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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by Juim on Sun Oct 12th at 6:34pm 2008

This is a a discussion topic for the map "dm_ff_stinger_b7" by Juim which can be found here

Started mapping again. Don\'t have a clear idea where I\'m going yet, but it\'s starting to take some form. I Think I\'m going to focus more on pure DM and playability rather than trying to make a real kind of environment.Tired of factories,cities,etc.













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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by Gwil on Sun Oct 12th at 6:48pm 2008

Looks good, I see you are still in love with curvy walls smiley It reminds me of a Q3A style layout - good to focus on pure DM and playability I feel - my only concern would be the open nature, something a lot of the HL weapons don't lend themselves to (IMO at least)



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by G4MER on Mon Oct 13th at 2:25am 2008

I like the architecture, and design. Not your same old Dust map.. or City 17 environment.

Looks like fun.. is this one complete? Would this work for the GUNGAME? I know a server who would enjoy this map.. but its a GUNGAME server.



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by Le Chief on Mon Oct 13th at 3:53am 2008

Some solid screenshots you have displayed there. Looking at the screenshots, it seems you are heading in the direction of making a Quake/Abstract styled map.

Seems to be fine at the moment, height variation is in check, can't really see any problems coming up at this stage, keep the screenshots coming.

Quoting Juim
I Think I'm going to focus more on pure DM and playability rather than trying to make a real kind of environment.Tired of factories,cities,etc.


Well than make something else, there are plenty of themes out there, you can even invent your own!

[ Edited by aaron_da_killa on Mon Oct 13th 2008 at 1:27pm - total edits: 1]



Aaron's Stuff



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by Juim on Tue Oct 21st at 12:50am 2008

Started work on the lower area.One screenie today, very early on, but feels good so far.


[ Edited by juim on Tue Oct 21st 2008 at 12:52am - total edits: 1]




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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by haymaker on Tue Oct 21st at 2:32am 2008

Looks good Juim, are those railings just placeholders? Replacing them with func_detail solves a couple weapon issues and may let you have more freedom with your texture aesthetic, ie not so grimy-hl2.

Also I know you have a monster machine there ( judging by your screens of striker ), watch your visblocking for the little guys like me!



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by G4MER on Tue Oct 21st at 2:55am 2008

OK, its Official.. I hate you. WOW man that looks awesome.. great tunnel there.



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by Le Chief on Thu Oct 23rd at 4:20am 2008

I agree with Muhnay, the tunnel looks pretty sweet.

Have you come up with any ideas on a theme for the map yet?



Aaron's Stuff



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by Juim on Thu Feb 5th at 7:15pm 2009

Not mapping as much as I'd like, but I still poke away at this one when I can. Also taking my time as little inspirations seem farther apart on this, probably due to the haphaxard nature of the layout. Anywho, here's a few more screenies:



some no clip shots. I added some glass hallways around the sides (partly to keep people within the structure).



More from the other side. I also moved the glass tunnel outside and up top. Seemed a bit more conducive to appearance up there.



And finally a current shot from down below. I am almost to the texturing stage.Lets hope I can keep moving on this one.



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by haymaker on Fri Feb 6th at 4:22am 2009

Lookin good Juim. I like that last screen, reminds me of the LD control room a bit.

One thing with the long glass hallways, they may become a discouraging way to go because of the distance/dynamic ratio...what I mean is, if you introduced a little "popout" like a wider, higher zone in the middle, it would give incentive to get halfway and then decide, kinda. I'd also be concerned about how the tools are gonna cut up the leafs around the solid curves, but that's controllable with hints as you know.

I don't know what you have in mind for a texture theme but remember that the less number of textures you have the better it will run. Looking at your brushwork I can see all kinds of possibilities for detailing with just your awesome lighting skills, so many shadow lines and pockets here and there. Lighting is the cheapest way to detail and here I think you've got some real opportunities.

Keep it up!



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by G4MER on Fri Feb 6th at 5:25am 2009

To quote a Robotical man.. WOWZERS! It is looking really Good!



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by reaper47 on Wed Feb 11th at 5:02pm 2009

Mmmm... curvy!

More curves! I see some hard edged corners, and they stick out like a sore thumb. Make them, curvy, too!



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by Juim on Tue Mar 3rd at 11:38pm 2009

Just a bump. I replaced most of the pics in the first post (scroll back up to the top please). They represent the map as it is today. Thanks to a small physical setback, I managed to get in about 70 hours of mapping in the last ten days or so, and the map is starting to really take shape. I am not releasing any of the betas (yet), but you can PM me for a link to beta 3 if you like.I could use some feedback. I will have it posted first thing tomorrow morning(wednesday 03/04).
Thanks for having a look.
(Gwil, could you delete the last two pic links in the first post please?. Apparently I cant edit any posts after 30 minutes in any forum here, hehehe).



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by Le Chief on Wed Mar 4th at 1:27am 2009

Looking good Juim. To be honest, I can't really think of much else to say going off screenshots since your not aiming for any sort of defined environment it seems and as you said.

I think that some of those interior/sheltered spaces are too dark and need to be brighter. Also, there is too much concrete and orange in there for me to handle, I think you need to add a bit of contrast in there such as metal or wood textures (anything but more concrete) and some textures on the green/blue side of the spectrum, it seems overly orange/yellow/red to me at the moment.

You could probably get away with leaving the light environment colour as it is and making those interior lights whiteish/light green/light blue.

And ofcourse you need to have background surroundings, you can't just have the level floating in a skybox like this.

Also, look at this.


Aaron's Stuff



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by haymaker on Wed Mar 4th at 2:46am 2009

Those are beauty screens, the light fixtures bring it together nicely. What a difference a few hours makes! ( jk, I saw yr other post about 70 hours. Thanks for the credit there btw ) Also I wouldn't belittle your "physical setback" so, but kudos for making sure the show goes on.

Love that first shot especially, I can see the player movement in that area clearly. I agree with most of Aaron's points, though I like the way the basement floor turned out. You could probably get away with a few vent decals or a strip of that metalwall texture withe vent on it, here and there, without killing the fps. Especially in the basement, where it was the strongest on that runaround the other day. Maybe your posts could use a texture experiment too.

Aaron, that unreal shot is pure cinema, love that guy's work. dm_tobor remains one of the most fascinating maps I've come across. Although that LOD is way too advanced for hl2dm (98887 triangles!!!) it's cool to see the artistic approach.



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by Juim on Tue Mar 10th at 12:30am 2009

OK beta 5 tested very well on the FF clan linux server. No crashes, and decent performance.I need some feedback now, as I am doing some minor architecture tweaks, haymakers speed ladders(where I can, a couple of them are too long I think), and a 3d skybox(already working on b6). So here's a download:
http://www.brdstudio.net/ffmember/juim/dm_ff_stinger_b5.zip
Any and all feedback would be appreciated.




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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by haymaker on Wed Mar 11th at 1:40am 2009

Congrats on getting to this playable state! Cool to see a map so emphasised on curvature. Some quick impressions

<BR>
<BR>
^ There's a few of these 1-unit lips that will become major frustrations when facing down ar2 fire or something. Clipses!

<BR>
<BR>
^ A simple displacement in a 3d skybox here could fade out to sky colour fog, would add about 2 fps load probably
<BR>

<BR>
^ Managed to get stuck here between the rail and the ceiling

<BR>
<BR>
^ Match the light fixture to the light glow, try setting "rendercolor" to the light colour. Here I'll mention the use of sprites/ point_spots/ fog, I know there are not present in your quest for performance but I think you could afford some judicious use. That is when you figure out what's hitting the average in this corner.
<BR>

<BR>
You may have to fool around with areaportals or something, this is passable but way below the rest of the map.
<BR>

<BR>
^ The lampstand seems totally incongruent with the rest of the modus-operandi in that it's static, makes no "logical" sense. Plus it gets in the way. You may be able to change that light to a single dynamic light that dies when the lampstand gets picked up, the frames are good right there and if you keep the dynamic lightmaps to a small cone it wouldn't hurt too much.

I can't comment on the weap placement or spwanpoints, except slams in this map are a power item, I would make them much harder to get, especially with teleports around.

Coming along very nicely!



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by haymaker on Wed Mar 11th at 1:43am 2009

OT I put those <BR> lines in there attempting to get "preview" to work, they did for that but now it looks way diff, as does all the formatting...I would say preview needs some work?



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by Le Chief on Fri Mar 13th at 5:23am 2009

Not bad. The layout is pretty cool, it certainly offers the opportunity for many interesting scenarios to come up in gameplay.

I still think there is too much concrete and orange, I'm not sure what your feelings are towards all the concrete and orange lighting but I think that there is too much of it, I certainly think that the map would benefit from a bit of contrast (more than what you have). And some of those interior spaces like I said before where a bit too dark for a multiplayer game where it is likely that players will have no flash light.

I agree with what haymaker says about the light stand, it feels in the way and seems like a bad design choice to me and infact I think that whole couch/lamp thing you got going there is pretty pointless at the moment (we are yet to see what your going to do with it) and detracts from that space.


Aaron's Stuff



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 Re: dm_ff_stinger_b7
Posted by Juim on Thu Mar 19th at 6:17pm 2009

Thank you for the walkthrough Hay, and your comments as well Aaron. Couple of things. First, I am currently working on the 3d skybox:


As you can see it's starting to take shape. I am also taking into consideration your comments Aaron, about the coloring. I have changed skyboxes and re-done the light_env colors to facilitate a more eveningy kinda look:


This will also mean lighting the upper decks(as you can see I have already started this process.
Hay, I have a couple of questions about your comments.
1: Could you please be more specific about the skybox/fog thing?
and,
/2: I am using prop_statics for those fixtures you referred to and I am not familiar with the rendercolor process. Alittle help there as well.

/I would love to send someone the map for optimizing, as I can never seem to wrap my head around hints/area_portals. I have tried them in several places where I see the engine drawing way too much of the map, but they seem to have no effect or very little at most.


Quote from Nietzsche....God is dead
Quote from God....Nietzsche is dead




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