You only need to use it on one chip in your case, the GPU (But I don't think it'll help, because this sounds like a memory problem) the tube of paste can be used multiple times, is what I was saying (not single use, you can use it about 4 times)
Frankly, if you're this confused about this process, honestly, just skip it. You're going to ask a million questions that I can't really answer in text, and then you'll just ask more.
If you want to give it a shot, look up videos on how to do it and give it a try. If you don't want to chance it or can't look at videos due to bandwidth concerns, then just forget it. Put up with the damaged card until you can get a new one.
In either case, I don't think you'll be able to fix the issue you're having, it really sounds like the video memory (separate small chips from the GPU) is permanently damaged; you'll likely start seeing artifacts all the time pretty soon, not just while playing games.
Orpheus, the fins catching a lot of dust is only a side-feature. :3 (It's actually so they can put in more copper while still having airflow on a maximum surface area, keeping it cooler than a giant copper block ever would)
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Crono on Fri Sep 9th at 2:58am 2011
Posted by Crono on Fri Sep 9th at 2:58am 2011
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Fri Sep 9th at 6:36am 2011
Posted by tornados2111 on Fri Sep 9th at 6:36am 2011
For me its a fan, like this http://www.overclock3d.net/gfx/articles/2008/09/24231230600l.jpg . Do I take apart the thing thats right underneath the fan the one thats kind of orange and is a big spiral? I have attempted doing it before but it seemed to be stuck to the card without screws, so i don't know. Or do I just take of the top part which is the fan individually?
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Crono on Fri Sep 9th at 7:21am 2011
Posted by Crono on Fri Sep 9th at 7:21am 2011
The screws are usually on the back and it will be a little "stuck" if you've never taken it off before. That's the thermal paste holding it on, just gently pull without bending the board in any way until it comes off.
By the way, if your card is designed like that ... there's no cooling happening for the video memory. You might want to look into a new cooler (may not actually be damaged ... I thought you had a heat-sync that covered everything like most 9800GTs)
Like this: http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling/431054-review-coolink-gfxchilla.html
Oh. Also ... I want to make something very VERY clear: ONCE YOU REMOVE THE HEAT SYNC AND BREAK THE PREVIOUS THERMAL CONNECTION YOU HAVE TO CLEAN THE CHIPS AND APPLY NEW THERMAL PASTE. Do NOT just put the heat sync back on and use the card, you will effectively eliminate all cooling capacity the card just had.
By the way, if your card is designed like that ... there's no cooling happening for the video memory. You might want to look into a new cooler (may not actually be damaged ... I thought you had a heat-sync that covered everything like most 9800GTs)
Like this: http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling/431054-review-coolink-gfxchilla.html
Oh. Also ... I want to make something very VERY clear: ONCE YOU REMOVE THE HEAT SYNC AND BREAK THE PREVIOUS THERMAL CONNECTION YOU HAVE TO CLEAN THE CHIPS AND APPLY NEW THERMAL PASTE. Do NOT just put the heat sync back on and use the card, you will effectively eliminate all cooling capacity the card just had.
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Sep 9th at 10:53am 2011
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Posted by Orpheus on Fri Sep 9th at 10:53am 2011
Personally, I have yet to see anyone take a heat sink off of a video card without breaking the card. I am sure it can be done, I just haven't seen it. Cards are to thin and fragile.
Good luck with this.
Good luck with this.
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Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Fri Sep 9th at 3:37pm 2011
Posted by tornados2111 on Fri Sep 9th at 3:37pm 2011
So once I take the metal spiral off i put the the thermal paste on the chip to which i will gain access once i take the spiral off? How much are these fans? I would prefer trying the thermal paste first and if that doesn't help then buying the heat sync. Perhaps considering a new card would be a good idea?
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Crono on Fri Sep 9th at 5:09pm 2011
Posted by Crono on Fri Sep 9th at 5:09pm 2011
Orpheus, I've done it multiple times without breaking the card (never have broken a card) it's only difficult if you don't properly remove everything.
tornados, it really sounds like you just don't have the proper concept of what you're going to do. I wouldn't suggest doing it, or even starting without looking at some videos first of other people doing it.
I've already said this about four times, so I guess I have to explain it better:
It looks like your video card is having MEMORY problems. If your card is designed like the one you just showed (cylindrical heat sync only on the GPU), then it's likely that the video memory isn't cooled, at all, and has overheated many times.
On a graphics card, you have a micro-system. Like the CPU and RAM in your computer, there is another system on your graphics card, the GPU and Video Memory (not RAM, since it's not actually random access) The GPU (graphics processing unit) is the core of the card's chipset (the chipset in this case being Nvidia Geforce 9800, GT is designation of the card) Outside of that are little black chips, this is video memory, this is where everything on the card gets stored while not being processed or that is being ready to be dumped out to the screen (front and back buffers).
Memory is a electrical component just like anything else, it has a timing speed and uses many of the same components in a condensed area. It doesn't have to do nearly as much work as a processor, but it does also get hot. As a result, if video memory is not cooled properly it will cause errors and small components inside the memory chips can be permanently damaged.
If video memory is damaged, you get a specific kind of artifact, usually dealing with stored data and not operational errors. If something happens to the entire screen, for example, it's unlikely that it's video memory. However, if a specific point or texture almost always is artifacting then there's a good chance a specific memory module is damaged.
That is what I'm thinking has happened to your card. There are aftermarket coolers that will fit the chipset on your card to cool the GPU AND memory. Where as, by the example card you showed, on your card it looks like only the GPU is being directly cooled.
That means that, yes replacing thermal paste is actually a good idea (because artic silver is FAR better than any thermal paste anyone uses) it doesn't sound like it'll actually fix the issue, because the GPU itself doesn't sound like it's overheating.
If the card had an all encompassing heat sync that cooled memory and GPU, turning up the fan speed alone would have worked.
All in all, if you want to keep using the card, you need to change the heat sync if the memory isn't being cooled ... it's just a fundamental flaw. As long as that memory isn't cooled it'll keep getting damaged the more you use it. And in the long run, yes, you should buy a new card.
tornados, it really sounds like you just don't have the proper concept of what you're going to do. I wouldn't suggest doing it, or even starting without looking at some videos first of other people doing it.
I've already said this about four times, so I guess I have to explain it better:
It looks like your video card is having MEMORY problems. If your card is designed like the one you just showed (cylindrical heat sync only on the GPU), then it's likely that the video memory isn't cooled, at all, and has overheated many times.
On a graphics card, you have a micro-system. Like the CPU and RAM in your computer, there is another system on your graphics card, the GPU and Video Memory (not RAM, since it's not actually random access) The GPU (graphics processing unit) is the core of the card's chipset (the chipset in this case being Nvidia Geforce 9800, GT is designation of the card) Outside of that are little black chips, this is video memory, this is where everything on the card gets stored while not being processed or that is being ready to be dumped out to the screen (front and back buffers).
Memory is a electrical component just like anything else, it has a timing speed and uses many of the same components in a condensed area. It doesn't have to do nearly as much work as a processor, but it does also get hot. As a result, if video memory is not cooled properly it will cause errors and small components inside the memory chips can be permanently damaged.
If video memory is damaged, you get a specific kind of artifact, usually dealing with stored data and not operational errors. If something happens to the entire screen, for example, it's unlikely that it's video memory. However, if a specific point or texture almost always is artifacting then there's a good chance a specific memory module is damaged.
That is what I'm thinking has happened to your card. There are aftermarket coolers that will fit the chipset on your card to cool the GPU AND memory. Where as, by the example card you showed, on your card it looks like only the GPU is being directly cooled.
That means that, yes replacing thermal paste is actually a good idea (because artic silver is FAR better than any thermal paste anyone uses) it doesn't sound like it'll actually fix the issue, because the GPU itself doesn't sound like it's overheating.
If the card had an all encompassing heat sync that cooled memory and GPU, turning up the fan speed alone would have worked.
All in all, if you want to keep using the card, you need to change the heat sync if the memory isn't being cooled ... it's just a fundamental flaw. As long as that memory isn't cooled it'll keep getting damaged the more you use it. And in the long run, yes, you should buy a new card.
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Mon Sep 12th at 8:43pm 2011
Posted by tornados2111 on Mon Sep 12th at 8:43pm 2011
Thanks very much for that reply, it explained alot.
I have decided on a new graphics card. I have a lot of questions :P and would be cool if you could answer as many as you can and thanks in advance.
First of all the question is ATI or NVIDIA? I have read that the main difference is that NVIDIA has PhysX and ATI has better AA and AF. I don't play any PhysX games and i would prefer better AA and AF so I obviosly pick ATI. If u have an argument against that please reply with it. Next is which card specifically i need. I have a 1680x1050 res and I play games like CSS, and TF2 and probably soon CS GO( Although I don't think graphics wise there is a huge difference). I find it a bit stupid buying a card about the same power as the 9800gt as i might as well upgrade it. I have a dual 2.7 dual processor and i have read that games like css and tf2 mainly take processing instead of graphics, and i notice that my fps drops when I enter an area full of other people which I assume means it takes more processing power. I will probably play a few other games with better graphics however its not really a main priority, main priority is being able to play tf2 and css at max graphics with good fps(if not always 60+). As I said I will probably have to upgrade my processor too.
I know my 9800gt is PCI-E x 16 so i assume the graphics card i will buy will need to be the same. If you have any suggestions for anything I've said or for specific video card or just arguments please reply. Price does matter, Although I am willing to pay a bit more for performance. I don' really know how much the video cards cost these days so can't really give a price range, again thanks for any help
I have decided on a new graphics card. I have a lot of questions :P and would be cool if you could answer as many as you can and thanks in advance.
First of all the question is ATI or NVIDIA? I have read that the main difference is that NVIDIA has PhysX and ATI has better AA and AF. I don't play any PhysX games and i would prefer better AA and AF so I obviosly pick ATI. If u have an argument against that please reply with it. Next is which card specifically i need. I have a 1680x1050 res and I play games like CSS, and TF2 and probably soon CS GO( Although I don't think graphics wise there is a huge difference). I find it a bit stupid buying a card about the same power as the 9800gt as i might as well upgrade it. I have a dual 2.7 dual processor and i have read that games like css and tf2 mainly take processing instead of graphics, and i notice that my fps drops when I enter an area full of other people which I assume means it takes more processing power. I will probably play a few other games with better graphics however its not really a main priority, main priority is being able to play tf2 and css at max graphics with good fps(if not always 60+). As I said I will probably have to upgrade my processor too.
I know my 9800gt is PCI-E x 16 so i assume the graphics card i will buy will need to be the same. If you have any suggestions for anything I've said or for specific video card or just arguments please reply. Price does matter, Although I am willing to pay a bit more for performance. I don' really know how much the video cards cost these days so can't really give a price range, again thanks for any help
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Orpheus on Mon Sep 12th at 8:55pm 2011
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Posted by Orpheus on Mon Sep 12th at 8:55pm 2011
I'm 99% sure this is Adam's card of choice
He has trouble seeing past this one sometimes.
My personal opinion, ATI and nVidia are neck and neck so the only determining factor for me is more ram = better choice.
He has trouble seeing past this one sometimes.
My personal opinion, ATI and nVidia are neck and neck so the only determining factor for me is more ram = better choice.
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Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Crono on Mon Sep 12th at 10:35pm 2011
Posted by Crono on Mon Sep 12th at 10:35pm 2011
The AA and AF argument honestly sounds like non-issue. What anti-aliasing technique is used depends on the game, most use MSAA, which is a very old technique and EVERYONE does it perfectly fine. Old nVidia cards didn't support 6x MSAA ... but that's it. (They supported 4 and 8, though).
All the newer cards support CSAA, MSAA, and many other techniques that games don't use. With all of these ... they all achieve a similar result: aliasing artifacts become nearly impossible to see.
Pretty much either camp is going to have similar performance in most cases. Where you start to see a divergence is when you scale resolution. For single card solutions, AMD has a small upper hand in this area, due to memory size. However, the lead is small. The AMD cards still don't perform well beyond 1080P or so, after that, they're about neck in neck. However, nvidia has a huge advantage when it comes to multi-card solution. It could be because of software utilization, but benchmarks show that SLI systems vastly outperform crossfire and dual-GPU AMD cards (and even dual GPU Nvidia cards) and it actually is cheaper.
You can choose whatever you like, but honestly, don't use nonsense to make the decision. You should make the decision based on real factors, not high-end technicalities.
So ... before any suggestions are made (and Orpheus does have the card I'd suggest ... or rather the chipset ... I didn't see if it was the right model ... in terms of bang for your buck, it's about the best card you could snag) you need to detail what's in the system.
Because graphics manufacturers started making system chipsets ... you have to take that into consideration. So, if you could list what you have ... CPU, RAM, motherboard (it's very important that it's specific, because if the chipset is different than the one you list, I can't give an accurate suggestion and you may very well get something that will not work to its maximum ability as a result)
More VRAM = Better is a misnomer, games only utilize so much ... and most waste it. You only see benefits if there's some driver level stuff going on and it manages it better, but in most cases, you're not going to see any noticeable difference between a GTX 560 1GB card in your system over a GTX 560 2GB card. And games are definitely NOT filling up all that video memory (they're likely in the 500MB-800MB land)
Even in your system, more system memory isn't always going to help, because it really depends on the OS' utilization. Windows, for example, is very poor at utilizing system memory. (It pages everything even if system memory is 80% empty, as a result shit is slow for no reason once the computer has been on for awhile)
Generally speaking ... you're suppose to fill memory to the brim and only then will you utilize virtual memory, because virtual memory is slow and on the HDD. Windows doesn't do this. As a result, you get things that just haven't been used in awhile being offloaded to the HDD where ... it doesn't even need to go because system memory is never above 60% or so full. It's a very inefficient implementation and it's responsible for the majority of "lock ups" you experience when using it.
All the newer cards support CSAA, MSAA, and many other techniques that games don't use. With all of these ... they all achieve a similar result: aliasing artifacts become nearly impossible to see.
Pretty much either camp is going to have similar performance in most cases. Where you start to see a divergence is when you scale resolution. For single card solutions, AMD has a small upper hand in this area, due to memory size. However, the lead is small. The AMD cards still don't perform well beyond 1080P or so, after that, they're about neck in neck. However, nvidia has a huge advantage when it comes to multi-card solution. It could be because of software utilization, but benchmarks show that SLI systems vastly outperform crossfire and dual-GPU AMD cards (and even dual GPU Nvidia cards) and it actually is cheaper.
You can choose whatever you like, but honestly, don't use nonsense to make the decision. You should make the decision based on real factors, not high-end technicalities.
So ... before any suggestions are made (and Orpheus does have the card I'd suggest ... or rather the chipset ... I didn't see if it was the right model ... in terms of bang for your buck, it's about the best card you could snag) you need to detail what's in the system.
Because graphics manufacturers started making system chipsets ... you have to take that into consideration. So, if you could list what you have ... CPU, RAM, motherboard (it's very important that it's specific, because if the chipset is different than the one you list, I can't give an accurate suggestion and you may very well get something that will not work to its maximum ability as a result)
More VRAM = Better is a misnomer, games only utilize so much ... and most waste it. You only see benefits if there's some driver level stuff going on and it manages it better, but in most cases, you're not going to see any noticeable difference between a GTX 560 1GB card in your system over a GTX 560 2GB card. And games are definitely NOT filling up all that video memory (they're likely in the 500MB-800MB land)
Even in your system, more system memory isn't always going to help, because it really depends on the OS' utilization. Windows, for example, is very poor at utilizing system memory. (It pages everything even if system memory is 80% empty, as a result shit is slow for no reason once the computer has been on for awhile)
Generally speaking ... you're suppose to fill memory to the brim and only then will you utilize virtual memory, because virtual memory is slow and on the HDD. Windows doesn't do this. As a result, you get things that just haven't been used in awhile being offloaded to the HDD where ... it doesn't even need to go because system memory is never above 60% or so full. It's a very inefficient implementation and it's responsible for the majority of "lock ups" you experience when using it.
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Tue Sep 13th at 6:37am 2011
Posted by tornados2111 on Tue Sep 13th at 6:37am 2011
Well sounds like the SLI is better, I have windows 7 and here is my system specs https://www.elara.ie/members/viewpwishlist.aspx?wishid=3729 apart from the 2TB HDD. So what your saying is windows is bad at playing games in general? Is there anything I can do to fix that? Or is it just for cards with higher memory?
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Crono on Wed Sep 14th at 3:28am 2011
Posted by Crono on Wed Sep 14th at 3:28am 2011
Windows is bad at everything, in general 
There's not much choice, really, developers refuse to support other platforms due to job and timeline stipulations. Also, on something like Linux, you can't DRM it up. (Since you'd effectively be locking a user out of their own system's inner workings, and that is unacceptable)
There's not a lot you can do, no. You could utilize, in addition to Windows for games, other operating systems and become vocal about it to developers when you can. If people just gave it a proper shot they'd have a better idea of what a disadvantage the closed environment of Windows is.
SLI is just a better bang for your dollar. Also, I don't know of an AMD chipset card manufacturer that offers lifetime warranties on their cards, however, EVGA (who only makes nvidia chipset cards) does on most of their graphics cards.
So, yeah ... you can get any card you like, that board has an Intel chipset, nothing is going to conflict with it. The card I'd suggest is the EVGA GTX 560 Ti that has a lifetime warranty and 1GB of video memory.
I'd suggest doing other upgrades if you can. Like system memory, DDR2 1200 4GB sticks aren't so much now, and getting four (you currently have DDR2 800, you should max out the board speed) wouldn't be so much. However, if you have a 32-bit version of Windows (or any OS) it will not recognize or use more than 3GB for windows and 4GB for the rest of the OS world. It has to be 64-bit.
You can also upgrade the CPU, but frankly, Core 2 Quad processors for LGA775 cost an arm and a leg ... if you can get a deal on one, (I wouldn't go for more than 180 euro land ... if my conversion is correct) ... currently it's almost 400 euro! that's insane! You could build a new computer using a Phenom II X4 get a new board, and RAM for that price! (But, Jesus Christ that Core 2 Quad has 12MB of cache!)
So you've got some options, the board isn't bad, in fact if you maxed out the ram and got a nice GPU and maxed out the CPU, it'd still play games very well for several years. The GTX 560 I mentioned is going to be able to play everything available maxed.
The only game I'm not sure about is Battlefield 3 ... just because it's requirements are up there. But, Rage, Skyrim, of course anything source related isn't even an issue.
The only real issue I see is ... if you wanted to SLI ... you'd have to build a new system. That board doesn't feature it at all (or crossfire for that matter) there's only one PCI-E slot. Which ... may mean you might want to get something better than what I'm suggesting, the only issue is then you're breaking the $250 USD (and equivalent) barrier and not just by like $50, by like $100. It's usually not worth it for what amounts to 10fps difference.
It's not a bad setup, with a minor upgrade you'd be set for at least another couple years. Max out the ram with DDR2 1200 4GB sticks (four of them, should be around 120 euro, if it'd be higher: it's too expensive), see if you can get a good deal on a Core 2 Quad LGA 775 socket (200 Euro max), and a new GPU and this would be a pretty rocking rig.
There's not much choice, really, developers refuse to support other platforms due to job and timeline stipulations. Also, on something like Linux, you can't DRM it up. (Since you'd effectively be locking a user out of their own system's inner workings, and that is unacceptable)
There's not a lot you can do, no. You could utilize, in addition to Windows for games, other operating systems and become vocal about it to developers when you can. If people just gave it a proper shot they'd have a better idea of what a disadvantage the closed environment of Windows is.
SLI is just a better bang for your dollar. Also, I don't know of an AMD chipset card manufacturer that offers lifetime warranties on their cards, however, EVGA (who only makes nvidia chipset cards) does on most of their graphics cards.
So, yeah ... you can get any card you like, that board has an Intel chipset, nothing is going to conflict with it. The card I'd suggest is the EVGA GTX 560 Ti that has a lifetime warranty and 1GB of video memory.
I'd suggest doing other upgrades if you can. Like system memory, DDR2 1200 4GB sticks aren't so much now, and getting four (you currently have DDR2 800, you should max out the board speed) wouldn't be so much. However, if you have a 32-bit version of Windows (or any OS) it will not recognize or use more than 3GB for windows and 4GB for the rest of the OS world. It has to be 64-bit.
You can also upgrade the CPU, but frankly, Core 2 Quad processors for LGA775 cost an arm and a leg ... if you can get a deal on one, (I wouldn't go for more than 180 euro land ... if my conversion is correct) ... currently it's almost 400 euro! that's insane! You could build a new computer using a Phenom II X4 get a new board, and RAM for that price! (But, Jesus Christ that Core 2 Quad has 12MB of cache!)
So you've got some options, the board isn't bad, in fact if you maxed out the ram and got a nice GPU and maxed out the CPU, it'd still play games very well for several years. The GTX 560 I mentioned is going to be able to play everything available maxed.
The only game I'm not sure about is Battlefield 3 ... just because it's requirements are up there. But, Rage, Skyrim, of course anything source related isn't even an issue.
The only real issue I see is ... if you wanted to SLI ... you'd have to build a new system. That board doesn't feature it at all (or crossfire for that matter) there's only one PCI-E slot. Which ... may mean you might want to get something better than what I'm suggesting, the only issue is then you're breaking the $250 USD (and equivalent) barrier and not just by like $50, by like $100. It's usually not worth it for what amounts to 10fps difference.
It's not a bad setup, with a minor upgrade you'd be set for at least another couple years. Max out the ram with DDR2 1200 4GB sticks (four of them, should be around 120 euro, if it'd be higher: it's too expensive), see if you can get a good deal on a Core 2 Quad LGA 775 socket (200 Euro max), and a new GPU and this would be a pretty rocking rig.
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Wed Sep 14th at 6:35am 2011
Posted by tornados2111 on Wed Sep 14th at 6:35am 2011
So if I buy GTX 560 Ti and I want a SLI does that mean buying another one and conecting it to the first 560Ti?
Well I was planning on upgrading more parts of my pc anyway since im upgrading my graphics card. On the name of my motherboard it says DDR2, does that mean that it doesn't support any higher? So will i need to upgrade my motherboard aswell? I do have a 32-bit system, to be honest don't really know the difference but would it be recomemned for gaming performance to get a 64?
Whats the cache mean? and is 12 MB good?
And another question, what is the Core 2 Quad LGA 775 socket? Is it a processor with 8 cores? or how does it work? im thinking 4x2=8? what does the LGA mean? Another thing I'm a bit worried about is the power supply, will everything get enough power? the video card, the processor? or perhaps it has something to do with the amount of watts flowing through the mother board that will restrict power to these components, Thanks
Well I was planning on upgrading more parts of my pc anyway since im upgrading my graphics card. On the name of my motherboard it says DDR2, does that mean that it doesn't support any higher? So will i need to upgrade my motherboard aswell? I do have a 32-bit system, to be honest don't really know the difference but would it be recomemned for gaming performance to get a 64?
Whats the cache mean? and is 12 MB good?
And another question, what is the Core 2 Quad LGA 775 socket? Is it a processor with 8 cores? or how does it work? im thinking 4x2=8? what does the LGA mean? Another thing I'm a bit worried about is the power supply, will everything get enough power? the video card, the processor? or perhaps it has something to do with the amount of watts flowing through the mother board that will restrict power to these components, Thanks
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by sgtfly on Wed Sep 14th at 12:01pm 2011
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Posted by sgtfly on Wed Sep 14th at 12:01pm 2011
You relly don't need Sli unless your gaming @ very high res,ie. 2560x1600
Then your talking thousand dollar monitors to run that resolution.
A single GTX 560 Ti will be just fine for any game, or go with a 570.
Then your talking thousand dollar monitors to run that resolution.
A single GTX 560 Ti will be just fine for any game, or go with a 570.
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Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Sep 14th at 2:03pm 2011
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Posted by Orpheus on Wed Sep 14th at 2:03pm 2011
I've been wondering this same thing of late. Many cards are 1 and 2 gig of ram now days. I cannot see any game in the foreseeable future (the life of your current PC) exceeding that limit. Other than bragging rights of money spent, what use would two cards be for the average Joe?
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Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Wed Sep 14th at 2:47pm 2011
Posted by tornados2111 on Wed Sep 14th at 2:47pm 2011
Crono, do you have a facebook or steam through which we can chat? I feel like this is being delayed to much and just chatting of maybe 15 mins can answer all of my questions.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Crono on Wed Sep 14th at 9:42pm 2011
Posted by Crono on Wed Sep 14th at 9:42pm 2011
My steam info is on every single one of my posts ... it's the HL2 logo, and I'm part of the SnarkPit steam group.
Ok, first thing is first ... SLI isn't necessary. I was just talking about longevity if you wanted to it in the future. It isn't really going to help, like sgtfly said, until you get into very high resolutions.
However, that doesn't necessarily mean a multi-card solution wouldn't be helpful ... generally speaking.
The 570 really doesn't perform THAT much better for the $150 USD or whatever extra price tag.
Also ... it's a quad core (4) not Octacore, or whatever. I don't know where you got 8?
You really shouldn't bother with obsessing over getting "the best", which kind of seems like what you want ... you can't get the best, the best isn't consumer level, so don't worry about it. Get what you NEED to play the games you want to play the way you want to play them. That's it. Feel free to hit me up sometimes on steam or whatever. If I don't answer it means I'm not there.
I would like to note, I'd LOVE to have a LFD monitor running at those max resolutions ... so gorgeous. You'd be all like, "pfft, HD is so low res".
Orpheus, the cards aren't as simple as you're thinking. Like I said before, performance doesn't scale arbitrarily based on memory size (note: video memory is not necessarily random access, the time latency becomes too high)
The idea is, the more memory you have the larger textures or more textures you can store in the memory. In games, a texture can be used to describe anything. They're basically a big 2D array, or matrix. So, you can store color data, or normal data, or even geometry modification and location data. So, technically speaking, yeah if you had a boatload of video memory you should be able to scale everything up automatically to higher or highest resolutions possible.
HOWEVER, there's a bit of a demon lurking in this issue. Most games PREEMPTIVELY limit this from happening. Meaning, they don't even check or OFFER higher resolution versions of things.
There's a reason why dynamic shadows in a lot of games even on PC look gross and aliased, they're using a process called shadow maps, which uses a texture based shadow model, and the texture just ... isn't very high resolution. The issue being ... they have no higher option. Even in valve games, they do this. And your card can't explicitly run anti-aliasing just on the shadow map. (Or no one has implemented something like that)
It should really bother you that this happens. You look at a gorgeous game and suddenly there are aliasing artifacts everywhere that have nothing to do with geometry, but other aspects of the scene being rendered, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
The only thing you can really hope for ... is for developers to FINALLY get out of their console only mindset and develop something that will properly utilize PC (Rage and Battlefield 3 might be the first games in a while that do this) For a long time developers have been treating PC just as a really powerful console, but not really changing the way they make their games ... this is why, frankly, any mid-level card will run everything on the market for a long time. No one is pushing any barriers.
Seriously, like the last game to push any technology barriers was Crysis 1, and that game came out FOUR years ago. Four years!
So, yes, the extra memory can be used, but currently it's not going to be ... on a single card solution.
There is a exception to this though, and that's when a game supports other features, like 3D (actual 3D), physics, and dual card support. This allows you to, in games that support it, pump out a MASSIVE resolution on a game and still run it at 60fps.
And if you haven't played something like Crysis 1 entirely maxed at an enormous resolution running at 60fps, you really haven't seen where graphics capabilities were and should be far beyond. (It's glorious!)
It also allows you to, currently, do other neat stuff like triple monitors. All this requires a good percentage more of memory to store the needed data.
So it's not USELESS ... but some cards that have it ... really aren't going to use it based on what the GPU can utilize realistically ... at least when playing games. (This doesn't consider other applications like CGI work or real-time graphics programming)
Ok, first thing is first ... SLI isn't necessary. I was just talking about longevity if you wanted to it in the future. It isn't really going to help, like sgtfly said, until you get into very high resolutions.
However, that doesn't necessarily mean a multi-card solution wouldn't be helpful ... generally speaking.
The 570 really doesn't perform THAT much better for the $150 USD or whatever extra price tag.
Also ... it's a quad core (4) not Octacore, or whatever. I don't know where you got 8?
You really shouldn't bother with obsessing over getting "the best", which kind of seems like what you want ... you can't get the best, the best isn't consumer level, so don't worry about it. Get what you NEED to play the games you want to play the way you want to play them. That's it. Feel free to hit me up sometimes on steam or whatever. If I don't answer it means I'm not there.
I would like to note, I'd LOVE to have a LFD monitor running at those max resolutions ... so gorgeous. You'd be all like, "pfft, HD is so low res".
Orpheus, the cards aren't as simple as you're thinking. Like I said before, performance doesn't scale arbitrarily based on memory size (note: video memory is not necessarily random access, the time latency becomes too high)
The idea is, the more memory you have the larger textures or more textures you can store in the memory. In games, a texture can be used to describe anything. They're basically a big 2D array, or matrix. So, you can store color data, or normal data, or even geometry modification and location data. So, technically speaking, yeah if you had a boatload of video memory you should be able to scale everything up automatically to higher or highest resolutions possible.
HOWEVER, there's a bit of a demon lurking in this issue. Most games PREEMPTIVELY limit this from happening. Meaning, they don't even check or OFFER higher resolution versions of things.
There's a reason why dynamic shadows in a lot of games even on PC look gross and aliased, they're using a process called shadow maps, which uses a texture based shadow model, and the texture just ... isn't very high resolution. The issue being ... they have no higher option. Even in valve games, they do this. And your card can't explicitly run anti-aliasing just on the shadow map. (Or no one has implemented something like that)
It should really bother you that this happens. You look at a gorgeous game and suddenly there are aliasing artifacts everywhere that have nothing to do with geometry, but other aspects of the scene being rendered, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.
The only thing you can really hope for ... is for developers to FINALLY get out of their console only mindset and develop something that will properly utilize PC (Rage and Battlefield 3 might be the first games in a while that do this) For a long time developers have been treating PC just as a really powerful console, but not really changing the way they make their games ... this is why, frankly, any mid-level card will run everything on the market for a long time. No one is pushing any barriers.
Seriously, like the last game to push any technology barriers was Crysis 1, and that game came out FOUR years ago. Four years!
So, yes, the extra memory can be used, but currently it's not going to be ... on a single card solution.
There is a exception to this though, and that's when a game supports other features, like 3D (actual 3D), physics, and dual card support. This allows you to, in games that support it, pump out a MASSIVE resolution on a game and still run it at 60fps.
And if you haven't played something like Crysis 1 entirely maxed at an enormous resolution running at 60fps, you really haven't seen where graphics capabilities were and should be far beyond. (It's glorious!)
It also allows you to, currently, do other neat stuff like triple monitors. All this requires a good percentage more of memory to store the needed data.
So it's not USELESS ... but some cards that have it ... really aren't going to use it based on what the GPU can utilize realistically ... at least when playing games. (This doesn't consider other applications like CGI work or real-time graphics programming)
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Sep 14th at 9:59pm 2011
Orpheus
member
13860 posts
1547 snarkmarks
Registered: Aug 26th 2001
Location: Long Oklahoma - USA
Occupation: Long Haul Trucking
The best things in life, aren't things.
Posted by Orpheus on Wed Sep 14th at 9:59pm 2011
Coolness. It'll be a while before I'm ready to upgrade but I'll check with you before then on whats new at that time.
Thanx Adam
Thanx Adam
Orpheus
member
13860 posts
1547 snarkmarks
Registered: Aug 26th 2001
Location: Long Oklahoma - USA
Occupation: Long Haul Trucking
The best things in life, aren't things.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Thu Sep 15th at 6:05am 2011
Posted by tornados2111 on Thu Sep 15th at 6:05am 2011
When I click the link, it says ERROR 
(i got 8 from 2 quad, it says 2 quad)
and im not trying to get the best, just want to make sure i'm getting the best cost/performance
(i got 8 from 2 quad, it says 2 quad)
and im not trying to get the best, just want to make sure i'm getting the best cost/performance
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Crono on Thu Sep 15th at 6:45am 2011
Posted by Crono on Thu Sep 15th at 6:45am 2011
Oh, it's just the way Intel named the last generation of processors. They were called the Core 2. Then Duo for dual core and quad for quad core.
I can see how that can be confusing.
You can reach me on steam through adamnaser@comcast.net, I'm also on the snarkpit list.
Also, no problem, I'm all for bang for your buck. It's the reason I suggest the parts I do as opposed to others that may bench-test better, but are massively more expensive.
At the end of the day, you're not crunching RSA codes or calculating Pi, you're playing games and the bar for entry isn't very high.
Cool note, I just found out that the AMD 990FX and 990X chipsets now fully support nvidia SLI. Which is awesome. The limitations of board selection are pretty much gone if you want an AMD + Nvidia system. Coupling this with the chips AMD is launching a little later this year ... it might soon be an EXCELLENT time to rebuild a system. (The upcoming AMD chips are 8 physical core processors, one of which recently set the work record for overclocking at 8.4 Ghz. And, the cheapest octocore CPU they're shipping is in $210 USD land ... which is in the same price range as Intel i5s ... making them a killer option)
I can see how that can be confusing.
You can reach me on steam through adamnaser@comcast.net, I'm also on the snarkpit list.
Also, no problem, I'm all for bang for your buck. It's the reason I suggest the parts I do as opposed to others that may bench-test better, but are massively more expensive.
At the end of the day, you're not crunching RSA codes or calculating Pi, you're playing games and the bar for entry isn't very high.
Cool note, I just found out that the AMD 990FX and 990X chipsets now fully support nvidia SLI. Which is awesome. The limitations of board selection are pretty much gone if you want an AMD + Nvidia system. Coupling this with the chips AMD is launching a little later this year ... it might soon be an EXCELLENT time to rebuild a system. (The upcoming AMD chips are 8 physical core processors, one of which recently set the work record for overclocking at 8.4 Ghz. And, the cheapest octocore CPU they're shipping is in $210 USD land ... which is in the same price range as Intel i5s ... making them a killer option)
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by sgtfly on Thu Sep 15th at 11:37am 2011
sgtfly
member
273 posts
162 snarkmarks
Registered: Jan 24th 2005
Location: Batavia,IL USA
Occupation: 5 more years of BS and I'm done. WOOHOO!
Posted by sgtfly on Thu Sep 15th at 11:37am 2011
To make it simple, just check benchmarks on current games running todays hardware.
Basicaly anything running over 60 FPS on them is very acceptable. That will give you a good idea of what you might consider getting. Human eye and brain sees smoothly @ above 30 FPS, it might be lower, but anyway if it doesn't stutter your good.
I should mention you do need to think about all components not just GPU or CPU. The PSU needs to have enuff to power it all too. And memory is important one the most in IMHO.
Really for gaming a 2500k or 2600k will last a long time and fairly cheap too.
Actually right now I'm building a new comp:
i7 975 extreme
Asus Sabertooth MB
12 gig mem
120 ssd 1 1tb hdd
Vid card will probably be a gtx 580 or radeon 6970 not sure yet
At least a 1000w psu
This is definitely overkill for gaming but I do alot of photoshop and 3d work, and wanted hyperthreading.
I haven't forgot my M1A2 tank but I don't have an exporter for Modo so I'm waiting on my sil to export it for me.
Basicaly anything running over 60 FPS on them is very acceptable. That will give you a good idea of what you might consider getting. Human eye and brain sees smoothly @ above 30 FPS, it might be lower, but anyway if it doesn't stutter your good.
I should mention you do need to think about all components not just GPU or CPU. The PSU needs to have enuff to power it all too. And memory is important one the most in IMHO.
Really for gaming a 2500k or 2600k will last a long time and fairly cheap too.
Actually right now I'm building a new comp:
i7 975 extreme
Asus Sabertooth MB
12 gig mem
120 ssd 1 1tb hdd
Vid card will probably be a gtx 580 or radeon 6970 not sure yet
At least a 1000w psu
This is definitely overkill for gaming but I do alot of photoshop and 3d work, and wanted hyperthreading.
I haven't forgot my M1A2 tank but I don't have an exporter for Modo so I'm waiting on my sil to export it for me.
sgtfly
member
273 posts
162 snarkmarks
Registered: Jan 24th 2005
Location: Batavia,IL USA
Occupation: 5 more years of BS and I'm done. WOOHOO!
Light is faster than sound:That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Your riches in life are family and friends, everything else is just a distraction.
Your riches in life are family and friends, everything else is just a distraction.
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