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max_patches hack
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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Dr Brasso on Tue Nov 18th at 2:19pm 2003

isnt there a way to extend the max_patches in an NS map to aqueeze in that extra vit of mapping madness??

Doc Brass...

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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Gollum on Tue Nov 18th at 2:26pm 2003

Yes. Run the -sparse parameter in HLRAD. This has absolutely no risk and no disadvantage except for a possible increase in compile times.

So far as I know, the tricks for avoiding max_patches, max_clipnodes and max_planes work in all mods.

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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Dr Brasso on Tue Nov 18th at 3:20pm 2003

thank you G.....this flu is kickin my arse to the mat....i knew there was a way.....i sure wish some of those tuts were back up.....

Doc Brass...

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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Gollum on Tue Nov 18th at 3:38pm 2003

No problem Get well soon BTW!

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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Dr Brasso on Tue Nov 18th at 3:45pm 2003

thsank you sir, your very kind....btw, do you have any winning lottery numbers, o God of Boulders?? ///reoffers sacrificial daughter....

Doc Brass...

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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Gollum on Tue Nov 18th at 3:49pm 2003

I can see that this signature is more trouble than it's worth. Oh well, so be it Still, it's good for yet another bad pun:

I'm afraid I only have the lottery numbers when it's a roll-over

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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Hornpipe2 on Tue Nov 18th at 4:11pm 2003

I thought -sparse just used a compressed vismatrix? Or does "exceeded max patches" just mean you ran out of RAM? [addsig]



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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Dr Brasso on Tue Nov 18th at 4:20pm 2003

yer allowed 65353 "patches" to use in a standard map setup, and these are mathematicly calculated with different texture scalling, etc........there are various ways to get around it, but the hack is used when all others are exchausted....example...exterior or unseen textures can be scaled way up, and thatll save you some room....

Doc Brass...

and Mike, i told ya about that "other God like entity "thing didnt i??....roflmao yer wit is exceeded only by your " Gollum-like features....

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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Hornpipe2 on Tue Nov 18th at 4:36pm 2003

ah - from ZHLTReference.html:

HLRAD
-sparse Enable low memory vismatrix algorithm

The original vismatrix algorithm was limited to 65535 patches due to its design. Its memory usage also grew exponentially with the number of patches (patches * patches / 16 bytes). This option enables a compressed vismatrix, which at the cost of extra CPU time, breaks the 65535 limit, and also uses about 10% of the memory the vismatrix would.

Also, why bother scaling unseen textures way up when you can just texture them with NULL and take them out of the BSP entirely? It's like painting unseen faces in Quake 2 with SKY, except this method actually works in HL...

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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by mazemaster on Tue Nov 18th at 4:38pm 2003

1: unseen exterious faces are culled, thus they produce no patches.

2: As gollum said, you can break the 65,535 limit by using the -sparse command, but if you are around 150,000 even that may not be enough and you might have to use the -nomatrix switch. The -nomatrix method produces the same results, but can take a longer time, especially if you have opaque entities.





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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Dr Brasso on Tue Nov 18th at 4:56pm 2003

well, im here to tell ya, ive saved my patches by doing exactly what i said....maybe its in the setup of my tools or whatever, but, either way......

and hornpipe, i never said it was the definative way to do it, i just know its worked for me in the past....

Doc B

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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by mazemaster on Tue Nov 18th at 5:42pm 2003

Its still not necessairily a bad idea to null the outside of your map just in case some of it isnt culled, like if its a little pocket of space that isnt in your map but is isnt touching the void either.



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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Dr Brasso on Wed Nov 19th at 5:30am 2003

just so maybe we can update the database for ole Lep a bit, as well as myself needing a hand, different tools take different placements of said command line parameters....for instance....hammer tools is one way, HLCC does it another, TBCC another, etc etc....i dont have the skillz to write anything up, but if one of you cerebral type mapping guru godlike creatures from another world could find it in yer heart to write something up, i, and my lesser deified counterparts would be greatful indeed....

///offers up one slightly used sacrifice to the mapping gods, raises said sacrifice high above head, grabs hernia........

Doc Brasso...

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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Gorbachev on Wed Nov 19th at 7:16am 2003

Personally I start with every brush being textured with NULL, then I texture all the visible parts one by one, it saves on every unnecessary face and allows for more detail. [addsig]



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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Gollum on Wed Nov 19th at 11:48am 2003

That's an......interesting way to work You'd better not miss a face then, or you get some nasty texture errors. Still, I can kinda see the logic, even if it does seem a bit unnecessary.

As for different compile frontends and the like.......well, I only use my own batch files, but for a frontend I expect you just "tick the box" for a parameter. For a batch file, the correct syntax is to leave a space after the map path and follow it with the parameter preffixed with a dash. You need spaces between parameters too, and between parameters and their values. For example:

hlrad.exe c:hammermapsmap1.map -extra -smooth 80 -estimate -chart -low -sparse

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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Nov 19th at 11:59am 2003

? posted by Gollum

That's an......interesting way to work You'd better not miss a face then, or you get some nasty texture errors. Still, I can kinda see the logic, even if it does seem a bit unnecessary.

As for different compile frontends and the like.......well, I only use my own batch files, but for a frontend I expect you just "tick the box" for a parameter. For a batch file, the correct syntax is to leave a space after the map path and follow it with the parameter preffixed with a dash. You need spaces between parameters too, and between parameters and their values. For example:

hlrad.exe c:hammermapsmap1.map -extra -smooth 80 -estimate -chart -low -sparse

i think this one doesnt belong, or will at the very least , cancel out the extra..

/me not sure tho.. but i dont recal a low param for rad.

[edit].. /me checks, there is a low param, but i would still think it would cancel out the extra param..

don't forget to bounce it a few times.. unless you want stark shadows

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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Gollum on Wed Nov 19th at 12:02pm 2003

The -low parameter just sets the compile tools to low priority, meaning that the rest of your system can continue to run smoothly with the compile in the background. It has nothing to do with the BSP output.

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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Nov 19th at 12:10pm 2003

/me stands corrected then, i always assumed it was the intensity of the compile, not the resources it acquired..

/me learns something new.. thanks mike.

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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Gollum on Wed Nov 19th at 12:29pm 2003

For a complete description of compile parameters, look at the "ZHLTReference.html" document that comes with Zoner's tools [addsig]



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 Re: max_patches hack
Posted by Dr Brasso on Wed Nov 19th at 1:49pm 2003

maybe i wasnt specific enough in my request....

ok....joe shmoe uses HLCC (ok, im joe shmoe, the secrets out... )

there are no boxes for -sparse....

where do you put it....the only real command line is in the very first param box....

so it would go something like this then?

C:SIERRAHalf-Lifehl.exe -console -dev -particles 50000 -sparse

yes? no? maybe?

the point is, i cant find anything definitive to say " shove it right here Al"

.....and i thought it might help not only me, but other noobs to find out how to do it in thier respective compile setups....i havent had to use it before because ive managed to squeeze out every last patch i could under other "cruder" methods....

but this one i cant....

comments?

Doc Brass...

[addsig]




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