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I need...
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 Re: I need...
Posted by Wilddoggie on Tue Jan 13th at 1:54am 2004

lol, i dont really see whats wrong with .net, it cant be that bad for its money, its the program that college and university students taking advanced c++ clases get in their course fee (here in canada) i know all the things i need to make models, guns, cars, and have the character interact with them in a game, so i could probably get my own game started, but i dont wanna use any half life based stuff for the game (except for hammer editor) i think ill use that to design my own levels, but im gonna create my own engine and Dlls files, its gonna take a very long time. and as you guys can tell im extremely horrible at making multi player maps.





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 Re: I need...
Posted by Hornpipe2 on Tue Jan 13th at 3:07am 2004

There's nothing *wrong* with .NET. It's a perfectly usable IDE and compiler, its debugger is second to none, and it will, in fact, generate code.

Here's why you might not want to use .NET:

1) It costs money. A lot of money. For someone with little to no programming experience, it's silly to drop $240 on something you might not use too much. We recommended several alternatives that are free and compile just as well as .Net - e.g. using Dev-C++, PellesC, Eclipse, DJGPP (well, not really recommended...) - definitely look into these before you go buy .Net.

2) It compiles Windows applications. Probably not that big of a deal, but if you ever wrote a game that, say, a Linux or Mac user might want to play, tough. It's a difficult task to port something like a game from Microsoft's setup to a more portable setup, though it's certainly doable if you stick to your standard C/C++ functions as much as possible.

3) Speaking of which, .Net does not adhere strictly to the C/C++ standards that other programs use. Again, that's fine for now, but if the user doesn't have the .Net framework then they're screwed. Also, if you start getting dependent on functions that .net provides that aren't in the standard, you're screwed when you get to a different compiler without 'em.

[addsig]



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 Re: I need...
Posted by Crono on Tue Jan 13th at 6:17am 2004

Thank you Hornpipe, Those are the exact reasons why I was saying you really shouldn't use .NET

I mean obviously, yeah you can. But you're limiting your self and your projects delelopment.

I also found another pretty good IDE, Netbeans. It's pretty nice, I've been messing with it.

Wild, just because you want to write an engine that encorperates Hammer doesn't mean you have to write specifically in .NET you just need a Windows Compiler for C++. Unless you want to, as Hornpipe said, use .NET functions, and not many people want to download the framework (I think Nem has one or two tools actually worth the .NET framework download, GCF scape being one of them).
But do as you will, it's your money that you're wasting.
.NETs debugger debugs .NETs compiled programs . . . there are little tricks that Microsoft doesn't allow in general.
Not to mention the whole Global issue. If you think using globals for most varibles is alright then I suggest you read up on programming practice. Because the DirectX libraries REQUIRE you to use globals, its the way it was written.

That's why I suggested writting your engine using OpenGL, non-windows IDE. That way it can be ported just by changing compilers and it would run on EVERYTHING. Windows, Linux, OSX. Thats a bigger audience then just Windows.

Now something that might come into play is whether you prefer ATI or nVidia. Or lets call it what it is: Direct3D or OpenGL lol.

I just think before you even consider starting a game engine you should research some hardware so you can develop acordingly. Such as, do you want it to run on a 64-bit platform?
If you do, don't think you can write normal code and have it work just as well as it does on your X86.

These are just some things to think about and you wouldn't think about any of them if you made your application using .NET

I suggest that you (Wild) try developing a simple text editor using DirectX and one using OpenGL, see which library you like more, use a free IDE to make it as well, mess with compilers get some tests going on compiler optimization.

Then if you still want .NET you can waste your money.

/*Saying you're a .NET developer is kinda like going to a computer repair shop and boasting that are A+ Certifiied . . . You'll only get laughed at by the rest of that community.*/

[edit]Wild, you do know that for you to make any money off of this game you want to make, you'd have to make a personal agreement with Valve, because you're using their Editor. Gearbox had to make the same sort of agreement and they re-wrote half of it. Which is what you'd have to do as well, just to mention, because you are infact, not using the HL engine.[/edit] [addsig]



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 Re: I need...
Posted by scary_jeff on Tue Jan 13th at 9:09am 2004

Thanks Crono. I've actually done a reasonable ammount of assembly, but for a simpler processor. So having done that and php, I thought c++ would be ok, especially having a basic class on it here at uni. I suppose what I meant was that surely if I end up using windows.h, my program won't work on different platforms... that seems kinda lame to me.

Would Wild have to rewrite the editor? Why couldn't he just make his game able to read the bsp format?



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 Re: I need...
Posted by Crono on Tue Jan 13th at 10:23am 2004

Because, that's not how Hammer works.

If you notice when you compile maps you tell it what compilers to use. However! Hammer is already set up to use the Half-life Directory system, and it will get whiney if you change things and actually execute them in the compiling process, but you can turn them off and move maps and things manually if you like.

He can use BSP's He just has to write the compiler him self. I said re-writing Hammer would be a wise idea, that would be the only way to make it work properly, simply because Hammer is made for Half-Life's Engine. Just as The Unreal editor is made for the Unreal engine. If you write a new engine, don't conform to someone elses standard, if you do that why didn't you just use their engine and get their permission to use it?

All I'm saying is, if you're going to write something new and you want to use a current program, you're going to have to tweak it, unless it follows the current file structure and you write your own compilers. That's all.

By the way Jeff, that book rocks. It would have been cool if you found it like a year ago though, before they printed a fourth edition, it would have been 30 bucks then (its about 60 now).

Doesn't assembly bite some ass? lol

I refused to use MASM in my class (the microsoft Version) and I used NASM instead (Linux Version) and it was a lot harder, but well rewarded. the only thing that really really sucks is input and output . . . eww God I think I'm gonna be sick ....lol.

Another book that everyone who owns and IDE should have is this: "The C Programming Language Second Edition" By Brain W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie.

The book is on C, but it has an amazing amount of information, it's basically the Programming standard at every university for the last 25 years when the first edition was printed. (The Second Edition was released in 1988! How rock solid is that? *cough* Before Microsoft *cough*).

I believe one of its best aspects is the table of presidence.
what will this do:

a = ++i+++j--; /*lol presidence comes in handy*/

Anyway, does this sound like babbel or useful information?
Anyone can answer that question. [addsig]




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