowed to enter the main playing field, or, be allowed to be just a side "effect" that the player can't destroy and have it just keep walking on it's rosy way down the street. If it's supposed to shoot at the player, then for this map, it should be able to enter the main playing field. Otherwise it feels too much like a gameplay element and not a coincidence. I was able to kill it with it not ever noticing me (or shooting at me for that matter).

Maybe you were testing and had notarget on? I have never ever experienced this before in all my playtesting(and I have done alot). As for an "effect" that would be contradictory to the theme of the map. Edit: I have added manhacks to the fray, just incase you have any doubts;)

? quoting Riven
I personally would never leave the story up to the .txt file. Most people don't read 'em. The story should be self explanatory within the .bsp. Whether that be through some NPCs talking to the palyer character, or text scrolling across the screen like a message, or perhaps add your own sounds with your voice recorded telling the player what's gonna happen and who you are. There's all kinds of ways to do this, but if you wan't to make your level feel "real" then the appropriate thing would be to pay as much attention to story as you do the architecture and scenery. After all, If you wanted to, you could just describe what the buildings look like in the .txt and just have huge uninteresting blocks take their place in the actual .bsp.

Well if they don't read a file aptly named "story" then that is their own stupid fault. I know what you mean, these hyperactive kids download things all in a frenzy and skip straight to the action. It is purely their own fault if they ignore things.

? quoting Riven
Please, pay the same attention to detail with your story as you did with the scene.

I will. I have the perfect basis, and from then on it will be a breeze.

Would you mind playtesting it again?




Just Kidding

Just Kidding



Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Flynn on Thu Jun 21st at 9:21pm 2007

Okay I have made the following changes:

Now you must bust the Strider by utilising explosive barrels instead of the R.P.G.

5 Manhacks added to compliment the Strider.

I have added some secret supplies on the ledge of a building (your job to find out which one <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif"> )

Added 30 second pauses inbetween the action.

Here is the .bsp:

http://upload2.net/page/download/F8Ztc451xZTJ1j9/CourtYard.bsp.html

I can't be bothered with all that WinRar nonsense, sorry.




Just Kidding

Just Kidding



Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Finger on Thu Jun 21st at 9:57pm 2007

"I can't be bothered with all that WinRar nonsense, sorry."

......

Whether you realize it or not, Snarkpit members taking their time to critique and help you with your map, do so at some loss of their own personal time. The least you can do is accomodate us with a zipped file - if you can't be bothered with that, then I'm afraid you will find many who can't be bothered with downloading. Right click...compress to Zip; how hard is that? <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">





Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Flynn on Thu Jun 21st at 11:04pm 2007

What is the point? It's only one file...

Edit: anyway, playtesting is fun.




Just Kidding

Just Kidding



Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Finger on Thu Jun 21st at 11:52pm 2007

The point is, it's a courteous gesture, if nothing else. Plus, Bsp files zip up quite a bit.

Sure, playtesting is fun...but so is working on my own level, and I've only got about 2 hours out of the day to do that. The people who have been here a while, who can give you real quality advice, have played so many maps that after a while it isn't so much 'fun' as it is an effort to help YOU improve YOUR map.

Where the hell is Orpheus, the file size nazi, when we need him?

Anyway, I'll download and give some advice when I get a chance....but do us a favor, and please 'be bothered' to do those little things that make it easy for us to help you.





Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Flynn on Fri Jun 22nd at 12:01am 2007

I don't get it apart from the compression part of it only one and a half megabytes! I mean-who can't download one and a half megabytes!? Also, it makes more trouble for you as well, because you download it, then the WinZip/WinRar thing comes in your face saying how many days you have used it and stuff, and then you need to go into it, find your hl2maps folder (Opening alot of directorys which is bothersome) and then unzip it into there! When you download the .bsp you can save it straight to your maps directory! Please tell me how zipping it is courteous. I'm all for that but I simply don't see how it is. I for one am always caught out when I download a map then it wants me to unzip everything. It always catches me offguard.


Just Kidding

Just Kidding



Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Naklajat on Fri Jun 22nd at 2:06am 2007

1) Not everyone has broadband, believe it or not.
2) Some people have monthly transfer limits, for them every MB counts.
3a) It's the generally accepted way to distribute a map pretty much everywhere in the FPS mapping community as a whole.
3b) It shows you're not a lazy bum or dense as a post and critiquing your map will likely be worthwhile.


=o



Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Stadric on Fri Jun 22nd at 4:26am 2007

Thank heaven nothing changed while I was gone!
*relieved sigh*

As has been said, zip it. Think of all the poor children in the world that would love to have your internet connection. I swear there should be a "the more you know" poster for teh internetz.


Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying



Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Flynn on Fri Jun 22nd at 11:43am 2007

? quoting Baron Von Snickers
1) Not everyone has broadband, believe it or not.
2) Some people have monthly transfer limits, for them every MB counts.
3a) It's the generally accepted way to distribute a map pretty much everywhere in the FPS mapping community as a whole.
3b) It shows you're not a lazy bum or dense as a post and critiquing your map will likely be worthwhile.
1. Everyone except Orpheus at the SnarkPit does, and he doesn't map for H-L 2 anyway so...
2. Okay, point taken.
3a. I'll have to take your word on this.
3b. Well there is no way a dumb person can make a map so that is a moot point.

Okay, now I have added the .vmt file with the .bsp file and overwritten the original .bsp file with the one that I added the .vmt to. It has the .vmt file in it, but there is no tick in the box next to it, even though I hit "Auto" in PakRat.

Well even thought it is totally pointless...

I have zipped it...

Here you go:

http://s21.quicksharing.com/v/3456285/courtyard.zip.html

Happy now?




Just Kidding

Just Kidding



Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by Stadric on Fri Jun 22nd at 5:51pm 2007

Not happy, just less unhappy. Downloading now...


Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying



Quote
 Re: Courtyard
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Jun 27th at 8:11pm 2007

First, I'd like to say, compared to the early, early maps you posted some time ago, this is a HUGE improvement. The architecture looks pretty nice (although standard HL2) and the entity work is pretty well done. <br> <br>But still, there's way too much missing. <br> <br>- I was greeted by a big, pink error texture beneath the tree, probably a custom one not included with the BSP. Some files mentioned in the readme were nowhere to be found in the ZIP file, also noone needs the VMF. (google for a program called packrat, it lets you include all files in the BSP) <br>- cubemaps aren't run or existing. Unacceptable for any map release. <br><a href="http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Cubemaps" target="_blank">http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Cubemaps</a> <br>- Gamplay is WAY too hard. It was frustrating. Remember to multiply the felt difficulty of your own game experience by a factor of 3 or more, as others have no idea where the goodies are hidden, what enemies to look for ect. ect. <br>- It's a friggin' killbox! A SP killbox. That makes it feel like a testing ground for someone who learns to map (what is probably the case) but you need to hide it better. I felt very constrained in there. If you had at least added a few more height levels, cover ect. it would have been more fun. But add some progression next time. <br> <br>Nice demonstration of your improved mapping skills, but the final product feels too much like a &quot;test&quot; map.




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