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i need help on leaf count wireframe and budget.
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 Re: i need help on leaf count wireframe and budget.
Posted by alingrecea on Mon Jan 3rd at 1:55am 2005

Hi, my prolem(s) are on how to optimize my level, because it seems that nothing is like it was in the old engine. On my map, when it starts, the engine draws the entire map, and im assuming that it draws all the shadows and textures and whatever it needs to draw. I can see that using the mat_wireframe command but in some places the fps are decent like 40 per second. what i don't understand is what efect will the hint brushes will have if the engine draws the entire level from the start? How will i know on how to optimize my level because putting hint brushes as guess, because no matter what i do the engine drwas whatever it wants they seem to have no effect. And if im in an area far away from another area of the map, the engine still draws that and they have no connection one with the other and still they get drawn. When im using the +budget pannel i can see on what is the engine spending all the power but i don't see how can i separete the rooms in such ways with hint brushes to lrize the fps. because the engine is drawing models and other stuff that arent going to be seen by the player entity.





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 Re: i need help on leaf count wireframe and budget.
Posted by parakeet on Mon Jan 3rd at 2:52am 2005

weird i dont know how it works either , im used to the old hl1 system when nothing fell unless you made it
[addsig]



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 Re: i need help on leaf count wireframe and budget.
Posted by satchmo on Mon Jan 3rd at 3:13am 2005

I am pretty sure that you're not using hint brushes correctly. Have you loaded up the example map that came with SDK? Compile the one for hint brushes and run through the demo. I found it very helpful in understanding the proper method to apply hint brushes.

Contrary to a lot of new mappers, it should not be used to just seal off an area. It's more complex than that. You need to consider the connectivity and relationship between the brushes. If any large brush connects two very distant parts of the map, then virtually everything would be rendered.
[addsig]



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 Re: i need help on leaf count wireframe and budget.
Posted by alingrecea on Mon Jan 3rd at 4:05am 2005

Well i agree with you about that sdk_hint.map but u see that is the lamest example of using a hint brush. the thing that i'm trying is wireder than that and if the engine does not calculate that, the area of the map is not visible i have no clue or imagination where to put a hint brush to specify to the engine something like this : here u moron im puting a hint brush in china and u should not draw the empire state building in manhattan" now where in between those two reference points manhattan and china should i put the brush?



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 Re: i need help on leaf count wireframe and budget.
Posted by Livett on Mon Jan 3rd at 11:45am 2005

? quoting alingrecea
im puting a hint brush in china and u should not draw the empire state building in manhattan

I know that in HL2 you can make the maps a lot bigger... but that is just going over the top.

Know i'm not sure here but if you use the command something like mat_visleaf 1 or something like that, have a scroll through the commands it should draw the square that you are in. And how it works is if you can see any part of the leaf then it draws everything in the leaf... that includes thru windows but not through brushes.

Hint brushes then divide the leafs. May I also suggest to put areaportalwindows infront of all windows you have if you are looking at a building from far away. That usually helps.





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 Re: i need help on leaf count wireframe and budget.
Posted by Leperous on Mon Jan 3rd at 11:47am 2005

Uhm, just checking, but you have compiled with VIS..?



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 Re: i need help on leaf count wireframe and budget.
Posted by alingrecea on Mon Jan 3rd at 6:36pm 2005

i will try the areaportals thing because i have not tryied that, but anyway the map is not that big it is in a smaller stage than de_dust 2 it won't be bigger than that, i think i need to ask something about an elevator that i have in there. ok the doors to that elevator are made from glass and also the elevator is made from glass so basicaly i can see lots of parts of the map when i go in that elevator could that be the problem? should i put the elevator in cube of hint brushes and should i make the area portals linked to every door? and Yes i'm compiling with VIS on Fast. and Rad on fast. And another thing the elevator is like an external elevator is ouside of the structure.



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 Re: i need help on leaf count wireframe and budget.
Posted by SaintGreg on Tue Jan 4th at 7:19am 2005

VIS on fast while it takes almost no time, does an apalling job of doing actual vis calculations. It may take 2-3 walls between you and an area to actually get the culling of that area. Try running vis on full and see if it works for you.

This is actually another problem with the old style bsp/vis system. Since there is no way to group visible sectors you have to make the bsp clusters large so that there aren't many of them to sort out the vis calculations on. However, that means that not only are you getting very inaccurate visibility calculations at any general point in the level, but also you have to make detail out of brushes tahts aren't part of the bsp. Unfortunately the triangles dont line up right when these brushes hit walls so lighting calculations aren't as good. </rant>

Glass doors cannot be blocked with areaportals as they are meant to be looked through.

Also remember that vis works on line of sight. If you can see all of your level from one point in space no amount of hint brushes will change the fact that you will see all of your level.





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