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A "Before you Test" Checklist
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 Re: A "Before you Test" Checklist
Posted by DocBadwrench on Sat Jan 22nd at 4:06pm 2005

I have to confess something: I've found way more helpful, constructive conversations at Snarkpit than I've found on the official boards. On a quick tangent: I'd love to know what ONE other internet resource you all consider must haves, that I can add to my regular visit list.

On to the question:

Like so many newly birthed Source junkies, I have a CS:S WIP-level that I want to start testing on my server very soon. I know of a few things that I'll need to do:
  • Install some of those env_cubemaps that are all the rage with the kids. Then, of course, run the cubemaps from the console in the game.
  • Place HINT brushes to help my FPS. I still have no frickin' clue how to actually do this, but I'm sure I'll figure it out.
  • Place all needed CS:S-specific entities.
I'm just thinking at this point that it'd be helpful to make a list of "must do" stuff when it comes to compile-time. For instance, I never would have known to use cubemaps had I not come across it in the forums.

Any help is appreciated.




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 Re: A "Before you Test" Checklist
Posted by ReNo on Sat Jan 22nd at 4:37pm 2005

Yeah the official forums are a bit of a mess really - threads seemed to get filled up with incorrect babble by newbies more often than getting a correct answer. Welcome to your salvation Only other site I check out for mapping really is Mapcore, but its not so much a Q&A site like this one, but more of a gallery of completed and in progress works.

Hint brushes have recieved a whole lot of publicity lately and it seems everybody wants to be in on the action, but the truth is that they aren't needed in the vast majority of levels. Having them may help your FPS, but they also may not - its highly dependant on the map in question and how you use them. Using them may even improve performance in some sections of the map while hurting performance elsewhere. In my opinion, hint brushes are not things that newcomers to mapping should concern themselves with - proper use of them really requires a good understanding of the compile tools and the way the engine handles maps.
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 Re: A "Before you Test" Checklist
Posted by DocBadwrench on Sat Jan 22nd at 4:44pm 2005

Thanks so much for the insight. I am certainly familiar with the whole phenomena of some "new" thing being used by everyone whether needed or not. Me? I only looked into it after opening cs_cbble and seeing them all over the place. That piqued my interest. Now, I will promptly put that knowledge aside for the time being.

So, any other (or fewer) "must haves" for a list?




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 Re: A "Before you Test" Checklist
Posted by ReNo on Sat Jan 22nd at 4:47pm 2005

Are you making a list of things you need to do for releasing the map to other people to test, or just for yourself? If its just for yourself to test then you don't really need to have much - lights, spawn points and a sealed level are pretty much my only requirements before I compile and see how its looking.
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 Re: A "Before you Test" Checklist
Posted by DocBadwrench on Sat Jan 22nd at 4:52pm 2005

I guess I'm good to go then. I haven't used level editors for games in about five years. They have sure gotten waaaaay easier to use; I just sort of expect there to be numerous show-stoppers once I try to make anything but a hollow cube.




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 Re: A "Before you Test" Checklist
Posted by motionblurrr on Sun Jan 23rd at 3:20am 2005

Yikes... don't discourage the use of hint brushes. Regardless of FPS in-game, they also make a world of a difference in compile times. I have a map that several hours to compile and brought it down to minutes with skillfull use of hint brushes. Given, it took me a while to realize how to use them, but I can tell you this, they are a life saver. I am going to write a tutorial on them over on www.hl2world.com one of these days to show the masses how to use them properly.



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 Re: A "Before you Test" Checklist
Posted by SaintGreg on Sun Jan 23rd at 4:18am 2005

He also said newcomers to mapping. When you are new, its best to focus on things other than hint brushes... But I have to agree, I have only rarely used / needed hint brushes. I am a bit skeptical that hint brushes did that much benefit in compile times, but I'd have to see your map to disagree




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 Re: A "Before you Test" Checklist
Posted by omegaslayer on Sun Jan 23rd at 6:04am 2005

I agree with Reno, only use hint brushes if you KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING! And in order to do that you need to know how vis works (leafs and such) in a map for one to use hint brushes to their full capacity. Google it and find a site that explains how vis works
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 Re: A "Before you Test" Checklist
Posted by motionblurrr on Sun Jan 23rd at 6:29am 2005

? quoting SaintGreg
He also said newcomers to mapping. When you are new, its best to focus on things other than hint brushes... But I have to agree, I have only rarely used / needed hint brushes. I am a bit skeptical that hint brushes did that much benefit in compile times, but I'd have to see your map to disagree

http://www.snarkpit.com/maps.php?download=1602

My hint brushes made a huge difference with compile times in the large areas. I guess you're right though... although this is my first HL2 map, and I never really finished any other maps back in the Quake/HL1 days, I have learned a ton about how VIS works. It's just something that comes with time. I think I had an epiphany several weeks ago and it all of a sudden makes sense now. I need to make that hint brush tutorial... as soon as my map is 100% done, I'll do it.

Check out my other tutorial though which could be added to your list of things to do before you test. That way, when you're testing you have a bunch of "tools" at your disposal to disect your map.

http://www.hl2world.com/wiki/index.php/Optimizing_Your_Map





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 Re: A "Before you Test" Checklist
Posted by ReNo on Sun Jan 23rd at 1:50pm 2005

I would never discourage the use of hint brushes - you should see the source of dm_echo, I've got them all over the place and it means VIS takes only 3 seconds on normal. I would discourage people who are still learning the basics though, as there is plenty to cut your teeth on in hammer without having to figure out how VIS works and how to manipulate it via hints.
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 Re: A "Before you Test" Checklist
Posted by keved on Sun Jan 23rd at 5:51pm 2005

? quoting DocBadwrench

I'm just thinking at this point that it'd be helpful to make a list of "must do" stuff when it comes to compile-time.

Make sure all the appropriate vis groups are ticked before the start the compile. Brushes & entities are only included in the compile if their group is active.

I've been away from Halflife map making for 3-4 years and totally forgot about this. I created a bunch of player clip and func_clip_vphysics, whacked them onto a visgroup, turned it off for ease of editing, a few days passed and I did a full compile & released a beta minus all my clips. What a muppet.





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 Re: A "Before you Test" Checklist
Posted by Leperous on Sun Jan 23rd at 10:53pm 2005

Put in clip brushes around doorways and other places that need them to ease player movement!

I would suggest that those things are enough for most compiles, but you should run around every compile version and note down the things that need fixing- out of alignment textures, strange lighting effects, dodgy things you see with mat_wireframe on, etc.- and fix them when you're done, so that you final version is absolutely perfect and won't have someone else run around thinking "oh he should have fixed that..."





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 Re: A "Before you Test" Checklist
Posted by DrFrag on Sun Jan 23rd at 10:53pm 2005

For CSS specific entities, pretty much all you need are the CT/T spawns inside buyzones, and brushes for your hostage rescue points or bomb sites. Since everyone buys their weapons, you don't need to worry about weapon and ammo placement (or health placement).

I came across something that sped up my compile time a lot. Part of my map contained a large car park, and there were several dozen concrete bollards. Most of these were hex-based cones (it was mapped from a real place). They were all 1 unit off the ground to avoid splitting up the ground texture. It was taking 32 hours to compile on a 3GHz PC. Then I changed them all to func_wall entities and the compile time dropped to 41 minutes on a 2.4GHz PC.

Edit: Oh yeah, adding to what Leperous wrote, I ran the map in spectator mode and zoomed out so I could see the whole thing. Then I took a screenshot and printed it. Now when I come across a problem like a gap in a wall or an incorrect texture, I mark it on the map and write a small note next to it. I never remember the details once I'm back in Hammer.






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