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Render problems causing high r_speeds
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 Re: Render problems causing high r_speeds
Posted by Trucker on Tue Mar 29th at 2:41pm 2011

I have tried with a roof on, which would also teoretically VIS block over the top.
And it's perfectly alligned on a 32 grid on the bottom with the floor.

It's pretty hard to explain a problem i don't know much about, which is why it would be such a big help for some kind person to get the zip and take a look smiley



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 Re: Render problems causing high r_speeds
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Apr 1st at 10:39am 2011

Home.
I was really hoping to finding your bsp in that zip. smiley



The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Render problems causing high r_speeds
Posted by Trucker on Fri Apr 1st at 10:57am 2011

Welcome back!

Ah well.

Since it might have been compiling problems i did not include it.

It isn't really vital, is it? smiley



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 Re: Render problems causing high r_speeds
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Apr 1st at 2:00pm 2011

Well, for my case it might be. I don't have anything editor wise installed for HL1. I haven't mapped in a very long time. I dunno.

It wouldn't take a minute to zip your bsp and upload it someplace.

I wonder if you can view it in HL2 editor...
I'll get back to you. In the mean time. zip that bsp.

[edit]
I tried. I cannot remember how to set up hammer using steam. I cannot even find the damned texture set.
Anyway.. I looked at what I could (which wasn't much) and it looks like you have everything in one area. Albeit, you got everything in separate cubicles, but essentially in one area. HL can see over those partitions.

I'll know better if/when you zip that bsp.



The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Render problems causing high r_speeds
Posted by Trucker on Fri Apr 1st at 7:22pm 2011

Hey.

I'm not totally sure what you mean by having it all in one place.

I have also tried with a roof on it, which didn't work out either

Anyways, here is the .bsp and a compile log for you to look at:
http://www.2shared.com/file/sTRml1Gs/trucker_bsp.html

Cheers for the help dude! smiley
I hope we can get this one resolved
Trucker




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 Re: Render problems causing high r_speeds
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Apr 1st at 8:43pm 2011

OK, I am not saying this bad. I am really amazed the r_speeds are so low TBH. The map is entirely built on the same plain. In other words, you have no variance in height from one side to the other. Considering all the func_walls you have this is really astounding. You need to make the areas/zones/rooms be on various heights throughout your map. In essence you have a killbox with a whole shitload of stuff inside it. Its not bad, but its not good either. If you could say, take each of your sections and stack them atop one another and add elevators or stairways, you get a much smaller play area and the r's would drop. Each section by itself is not a problem, its having a zone 1,000 feet across that's causing you grief. (a slight exaggeration but its still a long line of sight.)

Now, I know you aren't ready to build this kind of map. But it will give you an idea of how to make a freaking HUGE map and still keep things under control. I ain't lying. This map is the biggest HL1 map I know of in existence and it will show you lots of how things are done.

Anyway's, the only thing I can suggest is to decrease the outside area to just a footpath along the outside parameter if you want to retain the building "as is"

Other than that, it's a lost cause. Sorry dood. Its going to be one of those maps that shows you what NOT to do I think.

Please feel free to get more advice.
Orph



The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Render problems causing high r_speeds
Posted by Trucker on Sat Apr 2nd at 10:32am 2011

Well, i appreciate your comments alot.
And i know about how to make maps small and block vis with walls etc.
This map is a replica of the school i attend atm, so i can not just make an elevator

What the thread is really about is a render problem.
The thing that makes it see through walls at specifically the point i screenshot.

I know the big large areas will give a high poly count, but at the screenshot location there is no large area at all, and it did not always behave that way.

That is the thing i do not understand. Especially since it came suddenly after working perfectly for 8 hours.

And if it shows me what NOT to do, it won't help me a bit, since i don't know what went wrong at all, so i can't learn from it smiley

This would probably be the last map i ever create. I don't want to spend hours on making a map and then suddenly this outdaded engine messes it all up smiley
Just eliminates the enthusiasm.

If you can't see the problem, like myself,
then Thanks for the replies though! smiley



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 Re: Render problems causing high r_speeds
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 2nd at 1:13pm 2011

Dood, this out dated engine has created master pieces. Just because I cannot help you build this one, doesn't mean someone cannot.

Plus another thing you haven't taken into account. Maps of this nature don't usually play well or turn out all that well so you haven't really done anything wrong, that hasn't been done wrong before now. There is a reason why there aren't many maps like yours.

Still though, its your call. I do feel that if you are this easily discouraged you're not likely to go on to another more advanced engine. They are MUCH harder to map for.

The HL1 engine will teach you valuable lessons on what not to do and what works. Some of which will carry on to other engines.

I am sorry you didn't get the resolution you wanted. However, if you knew exactly how many dozens of maps I scrapped you'd not feel nearly as bad about this one. In the end I guess its better you discover you aren't ready to commit to level editing. Its a thankless task or more accurately, its a fleetingly thankful task.

Hope you hang around a while/ Perhaps you can locate some other school type maps and see how they did things.

Orph



The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Render problems causing high r_speeds
Posted by Trucker on Sun Apr 3rd at 9:52am 2011

Don't get me wrong.
I do really appreciate your help and comments alot! smiley

The thing is, i really got pissed at this one since it just happened suddenly.
Guess there's not much to do with it.

Actually i started at the source engine, which i found was alot easier.
This just started as a fun idea in school, since we play 1.6 in class alot smiley
So was more of a "let's see if i can make this" thing.

It's not really that i have a big passion for mapping. This idea was just very inspiring for me.

I think i will try to add some Vis blocking of some kind just to test out things, so i might try other stuff and new maps. But i am not sure i have the motivation.

Again, thanks alot for all the help!
Trucker




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 Re: Render problems causing high r_speeds
Posted by omegaslayer on Mon Apr 4th at 4:04am 2011

topic was too long to read (lol), so just in case the issue hasn't been solved yet. Only world brushes block VIS, so if all your walls are func_walls (any entity) with glass, all the rooms will be drawn. Unfortunately there is no way around this outside of modifying the layout so it "tricks" the player into seeing more space when hes really not.



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 Re: Render problems causing high r_speeds
Posted by Trucker on Mon Apr 4th at 7:30am 2011

hasn't been solved, and probably won't.
The walls are all world brushes



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 Re: Render problems causing high r_speeds
Posted by omegaslayer on Mon Apr 4th at 4:54pm 2011

*reads thread*

Yeah i've done maps like this before (mimicking my school and calling it columbine - lol). However one of the key things I've discovered was that in real life you can see through the glass and be rendering all the things on the other side of the glass. Thats all the classrooms, and all the pencils/desks inside etc. I've gotten discouraged with this too in my early days, as a result I had tons of wide open areas that never ran well in the game, so I scrapped them.

IF there existed area portals in the original HL engine, then it could be worth while. However it only exists in goldsrc (? idk i never bothered) and the source engine. This map is very doable in the source engine if you read up on area portals (its like foggy windows that block whats being drawn inside a room). I suggest looking at dm_island17 source my mazemaster, it has a lot of good area-portal work in it with all his houses, and he still was able to create an enjoyable experience with a wide open map.

also

You could also just make the glass non-transparent for far away buildings that the player will never reach, or on classrooms that you cannot enter (like the lights are off? so you see opaque glass - its been done before), and then just make a few open classrooms (that are vis blocked away from one another - as in other areas of the map) to direct flow. This way you could "trick" the player into thinking its an entire school filled with classes that he can't enter.



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 Re: Render problems causing high r_speeds
Posted by Trucker on Mon Apr 4th at 9:16pm 2011

Quoting omegaslayer

You could also just make the glass non-transparent for far away buildings that the player will never reach, or on classrooms that you cannot enter (like the lights are off? so you see opaque glass - its been done before), and then just make a few open classrooms (that are vis blocked away from one another - as in other areas of the map) to direct flow. This way you could "trick" the player into thinking its an entire school filled with classes that he can't enter.


This is pretty much what i have done with no effect. Again, i refuse this is caused by a poor mapping failure. It's not getting those high r_speeds at the big open areas, but when looking inside small areas, where it renders through the world brushes.

Thanks for the tips tho smiley




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