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 Re: func_button?
Posted by SUPERLAG on Thu Jul 26th at 3:58am 2007

Thanks! I appreciate everything except the whole, "Valve doesn't owe me anything" bit. That comment has made me even more retarded as it sank in. Considering I have bought Valve's products, had to pay for mods that used to be free, recieved near zero support from steam, had to use steam to begin with, and am required to know where documentation exists because the help files that come with it are weak, and the usual crashes, bugs, etc - I feel like they owe me quite a bit. I expect a full reimbursement by you since you seem to be their PR man. A blank check wil suffice. Thanks again.

*as I open all of your links I see that I already have every last one of them saved, so I guess I did know where (I should say HOW) to look





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 Re: func_button?
Posted by reaper47 on Thu Jul 26th at 10:01am 2007

? quote:

Valve does not owe you anything.


Sorry, Stadric, but I have to agree with SUPERLAG to a point. Valve owes the modding community Counter-Strike, Team Fortress, Day of Defeat and hundreds of thousands of other mods and maps which are the only reason HL and HL2 are still so popular.


Why snark works.



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 Re: func_button?
Posted by Stadric on Fri Jul 27th at 2:49am 2007

Sorry, I should've explained further. They owe you the game you bought, and that it will work on a system equipped to do so as it says on the game box and online. As far as I can tell, you haven't complained about HL2, HL2DM, CSS, or DODS, just the (free) SDK.

That's what you paid for, that's what you get. Asking Valve employees to work on a development kit for free is kind of greedy don't you think?

It's like expecting Linux to work all the time.

I admit that the Half-Life series' popularity is based heavily on it's modding community, but how much revenue is coming to Valve because of them?
Plenty for the mods that cost something. That's a nice kickback for Valve, but when are you going to generate revenue for them?

What most of the dev community does is generate free advertising for Valve, but online game communities always do that.

I still don't see what exactly they owe us, since even their free products work.


Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying



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 Re: func_button?
Posted by reaper47 on Fri Jul 27th at 10:31am 2007

I think you're missing my point. People spend thousands of work hours of their free time to develop games like TF, CS, DOD, Garry's Mod ect. which would have never existed without them. Valve bought them (I admit, for a fair price, as far as I know) and now are making millions with it. CS has become the multiplayer FPS game of the decade. Nothing is even comparable. I'm sure they made millions with CS alone. It wouldn't have existed without some amateurs like us fiddling around with the SDK. Without these mods no-one would play (and still buy!) HL anymore! At least not on that scale.

They might not owe me or you anything. But it's not selfish to ask for better usability as, in the end, it's totally symbiotic. Criticizing the SDK's flaws is one of the most helpful things you can do for Valve. It's not really that important whether you use swear words or not. In the end, the tools might become more attractive for the guy who's going to make the successor of CS - or a company that decides to buy the engine.

We're free testers for the SDK just like they provide us with free tools.


Why snark works.



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 Re: func_button?
Posted by SUPERLAG on Fri Jul 27th at 5:40pm 2007

I could go into products of theirs that I bought and did not get them to even work. I had the original DOD on this computer and it played fine. Then one day I change to a new Steam account (meaning I bought, yet another HL key) and then found I must now pay to have DOD again. Well, thanks to one of my buddies pestering me I bought the p.o.s. game and it would no longer run on my machine without crashing. So what did support do for me ? They gave me a dozen different instructions in a list I like to call, "Your next 3 days homework" and I proceeded to do bury myself in PC Geek activities . Three days later they finally refunded my money (but not my time and frustration - and lemme tell ya what $10 could get you in the kind of computer geek work I was involved in over this) and told me it was a one-time refund to show how nice they are. I would have just bought DOD source but why gamble and have to go through all of that horses**t again? The game played on my machine before, it's a crummy little HL mod, for Pete's sake I run BF2, CoH, WoW, CS:S, you name it on this PC.

And that's just ONE story. I am required to have Steam to even play my games so in a sense I bought that p.o.s. too and I don't even have room to even BEGIN to get started with stories of my so called, "support" with that.

I am still here enjoying Valve products and I will be paying for TFC when they release it and I will continue to obsess over mapping, gaming, servering and I will continue to be highly pissed and bitch about a lot of it even if some fanboi thinks he's earning Valve Miles when the great Valve God reads his posts defending the bastards.

Agape





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 Re: func_button?
Posted by Stadric on Fri Jul 27th at 6:06pm 2007

It didn't work, and you got a refund. You wasted 3 days, but you didn't send Valve a bill for your time.

You don't like Valve, or Steam, yet you continue to use their products. I absolutely despise the McAfee firewall and virus scan I have installed, and as a result, I'm ditching them both as soon as my year contract ends.

@Reaper
I can understand the relationship that way. Valve makes an investment in us, and then we occasionally give them something worth that investment. That's a good way of looking at it.


Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying




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