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Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Dark|Killer on Sun Oct 2nd at 5:00pm 2005

Hey all

The people out there includes me, i really want pro's to list many ways to reduce compile time, and the ways should really work...
To list the ways, please do as follows:

Ways To Reduce Compile Time:



Bad stuff that may affect compile time, and how to avoid it:



Please List as many ways as you can, lots of people really need help with this, from avoiding large brushes to the misuse of hint brushes, just list all you know, and which you tried and DID actually WORK

Thank you all

-Dark|Masta



.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Crono on Sun Oct 2nd at 7:12pm 2005

Well, let me explain something first of all. Compiling time shouldn't be a concern really, since the end product map is what needs to run fast. The more you get done in the compile stage the less that has to be done in realtime ... the faster it runs.

But, there are things that are bad for both compile time and run time: bad vis blocking. Cutting up brushes that create tons of planes that aren't used more than once. Improperly cutting leafs and portals.

That's pretty much it as far as I know. If you follow most common mapping rules and use everything properly ... you wont have problems. However, you should know that HL2 compile times are large even if you do everything in a proper manner .. it's just big.

But, as for what you're asking ... it's already been covered millions of times. I'm not sure how many times hint brushes can be explained, but they work like they do in HL1 ... as for portal view or whatever, they're used for small openings, completley surrounded.

Other then that, it's just a matter of making brushes line up, and if they don't making them entities. Or something as such ...


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Dark|Killer on Sun Oct 2nd at 7:42pm 2005

Yeah i know this part, but, compiling for more than 2 hours for a small map is really bad...thats why i really need help, and im sure there are others with the same problem...



.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Captain P on Sun Oct 2nd at 7:49pm 2005

I find HL2 compile times not that bad so far. Well, the lighting part takes it's time and that's about it. What I do now is building rough architecture only and the rest is either a func_detail, a displacement map or a model. This goes well for outdoor or cave-alike maps: vis times are really low.

Of course, other types of maps that feature more architectural detail would have larger vis times and more complex results, but using models for details a lot and func_detailing oddly angled stuff goes a long way already. I haven't even found hint brushes that usefull but for a very few situations.


Can you show us that map, or post some screenshots of characteristic area's or an overview perhaps? Maps tend to differ a lot, you know... <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_wink.gif">



Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Madedog on Sun Oct 2nd at 8:29pm 2005

? quote:
Yeah i know this part, but, compiling for more than 2 hours for a small map is really bad...thats why i really need help, and im sure there are others with the same problem...


2 hours <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/evilgrin.gif">ek: I'm astounded! What does it take? VIS? My thought so. If you need optimization... contact me... <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"> <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif"> You know normal VIS shouldn't take longer than a couple of seconds... (except for very big and very complex maps...)



HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
217.159.236.34:27050 - CSS Server - Clean | koffer.ee



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Dark|Killer on Mon Oct 3rd at 12:00pm 2005

YEAH EXACTLY, i dont know what im screwing in my map to make it compile for a long time, but maybe this maybe the problem ??
In the 3d skybox, i added a floorbrush in thw whole skybox...like this :

[skycamera]
| |
| |
|_____________________________Floorbrush____________________________|

May this cause time to compile ?? i made it func_detail and it still compiles for a long time, ill try removing it and then ill see...



.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Dark|Killer on Mon Oct 3rd at 2:04pm 2005

Oh yeah, for who asked for some screens, here they are..:
-----
1 ... ... ... Takes about 1 hour and 30 min to compile...
-----
image

image

image
Over View of the map, the big black box is the start of the map, and then you teleport to your house, i made as if you start in a dream then wake up at home and so on...
-----
2 ... ... ... Takes about more than 2 hours to compile...
-----
image

image

2 is smaller than 1, yet it compiles more than 2 hours...sucks badly

If screens didnt help i can post the vmf ??




.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Dark|Killer on Mon Oct 3rd at 6:03pm 2005

Oh my GOD !! SOmething So amazing just happened, i dont know exactly how but i recall changing some stuff like roofs and stuff to func_detail, and i added 2 hint brushes in 2 corners and 2 area portals, and guess what?? it took me 10 minutes to compile, it isnt the best time, but its much better than compiling FOR MORE THAN 2 HOURS !! Amazing, wow lol, im so happy, hehe, i was going to quit because of the compile thing, but now im back to business

-DArk|MAsta



.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Madedog on Mon Oct 3rd at 9:21pm 2005

rofl... I can optimize your map for you if you wish... both of them... it actually takes lot more than only roofs to change into func_detail and seeing you could actually use occluders someplace...



HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
217.159.236.34:27050 - CSS Server - Clean | koffer.ee



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by MeanDroneFrog on Mon Oct 3rd at 9:27pm 2005

http://www.student.kun.nl/rvanhoorn/Optimization.htm

this'll help.

btw very nice map


Frodo Greenman
www.halfwit-2.com



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Dark|Killer on Tue Oct 4th at 10:50am 2005

Its ok madedog, if you can tell me what to optimize more further, please tell me, i like to learn doing it myself <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">

And hey MeanDroneFrog thanks for the site, saved me some minutes hehe, THank you all anyway, i guess whats in that site says everything i need to reduce lag...thanks <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">

http://www.student.kun.nl/rvanhoorn/Optimization.htm

VERY RECOMMENDED ^^



.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Madedog on Tue Oct 4th at 11:31am 2005

Well I don't know WHAT to optimize more further as I haven't seen the VMF and I can't recommend... but from the pictures I can see lots of things to be converted into func_details and where to set off hint brushes <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">



HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
217.159.236.34:27050 - CSS Server - Clean | koffer.ee



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Juim on Tue Oct 4th at 11:34am 2005

I have to agree that HL2 compile times are long. My map is at about 8 hours to compile at this stage, and I'm only about 80% done with the architecture. True I have'nt begun optimizing yet, but I still manage to maintain a respectable 60 FPS in the heaviest trafficked areas. I imagine it will improve if I use optimization techniques better, although I doubt compile times will be reduced by much.



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Madedog on Tue Oct 4th at 11:35am 2005

How long does your RAD take, Juim?



HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
217.159.236.34:27050 - CSS Server - Clean | koffer.ee



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Juim on Tue Oct 4th at 3:08pm 2005

Less than half an hour, its the vis which takes 7 hours and 47 minutes.



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Madedog on Tue Oct 4th at 3:36pm 2005

damn! your maps needs some heavy optimization! I take that you have a lazy man skybox? You want me to optimize the map? <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif">



HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
217.159.236.34:27050 - CSS Server - Clean | koffer.ee



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Crono on Wed Oct 5th at 1:41am 2005

No, they're just complicated. Seriously. Searching and doing vector calculations and crap is VERY time consuming.

A good example of how long VIS can take is the Lost Coast compile times ... 42 minutes on a computer farm of what? 23 computers?

Visual matrices, leafs, portals, all that jazz are complicated and they take a long time to calculate: end of story. Of course, you can always make ways of limiting the planes, leafs, and all that stuff ... but the end product map is usually close to the same ... so what's the use of the extra effort when all you get is a longer compile time?

You guys never would have lasted when using Fortran: 8 Hours compile time ... minimum. You had to come back the next day and find out if you had errors. (Not that I've ever used Fortran or any of it's versions)

But. The point is ... compile times don't matter ... by themselves. In HL1 however, they were pretty closely linked to how well your map will run in game. That isn't true anymore.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by fishy on Wed Oct 5th at 2:31am 2005

for a second there Crono, i actually thought that you'd posted that in the wrong thread. <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">




i eat paint



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Crono on Wed Oct 5th at 3:37am 2005

One thing I've learned after four years of this field: Everything that is between math and computer science is connected to such a huge degree that they don't even seem like different fields anymore. I think the differences come out by what you use them for and not really what you know exactly.


Blame it on Microsoft, God does.



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 Re: Some Ways To Reduce Compile Time
Posted by Captain P on Wed Oct 5th at 10:27am 2005

? quote:
You guys never would have lasted when using Fortran: 8 Hours compile time ... minimum. You had to come back the next day and find out if you had errors. (Not that I've ever used Fortran or any of it's versions)


And didn't you have to do a printout of the memory when there were errors, to study it back home so another programmer could try his program that day? <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
Horrible...

Most time seems to come from either vis or rad, and vis is good to keep down when you use func_details and models for detail a lot instead of cluttering the world brushes with all sorts of tiny stuff.
rad times are kept down a little by decreasing your lightmaps quality. This saves filesize as well. Only do so for faces that have very equal lighting, or aren't really seen up-close by the player, as the edge between bright and dark area's will get very rough on those faces.

Besides that... patience?
For me, it helps greatly to build the rough outlines of my level, ingnoring details somewhat so I can check if the layout plays well. This is also often fast to compile, so it gives you a good impression of what the map will be like in the end. You can then start detailing area's seperately if you wish using cordon compiling...



Create-ivity - a game development blog




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