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compiling times
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 Re: compiling times
Posted by alingrecea on Thu Dec 30th at 7:58pm 2004

I am working on some map and during my building and adding and so on and so forth i had this ideea what if it will take couple of hours or days to compile my map. And now i'm thinking on how can i reduce the compiling time? And, has the lighting anything to do with compiling time, and also sky box? Does the vis calculate everything trough skybox, if i make the sky box smaller or a different shape than a box, to shrink the unusable space betwen brushes and the margins of skybox then also vis will have less calculations to do?

And the other thing is. i have seen that texture NODRAW and i am using it on sides of brushes that will not be visible to the player is that going to reduce the memory load in an ingame action or no?





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 Re: compiling times
Posted by Livett on Thu Dec 30th at 8:05pm 2004

Things that reduce my compile times while testing are:

- Setting VIS and RAD on 'Fast'

- Not putting in a skybox (Increases compile time increibly, but you may want a skybox while testing)

- I always find it best to restart computer and run only what needs to be run before I compile so my computer is not lagging in the slightest





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 Re: compiling times
Posted by Livett on Thu Dec 30th at 9:10pm 2004

Also whilst on a website I found that making the backs of brushes nodraw does improve game smoothness because it does not have to render them



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 Re: compiling times
Posted by satchmo on Thu Dec 30th at 9:59pm 2004

Something is seriously wrong with your map if it takes that long to compile. Make sure you have most of your brushes set as func_detail and also learn to use hint brushes.

There is a way to shorten compile time (to just compile a portion of the map instead of the whole map), but there seems to be a bigger problem with the map. Read the SDK documentation on streamlining compilation and rendering to learn how to optimize your map.
[addsig]



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 Re: compiling times
Posted by Leperous on Thu Dec 30th at 10:10pm 2004

? quoting Livett
Also whilst on a website I found that making the backs of brushes nodraw does improve game smoothness because it does not have to render them

True, if the brushes in the "world"- texturing faces which are completely outside your map (and touch the void) doesn't make any difference.





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 Re: compiling times
Posted by Livett on Thu Dec 30th at 10:18pm 2004

Can you give me a link to somewhere where it explains how to streamline compilation and rendering and how to optimize my map... because I looked in the documentation and found nothing.

I really need to optimize my map as it is going to be very big and is starting to lagg. I also need to place cubemaps but as my PC isnt good enough to show shadows or reflections I need someone to add cubemaps for me once it is done.





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 Re: compiling times
Posted by Livett on Thu Dec 30th at 10:39pm 2004

Ah... I found out on how to optimize and everything, sounds really complicated. What will be easier... for me to learn how to do all this stuff and optimize my map, or make my map and let a friend optimize it for me. I prefer the latter option but it may be difficult to optimize a massive map instead of optimizing as I go along.



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 Re: compiling times
Posted by omegaslayer on Thu Dec 30th at 11:14pm 2004

? quote:

- Setting VIS and RAD on 'Fast'



Only for test compiles, other wise things will run choppy. It might be that you contain a leak and that increases the time. Vis (visual) takes a long time if you have a large complex map, RAD (light) equally. Post your system specs. If you dont have at least 256mb of ram i must say that you have no right to compile. The compile process takes a lot of ram (lots of mathematical calculations). With my system (1 gig RAM) it takes me apox 10min to compile a large map (like the size of the train station).
[addsig]



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 Re: compiling times
Posted by Livett on Thu Dec 30th at 11:24pm 2004

My system specs are poor, like 1Ghz processor, 128mb RAM. It takes me a hell of a long time to compile but I wouldn't say that I 'have no right to compile'. Now I couldn't care how long it takes me to compile... it could take a week to compile my final map for all I care. I just don't want mmy map to run slow or be laggy once it is completed. So I need to learn how to optimize or get someone to optimize for me.

I have done a hell of a lot of work on my map so far but I think I am going to need to restart because I read that the map runs a hell of a lot better if everything fits into the same grid with no overlapping. I have a question but I will start a new thread for it.





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 Re: compiling times
Posted by Zeon on Fri Dec 31st at 12:03am 2004

? quoting Livett
Ah... I found out on how to optimize and everything, sounds really complicated. What will be easier... for me to learn how to do all this stuff and optimize my map, or make my map and let a friend optimize it for me. I prefer the latter option but it may be difficult to optimize a massive map instead of optimizing as I go along.

I see no reason why you shouldn't let your friend optimize it for you.....unless you plan on making more than 1 map in your lifetime. If your current map is the first and last one you'll make, then there's no need for you to learn to optimize. But I'm guessing you'll want to make more, so learning to optimize "as you go" will help everyone involved





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 Re: compiling times
Posted by Nickelplate on Fri Dec 31st at 12:09am 2004

Set any Displacements to 2, they retain thir same basic shape, but take less time to compile. Also If your just testing world geometry, then don't run RAD and VIS. I always save my lighting til last and test ti last after i am sure i ahve EVERYTHING perfect. If you wanna test a certin entity string or something make it in a really small DIFFERENT map and compile it that way then copy and paste it into your current one, and you'll know it works. That way you don't end up compile ing for days. I have the same SLOOOOW compile times and this has cured me..

[addsig]



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 Re: compiling times
Posted by omegaslayer on Fri Dec 31st at 12:09am 2004

? quote:
128mb RAM.

There is the answer right there. Sorry that i said that (its just an expression to show how RAM is crutial to compiling) its just ive done compiling on 128 before, and its hell, the difference b/t compiling with 128 and 256 is fonominal, luckily though you can upgrade that very easily, just buy perhapse another 128 or 256 for like 20 bucks off of ebay, and not only will the compile process take less time, it will improve your computers performance over all.

edit: i also suggest you check out the documentation at verc on how to optimise your map, or even do a google search for other tuts online, Just search for "half life map optimization" because HL1 mapping is some what similar to HL2 mapping (optimization speaking)
[addsig]



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 Re: compiling times
Posted by Livett on Fri Dec 31st at 12:10am 2004

Well as I put in another thread, I have read through the whole documentation and know now roughly how to do it myself. Will take a lot of trial and error at first. I will need someone to put in cubemaps for me though as my graphics card can't handle it.

Can someone please tell me how long it would take (very roughly of course), sending from 128kb upload to a 765kb download:

a) a .vmf (i think that is the name for uncompiled maps)

b) a .bsp

As I have low RAM and may see if I can just send map to my brother every now and again to compile for me. But if it is going to take like ? hour to send and recieve each time it will be better for me to slwly compile them myself.





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 Re: compiling times
Posted by omegaslayer on Fri Dec 31st at 12:15am 2004

What connection do you have? If its dial up you will prolly be better off compiling, if its DSL no problem. BTW make sure you zip what ever you are sending, its compresses it a little and prevents corruption when being sent.

[addsig]



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 Re: compiling times
Posted by Nickelplate on Fri Dec 31st at 12:17am 2004

if it's 765 DL link then he has satellite internet. As long as the sending connection is fast (do it at work amybe?) it should go splendidly. [addsig]



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 Re: compiling times
Posted by Livett on Fri Dec 31st at 1:32am 2004

? quoting Livett
sending from 128kb upload to a 765kb download

That are the connection speeds I was talking about, we both have blueyonder 756/128kb broadband internet.

My brothers computer is about 10 times the speed of mine and it is taking me hours to compile a basic, medium sized map which is rediculous.





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 Re: compiling times
Posted by alingrecea on Fri Dec 31st at 1:48am 2004

Well is me again the initial Poster of the message. Well it Takes like 3-4 minutes to render my map on fast vis and fast rad, last night i tryied to compile the whole thing on normal but i got bored after an hour and something my pc is a 2 ghz p4 400 fsb 512 mb ram and an ati 7500 64 mb of ram. so i would like to know what will be a normal compile time and optimisations that could help to shrink the final compile time on normal. i have another pc 3.2 ghz but i don't use it as much, is the family pc and im going to use it just for final compiles at night.

And about the sky box, the vis and rad compilers are going to make calculations on the outside of the playable map up till to the margins of the of the skybox?





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 Re: compiling times
Posted by carpaltunnel on Sun Jan 2nd at 8:57am 2005

I had the same problem, but I fixed it. Here's how.

Look through your map and pick out any brushes / polygons that are not the structural foundations of your level (that is, pick any ones that are not walls, floors, or barriers to the void). On almost any of these non-structural brushes, click on them and turn them into "func_detail" entities. For example, I had stairs with a railing and posts made from many small brushes. I made all of them into func_detail ents. Also did it with door frames and a lot of other ones.

My compile time went from 15+ hours to about 10 minutes (though with your specs you could still be looking at several hours, depending on map size) In fact, before I did this, the compile would take so long and then it would give me an error that said it had run out of memory. The problem went away. Note that this is WITH a skybox and an outdoor area-- I still fixed it.





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 Re: compiling times
Posted by satchmo on Sun Jan 2nd at 5:19pm 2005

? quote:
Something is seriously wrong with your map if it takes that long to compile. Make sure you have most of your brushes set as func_detail and also learn to use hint brushes.

There is a way to shorten compile time (to just compile a portion of the map instead of the whole map), but there seems to be a bigger problem with the map. Read the SDK documentation on streamlining compilation and rendering to learn how to optimize your map.


It's not an everyday occurrence when I quote my own post, but you've just repeated what I said earlier. It's crucial to use "func_detail" to optimize a map. In fact, I believe it's the single most important thing anyone can do to shorten compile time and boost performance.

Livette, I still think it's important for you to learn how to optimize your own maps. You can't be that averse to learning new things. It's part of the complete creative mapping process.
[addsig]



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 Re: compiling times
Posted by carpaltunnel on Mon Jan 3rd at 4:51am 2005

Yes, you mentioned it, satchmo, but I clarified it and gave specific instructions. I did not simply parrot what you said earlier; you left some things out. "Most of your brushes" could lead someone to make a leaky map. So there. :-P

Livett, check out some of the generic polygon- and triangle-saving tricks for editing HL1 and even Quake 2. Some of them also will work for HL2, or any other engine that uses a BSP / VIS compile system.






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