Until now, I've based my measurements in Hammer based on this VDC dimensions page: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Dimensions#Source_Engine_Scale_Calculations
However, I noticed that Hammer can change it's units to Feet/inches, and per this page as well, the dimensions are different: https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Hammer_Map_Menu#Units
Whereas the first page states 1 foot is 16 units, the second, and Hammer itself, indicates 1 foot is 12 units.
I have a feeling the latter is true, as this would peg the player height at 6 ft rather than 4 ft 5 in.
I posted this to VDC (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=30698705#post30698705) as well for feedback and Im looking for some extra here.
It looks like I might be spending a long while re-adjusting everything...
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Re: Dimensions
Posted by Wild Card on Fri May 11th at 3:30am 2012
Wild Card
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Posted by Wild Card on Fri May 11th at 3:30am 2012
Wild Card
member
2321 posts
339 snarkmarks
Registered: May 20th 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada
Occupation: IT Consultant
Re: Dimensions
Posted by haymaker on Fri May 11th at 4:27am 2012
Posted by haymaker on Fri May 11th at 4:27am 2012
I've always used the rule that states 1 real world dim is 1 1/3 Hammer dim, so yeah 12in=16units
You can check this in the door templates for example, HL2 door textures are 112 units where a real door jamb is 82 inches.
Perhaps what you're looking at is information for different games with differing FOV, try changing your FOV from default on your maps to see
You can check this in the door templates for example, HL2 door textures are 112 units where a real door jamb is 82 inches.
Perhaps what you're looking at is information for different games with differing FOV, try changing your FOV from default on your maps to see
Re: Dimensions
Posted by Crono on Fri May 11th at 9:55am 2012
Posted by Crono on Fri May 11th at 9:55am 2012
Awhile ago I actually sat down and figured out some real-world to hammer unit conversions based on some moderate assumptions ... one of the key things I found was that a height and width unit was not equal.
The page says a player is 73 units high and 33 units wide (basically). If you use this compared to real-world measurements of an average adult male (assuming U.S.)
Height: 5'10" = 70"
Width: 20"
Converting each to hammer units:
Height: 70" = 73 VU (vertical units)
Width: 20" = 33 HU (horizontal units)
If we reduce to get real-world measurement to 1...
Height: 1" = 1.05 VU
Width: 1" = 1.65 HU
As you can see, they're not the same. This means that things are wider than they should be inside the game world. It's not by much, but it's by enough.
If you use their door measurements, which are 48x108 (no doorjamb) you get:
Height: 6'8" : 108 VU = 80" : 108 VU = 1" : 1.35 VU
Width: 3' : 48 HU = 36" : 48 HU = 1" : 1.33 HU
Which seems somewhat closer ... but the clearance of the player unit is very different.
(With doorjambs: H 82" : 112 VU = 1" : 1.37 VU; 38" : 56 HU = 1" : 1.48 HU)
The point is ... the width units aren't equal to the height units, they are in fact wider.
The page says a player is 73 units high and 33 units wide (basically). If you use this compared to real-world measurements of an average adult male (assuming U.S.)
Height: 5'10" = 70"
Width: 20"
Converting each to hammer units:
Height: 70" = 73 VU (vertical units)
Width: 20" = 33 HU (horizontal units)
If we reduce to get real-world measurement to 1...
Height: 1" = 1.05 VU
Width: 1" = 1.65 HU
As you can see, they're not the same. This means that things are wider than they should be inside the game world. It's not by much, but it's by enough.
If you use their door measurements, which are 48x108 (no doorjamb) you get:
Height: 6'8" : 108 VU = 80" : 108 VU = 1" : 1.35 VU
Width: 3' : 48 HU = 36" : 48 HU = 1" : 1.33 HU
Which seems somewhat closer ... but the clearance of the player unit is very different.
(With doorjambs: H 82" : 112 VU = 1" : 1.37 VU; 38" : 56 HU = 1" : 1.48 HU)
The point is ... the width units aren't equal to the height units, they are in fact wider.
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: Dimensions
Posted by Captain Terror on Fri May 11th at 9:38pm 2012
Posted by Captain Terror on Fri May 11th at 9:38pm 2012
Wow Crono, that has got to be the best breakdown of source units i've read, nice work! =)
Re: Dimensions
Posted by haymaker on Sat May 12th at 2:52am 2012
Posted by haymaker on Sat May 12th at 2:52am 2012
Yeah sticky that
I stand by my theory that game FOV is at play here as well though. Eg default FOV in HL2DM is 90. In RL I can see my fingers appear probably around 65 deg, which makes it somewhere around 130. If a game was to adopt this number, widths would have to be adjusted accordingly, right?
I stand by my theory that game FOV is at play here as well though. Eg default FOV in HL2DM is 90. In RL I can see my fingers appear probably around 65 deg, which makes it somewhere around 130. If a game was to adopt this number, widths would have to be adjusted accordingly, right?
Re: Dimensions
Posted by Crono on Sat May 12th at 3:44am 2012
Posted by Crono on Sat May 12th at 3:44am 2012
Yeah, but they've already accounted for that in their own figures. That's WHY width is more. If it was JUST FOV differences, then everything would A) look very thin, and B) the units would be identical.
Remember I used Valve sourced objects for the base unit sizes, not hammer. (I.e. the player size and door sizes)
Remember I used Valve sourced objects for the base unit sizes, not hammer. (I.e. the player size and door sizes)
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
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