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Arch Brushes/Tool Screw up in Hammer
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 Re: Arch Brushes/Tool Screw up in Hammer
Posted by Agent Smith on Fri Feb 24th at 6:07am 2006

I'm using the arch tool to create a bevel effect on a concrete structure I'm making, something I have done hundreds of times. I make the arches I need then use the vertex tool to create the bevel effect. By using the arch tool I can guarantee that the segments that construct the arch are the same proportions and therefore will not cause any brush problems when vertex manipulated. After the manipulation is finished the brushes are perfect and Hammer can find no errors with the brush work. This stage is shown below.





However once I have saved the file and then reopened it the arch has gone from a thing of beauty to this ugly mess. Now I know this is what happens when you use Hammers auto fix tool to fix bad vertices, but according to Hammer there were no problems in the first place, and therefore no reason to screw up all my brush work.





Whats worse is that if I attempt to create a new arch within that file the tool is no longer capable of making a proportionally even arch. Half the time it does not even look like an arch.





If anyone knows how to fix this problem please let me know, cause I am going f**king nuts trying to work with this broken arch tool.



Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'



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 Re: Arch Brushes/Tool Screw up in Hammer
Posted by Captain P on Fri Feb 24th at 12:09pm 2006

That un-archy look is probably caused by your small brush rectangle (32 x 32, right?), but the arch malforming problem... never seen it before...

What happens if you compile the good (first) version? Does it look normal in-game?


Create-ivity - a game development blog



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 Re: Arch Brushes/Tool Screw up in Hammer
Posted by fishy on Fri Feb 24th at 1:42pm 2006

are you certain that after the manipulation, every vertex is sitting perfectly on one of the grid points? (in all of the 2d windows)


i eat paint



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 Re: Arch Brushes/Tool Screw up in Hammer
Posted by omegaslayer on Fri Feb 24th at 8:35pm 2006

Ive encountered this problem, it occurs when you want a full bevel on a curve or arch. For one reason or another hammer just re-draws the brushes (even if they are already triangles) to be set off the grid, even if there wasn't a problem when you saved and closed your vmf.
I have no solution, nor do I know of any. I too am waiting on one. I just wanted you to know your not the only one out there with this problem.



Posting And You



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 Re: Arch Brushes/Tool Screw up in Hammer
Posted by Dr Brasso on Fri Feb 24th at 10:24pm 2006

thats an awfully small bounding box man, try setting the grid to one, double the bounding box size, and spin your arch 180 degrees instead of 360....if the box is too small, it jumbles it a bit while trying to keep symitry with that many sides involved....you could reduce the number of faces as well...you can always scale it back down as you need to, and then final tweek

Doc B...





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 Re: Arch Brushes/Tool Screw up in Hammer
Posted by fishy on Fri Feb 24th at 11:22pm 2006

hmm, Dr.B is right about the bounding box being small.

take another screenie of the arch you're making, before it goes bad, but this time zoom right in with all the 2d views, and have the snap on grid set to 1.




i eat paint



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 Re: Arch Brushes/Tool Screw up in Hammer
Posted by Agent Smith on Sat Feb 25th at 12:43am 2006

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Captain P the arch comes out fine if I compile the map straight after building the arch. But as soon as I shut the map down and reopen it the brushes are all warped, in the editor and game.

When I make the arch every point is perfectly aligned on the grid. Its the same issue that Omegaslayer mentioned, it seems that Hammer has difficulty with arches when you try and create a bevel effect. The only way I found to get around it is to split the arch segment into two triangles, very much like old school terrain making. That gets rid of any vertex issues Hammer thinks it has.

As far as the arch tool going crazy after this problem it doesn't matter if the arch is 32 or 1024, it still comes out distorted. The arches I'm making are only 90 degrees and are 64*64 units, which is plenty big enough for an 8 sided arch.

Also if I try and make a 180 arch I always have to stretch it back to the right proportions, it seems to always want to stretch it to fit the bounding box of a 360 arch of the same proportions. This issue is always the case, whether this other problem is occuring or not.

The arch tool has always been a bit broken for me, but just recently its gone completely crazy.



Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'



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 Re: Arch Brushes/Tool Screw up in Hammer
Posted by Dr Brasso on Sat Feb 25th at 2:27pm 2006

not to be contrary smitty, but i took yer specs and did my own arch, and then did another one the way i said, with size doubled, sides decreased etc, and i had no problemo.....aside from the usual vertex manipulation, it came out pretty nice....so im still thinking its in the construction somewhere bud....i hope i am dead wrong... <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/heee.gif">

Doc B...:dodgy:





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 Re: Arch Brushes/Tool Screw up in Hammer
Posted by Orpheus on Sat Feb 25th at 5:08pm 2006

I am not sure what I am supposed to see but this is what I do when making arches/circles.

1st- HL hates full circles. Never figured out why so I always made mine in 90* parts then combined them into a whole. Compiles always worked in 90* chunks.

2nd, I always made my arches big.. Sometimes really big. After I got what I wanted, I activated the whole thing and shrunk it to my wanted size.

Sometimes the grids failed to match, sometimes not. If I stuck to even numbers, I could shrink it to a grid.





The best things in life, aren't things.



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 Re: Arch Brushes/Tool Screw up in Hammer
Posted by Agent Smith on Tue Feb 28th at 11:01am 2006

I find the new editor hates half circles, goodness knows why. Anyway I can fix the issue at least temporarily by cutting the arch segments into triangles. It's not as pretty, and complicates compiles somewhat, but at least it stops any vertex errors.



Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'



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 Re: Arch Brushes/Tool Screw up in Hammer
Posted by DrGlass on Tue Feb 28th at 9:31pm 2006

I just did a load of with with the arch tool today and it worked fine for me. 8 unit with for a 16 sided 360 degree arch in a 32x32 should work fine.

Go into general options and check (or uncheck) the check box that has to do with the arch tool, I think its something like re-align arch tool to fit box. Also make sure you have the "match primitive brush in 2D view" check box in your 2D options.

If that doesn't work try and make a 16 side 360 degree arch in a 128x128x128 cube.




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 Re: Arch Brushes/Tool Screw up in Hammer
Posted by Agent Smith on Fri Mar 3rd at 11:34am 2006

Thanks for the suggestions Doc, but they don't seem to work. The only time I have trouble with arch formation is after the arch I've constructed goes out of whack. The damned thing keeps "fixing" the brushes when they don't need fixing, no matter how large or small, simple or complex, the arch might be.



Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'



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 Re: Arch Brushes/Tool Screw up in Hammer
Posted by Orpheus on Fri Mar 3rd at 1:51pm 2006

I know this may be a shot in the dark but, have you done a full system scan recently to omit spyware and virus's as a potential cause for this?

Its very seldom when only one person using the same editor as everyone else has a unique issue caused by nothing at all.

You might need to run a registry cleaner too. I always run one after I have run spybot/adaware and trend. Sometimes the registry is cluttered with residual spy stuff.

Wouldn't hurt. Even if it doesn't solve this.





The best things in life, aren't things.




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