KoRnFlakes said:
np, btw I was playing cod2 earlier & there are some basically square haystacks on one of the maps, but all theyve done is attached a masked texture to the sides & it looks fine.

I'll look at that technique. Thanks.

KoRnFlakes said:
I tried the map out in-game earlier, I found some of the sheep bled & some of them were made of stone, which was humerous.

I must have miseed one then. They should all be of type 'flesh'.

KoRnFlakes said:
I felt the textures in game were a bit repetative in places. The walls/roofs - but maybe once I see it in game with the newer lighting scheme I would change my mind.

THey are repetitive, but I can't see adding 20MB to the file in order to change it.

KoRnFlakes said:
I noticed it was being made an AS map a little while ago, which is a nice idea. havent seen one of those for a while.

Yes, they asked me to make an AS version of the map. I"ve dropped a build to the mod team.

KoRnFlakes said:
Be sure to update this thread when the next playable version is out.

Will do. Thank you for your help.

The last screenshot of the indoors area looks really nice, but considering the perspective of the screenshot, it looks like the room is way over-scaled. The doors also look much too thick.

np, btw I was playing cod2 earlier & there are some basically
square haystacks on one of the maps, but all theyve done is attached a
masked texture to the sides & it looks fine.

I tried the map out in-game earlier, I found some of the sheep bled
& some of them were made of stone, which was humerous. I felt the
textures in game were a bit repetative in places. The walls/roofs - but
maybe once I see it in game with the newer lighting scheme I would
change my mind.

I noticed it was being made an AS map a little while ago, which is a nice idea. havent seen one of those for a while.

Be sure to update this thread when the next playable version is out.

Korn:

1) hay

Every time I try to see if I can get away with something, it seems that I can't.

The bales, which you can't tell from the screenshot, are two cubes, the interior cube a solid texture, and the outer one a transparent one. They get across the right look in-game. But they are not shaped right.

I can easily make make them less regularly shaped. So I'll do it.

2) ceiling

Yes, I think you're right. OK. Lemme think on it a bit.

3) waterfall

I think it's as good as can be for this map. I tried a number of more sculpted waterfalls but all they do is slow the map down. I thought of doing a nice demo waterfall with a half dozen different textures and rocks. I should probably do it and just giveit out, because everyone would copy it.

I may switch to a single-player map next time so that I can really make use of the engine. The fact that I want CSS plus maps with wide open spaces, is what makes me have to make so many compromises. Furthermore, I use geometry where textures would be just as adequate a solution, but I find the texture work tedious so that's another compromise.

Thank you so much for your feedback.

Those hay stacks are very square. I worry somewhat about your attempt
to keep it at "100fps" rather than keeping a poly count or whatnot, I
think you're being too restritive with yourself, just something I felt
looking at those hay stacks.

Also, the ceiling texture. It looks like an earth texture or something,
looks like old moldy plasterboard. I cant actually think of how the
ceiling might be, I will look for some images of a scottish cottage I
stayed in once, though I dont think I have any of the ceiling for
obvious reasons.

I know the screenshots have changed, but I cant remember what the
origionals were like in terms of light. What you have up now looks
perfect, it looks very cold & baron, for all I know though, it
could be the same as before.

I think i'l hold judgement on the waterfall until I play it in-game.

Mazemaster:

I just want to thank you for the quality of your feedback before I respond to it. Thank you very much. It's great. I don't know if it will come across in this posting, but I wrote down half a dozen ideas while reading your post. Thanks again.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Wow damn this map has a lot of potential. </DIV></DIV>
Thanks. I gave it a lot of thought.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-Tweak the texturing of the mountains. </DIV></DIV>
It needs more than tweaking. <g> I've spent timeon it today. Getting there. "Make it work, make it good, make it fast".

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-It looks like you have used only a few gigantic horizontal displacements for the whole map. Instead, break it down into many displacements that mesh with each other. </DIV></DIV>

No, the map is a series of 1024 unit cubes and the top of each one is a displacement. Below that is another cube that is textured with nodraw to limit vis. I did this just for the same reasons you stated. I just haven't gone thru and made ajustements because it "is hard to go back" when you start structurally modifying the map like that.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-The lighting looks a bit... bright?</DIV></DIV>
That was good feedback by someone earlier, and I"ve reduced it quite a bit. Looks great now. I might drop it to 200. But It's at 300 now and it looks really great.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-The whiteish texture snow? is not that good.</DIV></DIV>
Yeah, it's terrible. I"ve bought a lot of textures, modified them, and even made my own and I still can't get it right. Same for the ice on the stream. I just am not a good texture person when it comes to translucent and reflective surfaces.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-Make sure that there is enough cover.</DIV></DIV>
I designed it so that the The house-to-house is very fast, with lots of cover, but that it's contrasted with open areas at both ends of the map. So, you're right but I think I have done the right thing so far.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-Work on the inside areas. </DIV></DIV>
Well, I have placed a little furniture, but I don't want to overdo it. This is essentially a mining village that's been abandoned exept for terrorists. The people didn't have much stuff to begin with. I don't think I should add much. Perhaps some rusted metal equipment laying around will help.

There is always the potential for someone to camp a map like this. I can't get the gameplay I"m looking for (which this map has) and avoid camping spots. Its actually much harder to camp than you'd think, but it can still be done.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-The brick texturing gets pretty repetative. </DIV></DIV>

I did this on purpose based upon the reference photos. It is part of what I'm looking for, so I don't want to change it. I have a slighly more stained and darker set. and I might add a lighter set, but I think that the map would be better served by models than by different textures. I need more detail, and I'd prefer if that detail didn't come from textures.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-Rooftop warfare is an awesome idea. Make a lot of the roofs accessible./quote]
Yes. They are all accessible. Even the bots use them.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>-Make visual paths of dirt on the ground in places people would walk on a lot.</DIV></DIV>

Yes, this on my list on the web site.

I am trying to keep the map at 100FPS, and so everything I add, means there is something else I need to remove or change. I spent yesterday just on finding and buying sound files, creating the soundscapse, and testing sounds.

It's really getting there.

Thank you very much for your time and your ideas.

-LN

</DIV></DIV>

Wow damn this map has a lot of potential. If you just put in the effort making all the little tweaks, improving peices bit by bit, optimizing performance, and doing a lot of playtesting I could see this becoming one of the great custom CS maps.

I like how the terrain is pretty minimalist, except for the mountains - it looks good and it draws you to the fight areas and the buildings. A lot of maps go overboard with crazy terrain features everywhere that is completely unrealistic.

Thing is, its not quite there yet.
-Tweak the texturing of the mountains. Maybe a bit more rocky, and the snow should have a bit more texture to it. Increase their power to add more details to them.

-It looks like you have used only a few gigantic horizontal displacements for the whole map. Instead, break it down into many displacements that mesh with each other. Bump up the power where you need it (where there are large variations in height), and keep the power low where its mostly flat. Don't be afraid to have displacements that cut into each other or displacements whose plane at an angle - there is no performance hit for it.

-The lighting looks a bit... bright? There are barely any shadows. Maybe this is the effect you are going for, but I would consider trying angling the sun a bit more and turning down the ambient light a bit. Nothing extreme, but maybe give it a try.

-The whiteish texture (is it snow? I cant quite tell) is not that good. Definitely improve that texture.

-Make sure that there is enough cover. A lot of the spaces are really really open.

-Work on the inside areas. Its better to have a couple really well-done indoor areas, and block the other ones off than it is to have a ton of indoor areas that are not very good. Its also better from a gameplay perspective since too many indoor areas can really slow the game down.

-The brick texturing gets pretty repetative. That might be OK, but I'd have to actually run around the map to tell for sure. Consider adding some variation, or getting a set of brick texture variations that mesh (some that have missing bricks, or water damage, or whatever). A lot of people will probably tell you to add all sorts of crazy geometry and architecture to the building walls, but I'd say leave them flat, and mess with the textures.

-Rooftop warfare is an awesome idea. Make a lot of the roofs accessible.

-Make visual paths of dirt on the ground in places people would walk on a lot. Use the paint alpha option for displacements to do this. So for example in the buildings area the parts near the buildings would be standard greenish dirt, but inbetween there would be a brown-ish path.

To compile the entire map with full viz and rad is something like an hour.

There are only like 140 vis areas.

I have to completely disagree about the helicopter thing tbh, ever
since the formation of the sas and such, most tactical squads would
take a more quiet & energetic ruote up the mountainside.

Anyway, gl with the map, update the screenshots when possible. My CoD2 arrived this morning :biggrin:

KoRnFlakes said:
Does this map have sound?

Yes, there are quite a few sounds, and I"m thankful that you can make your own soundscapes now. Which I did.

KoRnFlakes said:
Do the sheep animate/make sound?

I am trying to find a sheep sound file. I have also planned an easter egg for the sheep, that I wn't disclose here. They are not animated as that's just way too expensive for CSS.

KoRnFlakes said:
What is that helicopter doing there on your site images?

The CT's start by the helicopters and they're being dropped off. All CSS players will understand this.

KoRnFlakes said:
What do these people do for a living?

They grow poppies, they raise sheep, they have an orchard and they had a mine, and they get support for terrorism from a neighboring country <g>.

But all that aside, I could place more props and make the map better. I think I would favor natural effects instead of man made objects, but you're right that it needs more 'stuff'.