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skybox, Huge Compile time
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 Re: skybox, Huge Compile time
Posted by Harkonan on Wed Jun 28th at 11:33am 2006

Im having a fair few problems making a boat based map, not least because of the shape of the map base. at the moment im trying to create a simple skybox so i can test my level without the black hole effect. however when ever i create a skybox (box around level of no draw, paint skybox texture over on the inside), it takes years (and i mean years) to compile. any ideas on how to stop this? ive tryed sliming down the drawn surfaces with the nodraw texture. but the problem only happens when i create a skybox.

thanks in advance for any help.




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 Re: skybox, Huge Compile time
Posted by French Toast on Wed Jun 28th at 11:36am 2006

Pardon?



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 Re: skybox, Huge Compile time
Posted by Harkonan on Wed Jun 28th at 11:39am 2006

er was checking my log in. all there now.




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 Re: skybox, Huge Compile time
Posted by Gwil on Wed Jun 28th at 12:07pm 2006

Skyboxes aren't actually boxes, and afaik if you are going to make a box (purely for testing purposes or for the nature of the level) the whole thing should be textured "sky".

Perhaps a compile log and maybe a few screenshots of your 3d textured window in hammer could make this easier to understand, as at the moment I personally can't strike out and say what's exactly wrong. It's hard to visualise what you're trying to do.




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 Re: skybox, Huge Compile time
Posted by Harkonan on Wed Jun 28th at 12:16pm 2006

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

Im having a fair few problems making a boat based map, not least because of the shape of the map base. at the moment im trying to create a simple skybox so i can test my level without the black hole effect. however when ever i create a skybox (box around level of no draw, paint skybox texture over on the inside), it takes years (and i mean years) to compile. any ideas on how to stop this? ive tryed sliming down the drawn surfaces with the nodraw texture. but the problem only happens when i create a skybox




edit.
wow do i hate the auto formatting on here.




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 Re: skybox, Huge Compile time
Posted by Dark_Kilauea on Wed Jun 28th at 12:50pm 2006

ok... if you plan to have the entire map in a box, make that boat a func_detail.


Dark_Kilauea
DVS Administration
http://www.dvstudio-production.com/



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 Re: skybox, Huge Compile time
Posted by Harkonan on Wed Jun 28th at 1:05pm 2006

Ok i have looked at the Func detail. are there any warnings i should know about making an active area of the ship a func_detail?




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 Re: skybox, Huge Compile time
Posted by ReNo on Wed Jun 28th at 1:11pm 2006

Don't think thats gonna be possible given the size of the thing - looks like it has several decks and internal rooms, etc...

Is everything in this map aboard the ship, or is the ship just going to be part of the level? If the former then you're lucky - I'm in exactly the same situation and have no problem with compile time simply by keeping the skybox tight against the ship. I don't need outside of the ship beyond what the player is going to go and see since they are always on the ship, so my skybox ends at deck level. You can use a 3D skybox to fill in outside detail like your sea, or islands, or a dock, or whatever, provided the player can't go there. However, if your ship is part of a larger level (and I suspect, since you have built the exterior hull, that it is), it could require some rethinking.

The big problem comes from the curve of the lower part of the ship. As the curve bends in on itself, the space on the outside of it is going to be concave. Leafs (volumes that the space within a map is split up into to determine what is visible from where) have to be convex, and so to fill up that concave space in the skybox there are gonna be a whole lot of leafs created. Thats whats killing your compile time I'd wager - it is VIS that is taking ages as opposed to RAD right?

Do the insides of your ship share the same shape as the outside? As in, are the external walls also the internal walls? If not then you can keep the internal walls as world brushes and ensure they are kept to reasonable shapes, while making the outside curves into func_details. This would result in something like...

image

Where the green squares are your internal rooms built (mainly) out of world brushes, and the orange outline is the external hull made out of func_details. This makes the shape far easier for VIS to handle since it is ignoring all those fancy curves and only has some blocks to deal with.



Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: skybox, Huge Compile time
Posted by Harkonan on Wed Jun 28th at 1:12pm 2006

Dark_Kilauea:

Ok done that, but if any thing it seems to make things worse.

im sceptical about doing any thing to the Boat itself, the Boat compiles fine. its just when i add in a skybox that the VisBasePortals screws up.




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 Re: skybox, Huge Compile time
Posted by ReNo on Wed Jun 28th at 1:17pm 2006

*bump*

Just in case you didn't notice my reply as you made yours after <img src=" SRC="images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">



Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: skybox, Huge Compile time
Posted by Harkonan on Wed Jun 28th at 1:23pm 2006

Ok. my level is contained on the ship itself. however the top deck is open. the exterior Hull (underside) is made of no draw, and now the hull is made of Func_detal. the exterior walls are the same as the interior.

I have tryed making the skybox as small as possibulall though admitedly i was suing a hollowed box rather than making it as close to the hull as possibul.

if im right what your sugessting is to create a hollowed cylinder of skyboxto get as close the the hull as possibul?




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 Re: skybox, Huge Compile time
Posted by ReNo on Wed Jun 28th at 2:20pm 2006

My main point really is whether you even NEED the hull. If the player can only ever be inside the ship or on the top deck, they will never see the underside of the ship, so why bother making it? Build the inside of your ship all sealed and whatnot, and build a skybox that seals the top deck up. Don't encase the awkward shaped underside of the ship in the skybox and it will make it vastly more simple for VIS to deal with. If you have portholes or other views then build them their own sky brushes to seal them in.



Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net



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 Re: skybox, Huge Compile time
Posted by Harkonan on Wed Jun 28th at 2:36pm 2006

Ahh i see what your getting at. unfortunatly the majority of the under deck is pretty open plan. the ships hull is build there because the other side is one giant room (this may be devided up later). i tryed turning the skyboxc into a skycylinder, and this has reduced the portal time down dramaticaly but its still a ludicrus time. i think i need to do some more research into the Portal and what to do to reduce it.
cheers





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