I have a Nvidia 9800gt video card, a good while ago I started geting these white lines in source engine games such as counter strike source, team fortress 2 and half life 2. Specifically white lines when I look at for example stairs, I am the same hight as one of the steps so on that step, since the step is exatly the same height i know that wen i look at the step behind it there is a texture, thats where the white lines appear, this probably makes no sence so here are some screenshots http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596941143010705795/9164558ED6213D06FBEA5251FCBF152D37C33A6C/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596942125469648707/C5215B8A33F419A1333088CAF9728D1AE5B6D3BD/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596941143010703277/05F8BF60CBE93E9876055D1967C7835C5826A90F/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596941143010704643/2CA029F9EFCE5E7866D159D207D045ACB84FEC6D/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596941143010705196/C416565984854BE49F707B08D72B8F570F99D718/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596941143010706349/A262B3E8D1D26960FB92C5C75D5D2E2D41C174B2/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596941143010704028/6103EDBBB29BA789D3D5E34552F6381B244FD565/
doesnt look like a big problem but its very noticable on my res. i have tried redownloading, reinstalling windows (7), trying other drivers which has helped slightly,and one thing that helped alot was turning AA on full, makes the line thinner, but i dont want to play with AA on full because my video card is not fit for that. The white lines flicker and move when changing the distance and viewing angle. Where its very noticable is in half life 2 when you are in the water, you float and the your eyes are exactly in line with the top of the water which makes a big white line all around you. Any help would be much appreciated, Any questions, please ask
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Crono on Tue Aug 23rd at 11:45pm 2011
Posted by Crono on Tue Aug 23rd at 11:45pm 2011
I don't see any issue in the screenshots.
Can you take some more that show off the issue clearly?
Can you take some more that show off the issue clearly?
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Tue Aug 23rd at 11:49pm 2011
Posted by tornados2111 on Tue Aug 23rd at 11:49pm 2011
Does noone see the problem?
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Crono on Tue Aug 23rd at 11:50pm 2011
Posted by Crono on Tue Aug 23rd at 11:50pm 2011
All I see is the normal map reflection on the stairs ... which is suppose to be there, that's how the game looks.
If you can take shots that show a more dramatic example I'd be able to help more.
If you can take shots that show a more dramatic example I'd be able to help more.
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Niborius on Wed Aug 24th at 6:44am 2011
Posted by Niborius on Wed Aug 24th at 6:44am 2011
he is talking about the white pixels, which look like lines if you look around in the game. I've never seen this before though
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/Nibgames
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Wed Aug 24th at 10:40am 2011
Il take some more pictures, of for example half life 2, I own this game on steam but it is not currently downloaded, I cannot download it because I have almost reached my download limit, but i will download it at the begining of September
Posted by tornados2111 on Wed Aug 24th at 10:40am 2011
Quoting Crono
All I see is the normal map reflection on the stairs ... which is suppose to be there, that's how the game looks.
If you can take shots that show a more dramatic example I'd be able to help more.
If you can take shots that show a more dramatic example I'd be able to help more.
Il take some more pictures, of for example half life 2, I own this game on steam but it is not currently downloaded, I cannot download it because I have almost reached my download limit, but i will download it at the begining of September
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Crono on Wed Aug 24th at 5:40pm 2011
Oh! I see it now! The white pixels up on the wall. I honestly thought there was some crap on my monitor or something >_>
OK, generally speaking stuff like that is either areas of the map not meeting properly (doesn't happen for anyone else on that map, though) OR something more likely since it's just you experiencing this in more than one game, you're getting artifacts.
Artifacts happen when various components are at too high of a temperature for proper operation. The memory or processor (usually on the video card) components are not able to keep the integrity of the voltage value in check, as a result, incorrect values are sent out and rendered resulting in funky stuff.
There is a pattern though, depending on what area overheats. Pixels being wrong colors is video memory.
I'd suggest checking video card temps, cleaning out your computer and the card's heat sync thoroughly. Airflow in the case is, also, very important for proper GPU performance, it's something a lot of people overlook.
If it's an nvidia card, get something like EVGA precision, it'll allow you to also check fan speed.
It turns out a lot of GPUs are sent out with their fan speed at about 30%. They're SUPPOSE to dynamically clock up at a hardware level ... but usually don't. They will respond to software control though.
It'd be helpful if you list what kind of card you have. I'll be able to check to see if it has any pitfalls (like memory that isn't cooled at all) and maybe some suggestions to help you out.
But try the other stuff in the meantime.
Posted by Crono on Wed Aug 24th at 5:40pm 2011
Quoting Niborius
he is talking about the white pixels, which look like lines if you look around in the game. I've never seen this before though
Oh! I see it now! The white pixels up on the wall. I honestly thought there was some crap on my monitor or something >_>
OK, generally speaking stuff like that is either areas of the map not meeting properly (doesn't happen for anyone else on that map, though) OR something more likely since it's just you experiencing this in more than one game, you're getting artifacts.
Artifacts happen when various components are at too high of a temperature for proper operation. The memory or processor (usually on the video card) components are not able to keep the integrity of the voltage value in check, as a result, incorrect values are sent out and rendered resulting in funky stuff.
There is a pattern though, depending on what area overheats. Pixels being wrong colors is video memory.
I'd suggest checking video card temps, cleaning out your computer and the card's heat sync thoroughly. Airflow in the case is, also, very important for proper GPU performance, it's something a lot of people overlook.
If it's an nvidia card, get something like EVGA precision, it'll allow you to also check fan speed.
It turns out a lot of GPUs are sent out with their fan speed at about 30%. They're SUPPOSE to dynamically clock up at a hardware level ... but usually don't. They will respond to software control though.
It'd be helpful if you list what kind of card you have. I'll be able to check to see if it has any pitfalls (like memory that isn't cooled at all) and maybe some suggestions to help you out.
But try the other stuff in the meantime.
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Wed Aug 24th at 7:00pm 2011
Posted by tornados2111 on Wed Aug 24th at 7:00pm 2011
Thanks very much for the answer first of all, I am not sure but if its a overheating problem then wouldn't it become more noticable after more use? as in i start playing, I cant see the problem, 10 mins later it becomes visible? It stays the same the whole time. I have a 9800 gt with 512mb of memory, anything else thats important in a video card? What do u meen by cleaning my computer, u meen like making sure theres no dust? I keep the case always open for better air circulation, and with this program can i change the fan speed to over 30%? and again thanks for the reply
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Crono on Thu Aug 25th at 8:04am 2011
Posted by Crono on Thu Aug 25th at 8:04am 2011
Yes, remove dust from the components. It clogs up the heat syncs and causes them to reduce air flow and retain more heat.
Having the case open ... actually reduces air flow and raises temperatures on most cases. You want a wind tunnel going on.
Who made the 9800? Most of them do cool the memory, but it's blowing the air back into the case (unless you got one of the external exhaust models)
Overheating doesn't work that way. The card is working hard even before you actually see something rendered on screen. It reaches temperature in milliseconds, not minutes. The heat isn't like when you run an engine or something, it's from the density of components and the amount of energy being pumped through them. The energy conversion isn't perfect, as a result heat is a byproduct and let off. This happens when they are used ... every time ... there's no time delay or anything like that.
The program I discussed allows you to do more than that. You can create a profile to dynamically clock the card based on temperature. The 9000 series is the one I've experienced this the most with, too.
A friend's 9600 card was having heat problems, I borrowed it, used the precision software and found it was running at 30% speed, stock. You'll want to crank it to 100% while playing stuff. The card I had, which runs cooler than the 9800, was idling around 60ºC at 30%. At 100% it was idling around 45ºC and at peak load was reaching 58ºC so .. yeah it makes a difference.
To note, GPU temperatures are the GPU, not the memory modules. You can assume the memory modules are the same temperature, or even higher.
It's a very complex system, the video card ... so there's a lot of funky things that can happen.
The 9XXX series GeForce have stock fan issues with default speed, I really suggest you check it out ASAP and definitely get in there with some compressed air and clean all the dust out.
If the card is out of warranty ... or they support you doing this ... I'd STRONGLY recommend taking the heat-sync off cleaning off the existing thermal paste and applying new better thermal paste.
Thermal Paste (compound) used on parts is generally shit. It's about the bare minimum heat capacitance. A lot of times they work better as insulators than heat conductors.
That's really something everyone should consider, that'll yield even lower temperatures.
If you do all this and you still have the artifact ... start checking other games to see if you can see something similar, if you can ... then there's a chance the card is permanently damaged (though if that happens it's usually much more prominent) if not, it still could be something else ... but it seems unlikely.
Having the case open ... actually reduces air flow and raises temperatures on most cases. You want a wind tunnel going on.
Who made the 9800? Most of them do cool the memory, but it's blowing the air back into the case (unless you got one of the external exhaust models)
Overheating doesn't work that way. The card is working hard even before you actually see something rendered on screen. It reaches temperature in milliseconds, not minutes. The heat isn't like when you run an engine or something, it's from the density of components and the amount of energy being pumped through them. The energy conversion isn't perfect, as a result heat is a byproduct and let off. This happens when they are used ... every time ... there's no time delay or anything like that.
The program I discussed allows you to do more than that. You can create a profile to dynamically clock the card based on temperature. The 9000 series is the one I've experienced this the most with, too.
A friend's 9600 card was having heat problems, I borrowed it, used the precision software and found it was running at 30% speed, stock. You'll want to crank it to 100% while playing stuff. The card I had, which runs cooler than the 9800, was idling around 60ºC at 30%. At 100% it was idling around 45ºC and at peak load was reaching 58ºC so .. yeah it makes a difference.
To note, GPU temperatures are the GPU, not the memory modules. You can assume the memory modules are the same temperature, or even higher.
It's a very complex system, the video card ... so there's a lot of funky things that can happen.
The 9XXX series GeForce have stock fan issues with default speed, I really suggest you check it out ASAP and definitely get in there with some compressed air and clean all the dust out.
If the card is out of warranty ... or they support you doing this ... I'd STRONGLY recommend taking the heat-sync off cleaning off the existing thermal paste and applying new better thermal paste.
Thermal Paste (compound) used on parts is generally shit. It's about the bare minimum heat capacitance. A lot of times they work better as insulators than heat conductors.
That's really something everyone should consider, that'll yield even lower temperatures.
If you do all this and you still have the artifact ... start checking other games to see if you can see something similar, if you can ... then there's a chance the card is permanently damaged (though if that happens it's usually much more prominent) if not, it still could be something else ... but it seems unlikely.
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Thu Aug 25th at 3:08pm 2011
Posted by tornados2111 on Thu Aug 25th at 3:08pm 2011
I will be sure to clean it and close the case. Its made by asustek, and the full model name is ASUSTEK - ECE1900296 - EN9800GT/DI/512MD3/A VGA GF9800GT PCIE 512MB 256bit DS 1XDVI, dont know if that makes any sence to you.
What is the thermal paste?
What is the thermal paste?
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Thu Aug 25th at 6:42pm 2011
Posted by tornados2111 on Thu Aug 25th at 6:42pm 2011
I cleaned the video card, not sure if it helped, and got a different programme that allows you to change the fan speed, called rivatuner, set the fan speed to 100% started playing and still the same problem 
don't know if thats the problem, at the start of september i will download more drivers and try them out
don't know if thats the problem, at the start of september i will download more drivers and try them out
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Crono on Fri Aug 26th at 4:22am 2011
Posted by Crono on Fri Aug 26th at 4:22am 2011
Thermal Paste, Thermal Compound, Thermal Grease ... are all pretty interchangeable names for the same thing.
It's the soft substance you put between a chip and it's heat sync to make thermal contact between the two.
Depending on how quality the thermal compound is it can act as a very good heat conductor or a thermal insulator (very poor heat conductor). Of course, the idea is to allow as much thermal conductivity as possible to let the fan cool the heat sync down rapidly so it can absorb more heat from the chip it's cooling, as a result keeping the chip at a much cooler operating temperature.
The only difference between using a fan and liquid cooling, to note, is liquid absorbs more heat per volume unit than air. This is one of the reasons the planet Earth, for example, is kept at a pretty reasonable temperature on all sides all the time. In the sun, the bodies of water absorb the bulk of the sun's heat, and in the absence of the sun (at night) they release it. /sciencetalk
Yes, the make of the GPU helps. It looks like the GPU memory is cooled ... so I'm not sure. My friend's 7800 had a similar issue and his memory was cooled as well (it's toast now)
It could be component failure, that's always an option, or driver issues, or a quirk in the game.
The best way to really determine if it's the video card or not ... see if you can get a friend to help you out and bring over their GPU that's capable of running these games in your system and see if the artifacts still exist, if they do: it's not the video card.
It's just about the quickest way to find out ... all the advice I gave before is still good advice and things you should do anyway. You should really clean out your rig at least once a month. Dust and dirt builds up fast.
If you have places you can put case fans, but don't ... you should consider it. You want to have a strong wind flow going, though.
It's the soft substance you put between a chip and it's heat sync to make thermal contact between the two.
Depending on how quality the thermal compound is it can act as a very good heat conductor or a thermal insulator (very poor heat conductor). Of course, the idea is to allow as much thermal conductivity as possible to let the fan cool the heat sync down rapidly so it can absorb more heat from the chip it's cooling, as a result keeping the chip at a much cooler operating temperature.
The only difference between using a fan and liquid cooling, to note, is liquid absorbs more heat per volume unit than air. This is one of the reasons the planet Earth, for example, is kept at a pretty reasonable temperature on all sides all the time. In the sun, the bodies of water absorb the bulk of the sun's heat, and in the absence of the sun (at night) they release it. /sciencetalk
Yes, the make of the GPU helps. It looks like the GPU memory is cooled ... so I'm not sure. My friend's 7800 had a similar issue and his memory was cooled as well (it's toast now)
It could be component failure, that's always an option, or driver issues, or a quirk in the game.
The best way to really determine if it's the video card or not ... see if you can get a friend to help you out and bring over their GPU that's capable of running these games in your system and see if the artifacts still exist, if they do: it's not the video card.
It's just about the quickest way to find out ... all the advice I gave before is still good advice and things you should do anyway. You should really clean out your rig at least once a month. Dust and dirt builds up fast.
If you have places you can put case fans, but don't ... you should consider it. You want to have a strong wind flow going, though.
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Thu Sep 1st at 4:49pm 2011
Posted by tornados2111 on Thu Sep 1st at 4:49pm 2011
I want to uninstall my drivers. I have Ccleaner. Would that do? or does anyone have any suggestions on a better program?
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Crono on Thu Sep 1st at 7:09pm 2011
Posted by Crono on Thu Sep 1st at 7:09pm 2011
Use nvidia's tool. It's embedded with their driver installer. Just download the newest one for your card and go through the process, when it asks, say "completely remove previous driver"
Removing the driver entirely and going from there isn't a very good idea, you can get stuck with no video or just software.
Generally speaking, driver cleaners aren't recommended, (same for registry cleaners), it's not because they don't remove the files, its because they remove ALL the files. It doesn't have accurate profile data per driver manufacturer and iteration, so there's no way for it to go, "oh, this file, but not this one" it just eliminates anything related to it, which is dangerous.
Just use nvidia's installer to remove it, it'll do its job. But it doesn't sound like a driver issue. Driver issues don't really result in graphical artifacts but everything else working fine ... that sounds like card damage.
Removing the driver entirely and going from there isn't a very good idea, you can get stuck with no video or just software.
Generally speaking, driver cleaners aren't recommended, (same for registry cleaners), it's not because they don't remove the files, its because they remove ALL the files. It doesn't have accurate profile data per driver manufacturer and iteration, so there's no way for it to go, "oh, this file, but not this one" it just eliminates anything related to it, which is dangerous.
Just use nvidia's installer to remove it, it'll do its job. But it doesn't sound like a driver issue. Driver issues don't really result in graphical artifacts but everything else working fine ... that sounds like card damage.
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Wed Sep 7th at 3:34pm 2011
Posted by tornados2111 on Wed Sep 7th at 3:34pm 2011
http://steamcommunity.com/id/tabramski/screenshot/595822077633781580 scroll through and note that u can still see the while line(watch in full res, its a button on the right) and heres another 1 from tf2 http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/595822077633328243/486BA3965C8B6917CAF36290F0182E4F9AAE325C/
I have installed the latest driver, doesn't help, and i'm not sure its safe to use the thermal paste, as you probably know by know i'm not exactly the computer expert
I have installed the latest driver, doesn't help, and i'm not sure its safe to use the thermal paste, as you probably know by know i'm not exactly the computer expert
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Crono on Wed Sep 7th at 9:06pm 2011
Posted by Crono on Wed Sep 7th at 9:06pm 2011
Yeah, that looks like graphical artifacts due to hardware. I can't really help you ... I mean ... I already explained all the steps for handling it, if you don't want or can't do them ...
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Thu Sep 8th at 6:05pm 2011
Posted by tornados2111 on Thu Sep 8th at 6:05pm 2011
I'm not trying to say thats not the problem but when I turned the fan to 100% it didn't help.just something else i noticed was that when I turn off AA i get white dots everywhere on the floor, and another thing which i'm not sure weather is supposed to happen or not but when i zoom in with the sniper in darker areas i get a quick blink before i zoom in. Also is this thermal paste expensive? and is it likely find online tutorials with the EXACT same hardware?
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Crono on Thu Sep 8th at 7:59pm 2011
Posted by Crono on Thu Sep 8th at 7:59pm 2011
Applying thermal paste is the same regardless of hardware. Remove heat sync (there are screws) clean off old paste using 100% alcohol or something as such, dry it off, apply new paste (can look at videos on how to apply paste properly, it's not so hard). The paste it self depends on how much it goes for in your area. Artic Silver 5 goes for about $8 a tube here and one tube lasts for about 3-4 chips.
However, you still haven't said what the GPU temperature is registering at.
In any case, it doesn't sound like it matters much. By the sound of it you're having video memory corruption and it sounds like it's already damaged the chips. I had the same thing happen to me, and it's not fun. It'll just get progressively worse until the card ultimately fails.
It doesn't sound like GPU errors. If it were GPU errors you'd get things like stretched polygons everywhere ... no everything you're experiencing is related to something stored in video memory.
If you have a warranty on the card, use it. If you don't you can look for alternative heatsyncs that may cool all the parts better ... or you can just look for a replacement ... but it sounds like the card is already damaged, which can't be fixed without replacing components.
However, you still haven't said what the GPU temperature is registering at.
In any case, it doesn't sound like it matters much. By the sound of it you're having video memory corruption and it sounds like it's already damaged the chips. I had the same thing happen to me, and it's not fun. It'll just get progressively worse until the card ultimately fails.
It doesn't sound like GPU errors. If it were GPU errors you'd get things like stretched polygons everywhere ... no everything you're experiencing is related to something stored in video memory.
If you have a warranty on the card, use it. If you don't you can look for alternative heatsyncs that may cool all the parts better ... or you can just look for a replacement ... but it sounds like the card is already damaged, which can't be fixed without replacing components.
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by tornados2111 on Thu Sep 8th at 8:20pm 2011
Posted by tornados2111 on Thu Sep 8th at 8:20pm 2011
is the heat sync the fan part without the golden-coloured metal circle? So is this Artic Silver a good enough quality? and what do you meen by 3-4 chips? how many chips do i need to do? Sorry the programme doesn't show the temperature, and i'm not really bothered since its not that important, i just wana fix it. Don't have a warranty anymore, its out of date. And another question is there a high risk of perhaps a drop of paste getting somewhere which will cause major damage? or any obvios risks like that? And again thanks very much for your help
Re: White lines in source engine
Posted by Orpheus on Thu Sep 8th at 9:43pm 2011
Orpheus
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Posted by Orpheus on Thu Sep 8th at 9:43pm 2011
I haven't been keeping up with this thread but the heat sink is the gizmo above the processor that the cooling system is attached to. Be it a fan or a liquid cooler. Its usually aluminum or copper and has a zillion fins that attract gobs of dust.
If this wasn't your question please feel free to disregard my post.
If this wasn't your question please feel free to disregard my post.
Orpheus
member
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Occupation: Long Haul Trucking
The best things in life, aren't things.
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