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[map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
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 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by gtamike_TSGK on Wed Apr 1st at 11:15pm 2009


This is a a discussion topic for the map "dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2" by gtamike_TSGK which can be found here

Map description:

Name: dm_attack_house_tsgk

Autor: gtamike_TSGK

Let me know what you think of the map feedback will be nice. smiley

Fill free to add it to your server.

About

The map is a normal looking house map.

You can choose to fight on the ground outside and inside of the house. You can also use some of the house roofs to get around. The gameplay is fast and you can’t get lost if you tried. The house is a very good size for 1 VS 1 or even a team match (theres 32 well placed player spawns).

There’s many escape routes in the map doors, vents, windows and teleporters. The weapon and items layout is well balanced so the players has to move round to collect them instead of staying in one area.

There are 3 traps in the map one is in the super charger room (a spike trap) and the other is a pool trap, the 3rd trap you can find. The traps are for greedy players that like to always have max suit, looking at the trap will make them think twice about going in.

The lighting map took along time to get just right. Most of the textures and models are custom. Some of the hl2 textures (like plaster) I have improved with grain detail like used in ep2, also a nice render on wood floor, tiles and white wall.

There are some other small details in the map like playable radio, moving fish, swimming pool, toilet flush etc... that gives a nice house fill to the map. There are also some small easter eggs/secrets in the map, again does not change gameplay but giving the player a house fill and more fun to the map.

Thanks to map beta testers, Balle_TSGK, StonedCabbage_TSGK, Shimmy_TSGK and Osiris_TSGK.

Have Fun

Map screenshots:

Screenshots for:




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 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by G4MER on Thu Apr 2nd at 4:30am 2009

It looks like a rip off of a CSS Orange Map I play on.



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 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by gtamike_TSGK on Fri Apr 3rd at 8:54pm 2009

Quoting Muhnay
It looks like a rip off of a CSS Orange Map I play on.


Thanks for your useless comment, smiley this will help in no way. smiley


http://gamebanana.com/members/215600
https://www.youtube.com/c/gtamikesvideos




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 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by Le Chief on Sat Apr 4th at 1:32am 2009

Quoting gtamike_TSGK
Quoting Muhnay
It looks like a rip off of a CSS Orange Map I play on.


Thanks for your useless comment, smiley this will help in no way. smiley


Hehe, I'll download this and give it a go, looks interesting enough! Although, this does look a bit familiar.


Aaron's Stuff



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 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by haymaker on Sat Apr 4th at 8:27am 2009

exploding melons yum! Lots of creative ideas in here as usual GTAmIke.


For some reason running thru this I totally ignore the architecture, which I have to say is

pretty rudimentary for anyone that looks. But you've successfully taken the focus off of

that, which is the point of this map in a way. I like that telport chain, I did that once

but nixed it because of vulnerability, but your solution is good. Does 'booster' actually do

anything or is it just hp? Aslo the beachball is prop awesomemess. I like the nade-shield

over the supercharger but it may be overkill.


Crits;... too many func_breakables; one too many narrow hallways it seems; clumsy play

boundaries; can't acess main roof!; performance degrades as map plays on, prob due to

breakables and the portals there; those busted crates work for gameplay but are just a bit

too far-fetched ( wtf is going on outside the wall there ); wierd rainbow graphic anomaly

above nade crate; catatonic feline is creepy; hot tub is useless; window headers screw up

the jump over the sill; matress is useless and laggy; time to ditch that brushwork sig and

make a texture; phys props are inconsistent in behaviour...


I like the creative thought here, but this is way below your last release in terms of

quality. I find css a boring-ass game so i can't comment on the originality either.




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 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by gtamike_TSGK on Sat Apr 4th at 12:12pm 2009

Quoting haymaker
exploding melons yum! Lots of creative ideas in here as usual GTAmIke.


For some reason running thru this I totally ignore the architecture, which I have to say is

pretty rudimentary for anyone that looks. But you've successfully taken the focus off of

that, which is the point of this map in a way. I like that telport chain, I did that once

but nixed it because of vulnerability, but your solution is good. Does 'booster' actually do

anything or is it just hp? Aslo the beachball is prop awesomemess. I like the nade-shield

over the supercharger but it may be overkill.


Crits;... too many func_breakables; one too many narrow hallways it seems; clumsy play

boundaries; can't acess main roof!; performance degrades as map plays on, prob due to

breakables and the portals there; those busted crates work for gameplay but are just a bit

too far-fetched ( wtf is going on outside the wall there ); wierd rainbow graphic anomaly

above nade crate; catatonic feline is creepy; hot tub is useless; window headers screw up

the jump over the sill; matress is useless and laggy; time to ditch that brushwork sig and

make a texture; phys props are inconsistent in behaviour...


I like the creative thought here, but this is way below your last release in terms of

quality. I find css a boring-ass game so i can't comment on the originality either.


Thanks for feedback, the booster is HP.

The 2nd roof question as many people ask about (highest roof)

Theres 2 levels of roofs also garage on the map the first one you can go on because its not too much of a disadvantage. Players can see you and they have a good chance of killing you. I have tryed the 2nd higher roof but its really too easy to camp their and way too much to cover/hind space.

E.G. go on the top of the 2nd roof with mag quicky look at ground shoot someone run back to th middle of the roof to not be seen and keep going this, also use gravity gun to get more ammo.

That gameplay Would Of Been bad so the 2nd roof is blocked off for all players/campers. (The map is designed to be fun and fast gamplay) smiley


http://gamebanana.com/members/215600
https://www.youtube.com/c/gtamikesvideos




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 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by Juim on Sat Apr 4th at 3:51pm 2009

Well, I've been doing some searching, and I found this:

Pic on FPS Banana, compared to this:

of your map. The differences are distinct, yet they are vaguely similiar. The problem here also, is that "house" style maps have been done to death since HL1 was a little baby. The main problem being (IMO) that the engine basically has to draw almost everything within the fence line at once, all the time. Performance is a must if you hope to recieve good comments and server hosting where house style maps are concerned.I'll download them both and have a run around later today and get back to you.



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 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by G4MER on Sat Apr 4th at 4:37pm 2009

Let me Apologize.. under a lot of stress recently.. so my patience is thin.. even more so when I see a blatant rip off of another map... I don't tolerate thieves well, and even more so when smart mouth punks who post others works as there stuff, and then call comments useless. So I must apologize for thinking your a complete and utter useless mapper, and human being.. I must apologize for being way to harsh and judgmental, I must, because that is just not who I am. And the Pit deserves better from me than cheep attacks and harsh words. So I apologize to the community here. I am Sorry.. now Mapper go out and map something new and original.. well original as one can get these days with so much crap out there... and show us what you really got. Here is some love..

smiley smiley smiley smiley smiley smiley smiley smiley smiley smiley



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 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by gtamike_TSGK on Sat Apr 4th at 5:50pm 2009

I would never copy anyones map, plus I don't even like or even play cs/css. smiley

If anything dm_attack_house_tsgk is a little bit based on my older house map dm_combat_house_tsgk.
Link
http://www.snarkpit.net/index.php?s=maps&game=2&mod=23&map=3172

All I can say is download and try dm_attack_house_tsgk and look around, my older house link above also if you want a look around.

Is not common for chairs and tables to be by a pool? and boxs for cover in games?


http://gamebanana.com/members/215600
https://www.youtube.com/c/gtamikesvideos




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 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by Riven on Sat Apr 4th at 7:31pm 2009

I'll definitely comment on the map as soon as I get a chance to play it!

@Muhnay: Thanks for apologizing. Let's make this map better by critiquing it!

-I'll post mine later with some screenshots and lots of comments! -Boy, I haven't done a big critique in a while, this ought to be fun! I look forward to playing your map gtamike!


Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202



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 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by gtamike_TSGK on Sat Apr 4th at 8:42pm 2009

Ok thanks smiley


http://gamebanana.com/members/215600
https://www.youtube.com/c/gtamikesvideos




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 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by Le Chief on Sat Apr 4th at 10:22pm 2009

+ Layout and pacing
+ Secrets/Easter Eggs/Traps
+ Height Variation

- Aesthetics
- Ambient sound
- Lack of background detail (such as 3D skybox) and non playable spaces

I played this map yesterday. This is of those "fun" maps. This map certainly reflects level design skill but I don't think its quite on par in regards to design and aesthetics and certainly ambient sound of other "good maps".

But hey, I can imagine myself having fun with this map, and that's the most important thing right? I think it has pretty good pacing, you can kind of walk around the house and through it plus walk on the roofs and through the second story as well as the basement so it certainly has height variation and pacing so that's a plus. There are quite a few secrets and things to play with also like the typical gate over the pool, walls with no collisions with secret stuff behind them and exploding soft drink cans etc.

The things that this map most lack have to do with aesthetics and overall design and I don't really think there is much point in talking about them because I don't think it matters too much for this map.

I will mention ambient sound however. Ambient sound is really important to me and this map totally lacked it! Games aren't just a visual medium, they are an audio medium also and you have the potential to multiply the player's experience. Some people even think that sound design should be more of a focus than visuals and detail of the level. Instead the lack of sound is detracting from this map and all I could hear where my weapon sounds and a concrete walking sound.. even when I was on the grass. No matter what, doesn't matter if its a kill box level, at least make the effort to toss in one sound for the overall level.

Anyways, its a decent map, the fun is there which is the most important thing, just make an effort to add ambient sound next time and keep on improving on your aesthetics and design mojo, this seems to be your best looking map so far! Keep it up!


Aaron's Stuff



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 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by G4MER on Sat Apr 4th at 10:58pm 2009

Oh if they ripped your map off, then I am very sorry for making that claim about you.. That is messed up man.. and I am truly sorry for my mistake. I don't like when people steal from others.. for me its like if you were Picasso, and I came along and painted something just like what you had.. that is how I see maps as works of art, and when someone steals your hard work.. I wanna go all HULK on their butts. So if they took from you, your ideas and hard work.. then shame on them and let me redirect my scorn and anger in their direction.

Again sorry for my thin temper.. I just opened my very own game store in El Paso, and had a couple unpleasant surprises.. I have one thing to be happy about though.. today I have been married 17 years! YAY!



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 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by Le Chief on Sat Apr 4th at 11:04pm 2009

Quoting Muhnay
I have one thing to be happy about though.. today I have been married 17 years! YAY!


Congratz! Check your private messages if you haven't already.


Aaron's Stuff



Quote
 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by gtamike_TSGK on Sun Apr 5th at 1:05am 2009

Quoting aaron_da_killa
+ Layout and pacing
+ Secrets/Easter Eggs/Traps
+ Height Variation

- Aesthetics
- Ambient sound
- Lack of background detail (such as 3D skybox) and non playable spaces

I played this map yesterday. This is of those "fun" maps. This map certainly reflects level design skill but I don't think its quite on par in regards to design and aesthetics and certainly ambient sound of other "good maps".

But hey, I can imagine myself having fun with this map, and that's the most important thing right? I think it has pretty good pacing, you can kind of walk around the house and through it plus walk on the roofs and through the second story as well as the basement so it certainly has height variation and pacing so that's a plus. There are quite a few secrets and things to play with also like the typical gate over the pool, walls with no collisions with secret stuff behind them and exploding soft drink cans etc.

The things that this map most lack have to do with aesthetics and overall design and I don't really think there is much point in talking about them because I don't think it matters too much for this map.

I will mention ambient sound however. Ambient sound is really important to me and this map totally lacked it! Games aren't just a visual medium, they are an audio medium also and you have the potential to multiply the player's experience. Some people even think that sound design should be more of a focus than visuals and detail of the level. Instead the lack of sound is detracting from this map and all I could hear where my weapon sounds and a concrete walking sound.. even when I was on the grass. No matter what, doesn't matter if its a kill box level, at least make the effort to toss in one sound for the overall level.

Anyways, its a decent map, the fun is there which is the most important thing, just make an effort to add ambient sound next time and keep on improving on your aesthetics and design mojo, this seems to be your best looking map so far! Keep it up!


Thanks for your feedback. smiley
Have you got any ideas of what sounds would be good for this map?
(sounds are not by best department)

Off the top of my head the sounds in the map are the teleporters, toilet, a hl2 song of the radio, doors, the 2 trap kill sounds, the fire extinger and sound for buttons.


http://gamebanana.com/members/215600
https://www.youtube.com/c/gtamikesvideos




Quote
 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by Le Chief on Mon Apr 6th at 10:46am 2009

Quoting gtamike_TSGK
Have you got any ideas of what sounds would be good for this map?


Let's see, an overall ambient sound for the outdoors (and maybe the indoors also) that plays everywhere at a consistent volume as long as you are outdoors. Perhaps the occasional wind blowing, distant car driving by, bird chirping and what not, this should be setup via a soundscape. Alot of objects in your map could have also had sounds such as a buzzing sound for the vending machine or the lights, sound for the fridge, noise from the computer, noise from the fire etc. You could also setup a few soundscapes for some rooms in the house and added like wood cracking or walking sounds as if somebody else is in the house.

Just think about what kind of sounds you would expect to hear in a house and don't be afraid to exaggerate it a bit (toss in those sounds you think would only occur uncommonly or rarely). If your browsing through sound effects and you hear one that would suit your map than add it! Just don't flood the player with sound, it rarely ever gets to that stage though.


Aaron's Stuff



Quote
 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by gtamike_TSGK on Mon Apr 6th at 3:11pm 2009

Quoting aaron_da_killa
Quoting gtamike_TSGK
Have you got any ideas of what sounds would be good for this map?


Let's see, an overall ambient sound for the outdoors (and maybe the indoors also) that plays everywhere at a consistent volume as long as you are outdoors. Perhaps the occasional wind blowing, distant car driving by, bird chirping and what not, this should be setup via a soundscape. Alot of objects in your map could have also had sounds such as a buzzing sound for the vending machine or the lights, sound for the fridge, noise from the computer, noise from the fire etc. You could also setup a few soundscapes for some rooms in the house and added like wood cracking or walking sounds as if somebody else is in the house.

Just think about what kind of sounds you would expect to hear in a house and don't be afraid to exaggerate it a bit (toss in those sounds you think would only occur uncommonly or rarely). If your browsing through sound effects and you hear one that would suit your map than add it! Just don't flood the player with sound, it rarely ever gets to that stage though.


This will be useful, thanks again.


http://gamebanana.com/members/215600
https://www.youtube.com/c/gtamikesvideos




Quote
 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by G4MER on Mon Apr 6th at 10:27pm 2009

Yeah Aaron knows the sound dealio.

Have you checked out any of the Contest Maps yet? You should.. may give you some ideas on how to use sound to make the feel of your map come alive.



Quote
 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by Riven on Wed Apr 8th at 1:00am 2009

-So, I entered this map by myself to begin getting a feel about what I had gotten myself into. I'll start off by saying I've never really been a big fan of 'house' style maps, but they aren't killboxes, and they must have gameplay mechanics in order to make them 'fun' (aside: simply relying on the core gameplay mechanics of a game [the guns abilities, etc...] is no excuse for a level /aside) -So I figured this ought to be fun to play around in.

I may be the wrong person to review a map like this since I'm such a heckler of 'purpose in gameplay and setting' but I'll try and subdue those critical urges to try and talk about what the map is obviously trying to focus on the most: Fun Gameplay!

Unnatural though it may have been, I proceeded to suspend my disbelief and wonder about the level aimlessly trying out the different mechanisms. I instantly figured the vent shafts all along the bottom of the building (and some above) were breakable, breaking one, I entered the 'house' for the first time. I noticed a carved out brush with a tile texture coating and water (supposedly meant to resemble a tub of some sort) and the 'dead guy from de_train' posed in it. Realizing I must have walked in on a REALLY 'bad hair day' I proceeded through the all brush-based 'blocky' bathroom. I continued through the maze of 'simple' rooms until I came across some stairs. I ducked down to see what might be hiding there in the dark abyss underneath, and right next to another breakable vent, was my good 'ol friend the Gnome! -Come to greet me in another world (supposedly not ruled by Combine). (pictured below)




The greetings were short, I told the Gnome, I had to leave for I was on a mission; A mission to check this map OUT!

-Ok, enough with the story there, I really had no way to tie that up whatsoever, so I'm just going to skip to some of the details I thought stood out in the map and some that didn't so much. If your name is not 'gtamike' I suggest you skip this next part as I'm sure it will be pretty boring for anyone else smiley

The not so good points:
  • Some rooms in the house seem pointless in gameplay terms. The space with the Gman's body for instance... I think you should avoid small spaces like that for a fast paced game like this. Maybe, a few, but not as many as you have.
  • The breakable windows (once they're broken) just beg for you to run through them, but every time I do (and this is out ANY window in the house) I always get stuck on the bottom ledge. For such a large window that just beckons for people to run through them, shouldn't it be without hassle? I mean, If I had the choice to go through a door or window, I'd go through the window because it's more fun. But if I'm running away from someone my brain will get conflicted when coming across such a decision. I will automatically want to run for the window, but because I don't remember I get stuck on the window sill, (for whatever reason) I end up getting killed for a simple problem that can be easily fixed IMO. (see below)



    -So just lower those ledges just a little; (I think the max auto rise for players in Source is 20 units).
  • Some of the props seem to get in the way of the main passageways. I don't remember any offhand atm, but give the map another look for yourself and keep that in mind to see if anything catches your eyes then.
  • The 'garage' area (with the white car) could be fixed a little. I think the car itself should be all the way up against the wall in one corner. I know it's fun to run around the car, but it sucks during team-play when half your team ends up crowding in there because it becomes a choke point for around the map when people are trying to maneuver themselves from one side to another. One carefully placed smg nade would wipe out anyone in there. -And also, for such an important choke point, I think you could do more with it visually, and gameplay-wise.
  • the file cabinets around the bed are in the way of the window. (not a big deal actually since they can easily be moved)
  • The house seems to be very cut-up and jarring. Doesn't allow for a lot of wiggle room. Meaning, players will be running into one another before they might ever spot them.

-The good stuff!
  • I love the little death traps (at least the ones you can expect!)
  • teleporters are always fun. (especially the one through the floor <pretty neat!)
  • love the kitty!
  • plenty of Z-axis fighting <always makes things interesting.
  • plenty of breakable or discoverable items, places and interactive things to find and use.


FINAL THOUGHTS:
The map offers your generic HL2DM gameplay with some twists here and there. That is, the actual death traps and toys that you can set up automatically to deceive other players makes it that much more fun. I think as a person simply trying to achieve a high *fun* factor for gameplay, I'd say you've achieved that. I wish there was a story to go along with it, but sadly enough, nothing obvious pokes out at me as giving me a clue as to what the setting might be. And with that I must cut myself off, as I am crashing from an energy drink from earlier and I can no longer keep coherent textual thoughts in my brain for longer than


Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202



Quote
 Re: [map] dm_attack_house_tsgk_rc2
Posted by Le Chief on Wed Apr 8th at 6:24am 2009

Haha, nice! You should publicly critique maps more often while on an energy drink high :P. I don't think anyone wouldn't appreciate a review like that for their own map!


Aaron's Stuff




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