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90degree corners
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 Re: 90degree corners
Posted by Wild Card on Sat Apr 28th at 11:10pm 2012

Something came to mind which I had remembered from way back in the HL1 days, about making 90degree corners in maps.

Basically, three ways to make them. See for reference this topic and the screenshot from the OP's first post: http://www.snarkpit.net/index.php?s=forums&f=3&t=6427&no=0

For those of you who've read my Titanic topic, I've run into this error:

Too many unique verts, max = 65536 (map has too much brush geometry)

Im assuming using the technique from the top right for 90degree corners (using 45degree faces) is advantageous when the brushes are on the inside of the corner.

My Titanic map is around 7700 brushes with a lot of these corners. Is remaking these into 45degree faces going to be effective?



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 Re: 90degree corners
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Apr 28th at 11:42pm 2012

My question has always been, does the amount of faces that are broken because solids touch, count as more solids?
If they do, then all of them are gonna cause face splitting. Of them, the bottom one is the least damaging but, IMO has the best odds of creating a leak. However, if you do not let the solid slip off grid, no leaks should occur.

If the faces splitting counts towards the end numerical number than you might try the old func_wall trick. (I don't even remember if HL2 has a func_wall but I bet there is a corresponding workaround)

As long as it is an internal world brush, you should have no chances of leaks.

I am still having issues believing that one ship map can have more geometry than some of those HUGE HL2 maps.



The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: 90degree corners
Posted by Wild Card on Sun Apr 29th at 12:25am 2012

Not sure I came across right. Here's an example screen capture with the 45 degree method on the top and the regular corners I've been making on the bottom.



This is a section of the Boat Deck on the port side just aft of the Bridge and Wheelhouse. On the other side of those brushes, is the Chief Officer's cabin. In either method used above, the inside of the corner is unchanged. But on the outside of the corner, you can see the difference.

To me, the 45 degree method (bottom of the screen shot) seems like the best way to go. But it'll be a lot of work to fix this up. Im just not sure of the beneficial effects that will have (ie: will it resolve my geometry issue?)

Also, practically all of the walls below the Boat Deck and A Deck have to be world brushes as they seal the map.





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 Re: 90degree corners
Posted by Orpheus on Sun Apr 29th at 12:47am 2012

I see what you mean but visually, you could achieve the same view if you brought the red wall in the top forward instead of the way it is with all the pieces showing as it is now.

I see no benefit, nor detriment to the 45* thing but if its pure visual you could get the same if you do what I said.



The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: 90degree corners
Posted by Wild Card on Sun Apr 29th at 2:04am 2012

Updated my image, doing it the way you suggest is better than what I have, but face wise, there is still an extra face as opposed to using 45 degrees. Still, not sure if that really matters or not.





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 Re: 90degree corners
Posted by Wild Card on Sun Apr 29th at 9:10pm 2012

I posted on the VDC. Here's the thread. I ended up doing a sample test map and the results seem to indicate going 45degree faces for the corners are best.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=30528888&postcount=4

In the above example, method 1 and 3 both produce an equal amount of vertices, and method 2 reduces the vertices by about 4.

If Im getting this right..



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 Re: 90degree corners
Posted by G4MER on Mon Apr 30th at 10:34am 2012

Accepted Answer
Miter the Corner, it would remove the extra face.



Like you did in EXAMPLE 2.



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 Re: 90degree corners
Posted by omegaslayer on Thu May 3rd at 4:46am 2012

Assisted Answer
The compiler process goes through a 2 step (well more then that, but for our purposes just 2) process. First it will generate a bsp tree by performing cuts on each brush till a valid bsp tree can be formed, adding more logical brushes/surfaces. Second pass will remove any surfaces that aren't considered in the hull (vis-able to the plater inside the level). The stoppage you're getting to is in step 1. Not step 2. So here is my rundown on the different cornering techniques from understanding the compiler:

1 2
3
1) BSP will cut the left brush into two brushes. Trivial issue.

2) Sometimes the BSP compiler can't be smart enough to determine that you don't want anything cut. The reality is is that one of those brushes might cut the other.

Here is the proof of concept of how a bsp tree is formed (it happens to be relative to the brush order you create, but in bsp compiler its arbitrary):

http://symbolcraft.com/graphics/bsp/

3) Your best option, there is no way in which BSP will cut any extra brushes, because no edge/surface/polygon when extended will cut another surface.

BTW I can't get the compiler working because of a library linking issue. In theory all the libraries were included with the BSP compiler, and I compile those, and I just link against them, but the compiler silently exists because if a missing library issue. Maybe if I tried in an older version of visual studio instead of 2010...


Posting And You



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 Re: 90degree corners
Posted by Wild Card on Sat May 5th at 3:45am 2012

Just got a compile working on my full map. Doing the 45 degree angles certainly saved my butt on this map!!

@omega: Interesting link. A little confusing though :P But Im tired too.

Current map is at 7600 ish brushes, I think for now I will be able to stay below limit, so I dont know if I'll still be needing a compiler with upped limits. I'll keep you posted though




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