dm_surrender

dm_surrender

Re: dm_surrender Posted by omegaslayer on Tue May 10th 2005 at 7:11pm
omegaslayer
2481 posts
Posted 2005-05-10 7:11pm
2481 posts 595 snarkmarks Registered: Jan 16th 2004 Occupation: Sr. DevOPS Engineer Location: Seattle, WA
Just from the screen shots it looks too dark for a deathmatch map, maybe add in some flares like in dm_resistance to light it up!
Re: dm_surrender Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Tue May 10th 2005 at 9:21pm
Posted 2005-05-10 9:21pm
3012 posts 529 snarkmarks Registered: Feb 15th 2005
I just downloaded it and gave it a runthrough. It is very very dark. I don't like running around with my flashlight on. It's a shame it's so dark because you obviously put effort into decaling the walls and making the ceilings and walls interesting. Unfortunately 90% your effort goes to waste because I can't see the majority of your level. The only place that I thought was well lit enough was the little corner with the shotgun and the smoke.

Your next problem is connectivity. The map doesn't present you with enough choices for routes. For example, if you're running down towards the swamp area there's no other way out. Once you get down there either route you take (the sewer pipe or the long thin tunnel) just loops you back into that very room. And the only way out is back up into the area with the containers and standing spot light. The rest of the map follows a similar circuitousness, although it's not quite as bad as the cul de sac you've got going on in the lower part of your level. The only really good part about your layout is the section where you can drop from the upper level down into the aforementioned cul de sac. It offers the only variety in terms of layout.

Here are some suggestions to improve the layout, just off the top of my head:
1. Connect the dark combine room with all the pipes to the room with the shotgun and the cold effects coming out of the grate. By doing this you will eliminated two dead ends and at least give people the option of approaching the central area from a different angle.

2. Incorporate more Z-axis mobility like the area where you drop down into the water. There are plenty of areas where you have two rooms on top of one another. Why not add a maintainance ladder connecting the two rooms? For example... connect the swamp room with the room above it.

3. Perhaps you could put a teleporter in that flooded room and have it take you back to the combine room with all the pipes. Make it a 1 way teleport.

The performance of the map is fine, it runs great on my computer, because it's such a small map. That being said, you can definitely add some more props_physics, as this map doesn't really have many things you can toss around.

The env_glows you've got going on are waaay to bright. When I look down some of your upper hallways I feel like a deer standing on a foggy highway with giant trucks bearing down on me. The glow you've got going on with the standing spotlight in the room with the containers is just ridiculous! It's like I'm staring at God. Tone those down and the effect will look much better. That being said your spotlight effects look great.

I appreciate the fact that you included an env_soundscape. I liked it, definitely helped create atmosphere in the level.

I have other comments on improving the way particular parts look. I have a bunch of screenshots taken to illustrate my points. If you startup a forum thread I'd be happy to give you feedback, kind of like I did here: http://www.snarkpit.net/forums.php?forum=2&topic=4641&chap=2&findpost=newest#newposts

Anyway, good start. The only problems I saw are easily remedied by adding more lights and improving the connectivity. Hopefully you will take my suggestions into consideration and make some big changes for your next beta. I think this map has the potential to be a tight and fun map for 4-8 people.
Re: dm_surrender Posted by Push6 on Wed May 11th 2005 at 1:43am
Push6
32 posts
Posted 2005-05-11 1:43am
Push6
member
32 posts 33 snarkmarks Registered: Mar 6th 2005 Occupation: Student - Loughborough Location: England
Thank you so much 'Addicted to Morphine', those are exactly the kind of comments im looking for. So very helpfull. i'll be sure to take all your points into consideration for sure and sort it out. thank you. Il shall add some more lights, and try and sort the connectivity out. Like you guys said, it is pretty bad :). thanks again for comments, your helping me so much.
Re: dm_surrender Posted by Push6 on Wed May 11th 2005 at 2:05am
Push6
32 posts
Posted 2005-05-11 2:05am
Push6
member
32 posts 33 snarkmarks Registered: Mar 6th 2005 Occupation: Student - Loughborough Location: England
My first map release. Comments and critique are very much welcome.

thanks esp to 'addicted to morphine' for giving me a detailed break
down of some problems. Like you said, heres a thread for you to rip me
a new one ;P
Re: dm_surrender Posted by French Toast on Wed May 11th 2005 at 3:13am
French Toast
3043 posts
Posted 2005-05-11 3:13am
3043 posts 304 snarkmarks Registered: Jan 16th 2005 Occupation: Kicking Ass Location: Canada
Just from looking at the shots, it looks nice. I don't play DM,
but a lot of people say hallways are bad. Also, if I were playing
I might want some more cover, but that's a personal thing from playing
too much CS.

Lookin nice though. I would download it, but my Hard Drive
crapped out, so there's still like 5 days until Steam's done with
updating my stuff.
Re: dm_surrender Posted by DrGlass on Wed May 11th 2005 at 3:18am
DrGlass
1825 posts
Posted 2005-05-11 3:18am
DrGlass
member
1825 posts 632 snarkmarks Registered: Dec 12th 2004 Occupation: 2D/3D digital artist Location: USA
screen 1: nice prop work with the pips, pretty good lighting.
Could use a small sharp light to get some shadow contrast in
there. Also, turn off shadows on thoes fences.

screen 2: curves look nice, bland lighting and boring floor/ceiling and repeating hallway dont.

screen 3: That dust looks like snow, try and make them smaller and put the alpha around 150.

screen 4: I dont like the light beams, tone them down a bit. The
lighting is kinda blan, try and make those ceiling lights a dark yellow.

screen 5: too narow and empty

looks like a great start, get the lighting and detail from room one and spread it over the map and it will be great.
Re: dm_surrender Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Wed May 11th 2005 at 3:44am
Posted 2005-05-11 3:44am
3012 posts 529 snarkmarks Registered: Feb 15th 2005
It's too bad my comment was erased with the creation of this thread,
but hopefully you remember what I pointed out. In case you
don't... here it is again... except with pictures!

Like I said before your two main problems were not enough lighting and
not enough connectivity. I already suggested ways to improve the
connectivity, but here are some shots of areas that need lighting:

User posted image
This
is kind of ridiculous. All I can make out is a wooden box. You
need some sort of lighting here. Just in case you can't tell
where this is, I'm facing a corner where if you walk up to it and turn
right you're looking down this straight hall:


User posted image

The glows on those lights are really way too big and bright. Tone it down a bit, it's very distracting.

User posted image

I liked this room for some reason. Although it was kind of weird
to have a combine console in the same room as the Resistance type
computer set up. I liked that this is where you get the
ar2. Like I said in the comments thread I think it would work out
will if you connected the back of this room to another area of the map.

User posted image

This is looking back down the hall. You need some lights on the
ceiling because I can't see much. All the work you're doing to
make the ceiling look interesting is going to waste if it's so dark.

User posted image

I feel like I'm looking at the face of God. That thing is so blindingly bright. Tone it down to a third of that.

User posted image

I like your usage of the spot light effect. The direction of the
beams does seem a little strange. Shouldn't they be pointing to
different places on the same x axis? Also, I didn't understand
why you had those platforms holding up barrels and boxes on the
wall. I appreciate your attempt to make the wall interesting,
but... that just didn't make much sense as a storage place.
Perhaps you could make a recess in the wall with rolled up shutters
that contain the boxes and explosive barrels. That at least would
make more sense.

User posted image

I prop jumped up here in a couple seconds, and I realized this would be
a pretty good camping spot considering how dark it is in this room and
the fact that a crossbow spawns a little bit below me. Some more
lights would discourage this type of deviousness (and the frustration
that it would cause for the victims :biggrin: )

User posted image

I don't know if others can see what I'm talking about but I really
liked the temperature effect coming out of this grille. I wish
you had used this in more places around the map. It's just a
snazzy use of the Source engine. Your map is small enough and
runs smooth enough that you can afford to put some more of these nice
aesthetic details in.

User posted image

Once again, you need more lighting, and you need to cut down the glow
effect. This room should be connected to another area to
eliminate the dead end. I noticed the swamp room was directly
below this. Perhaps a ventilation shaft with a ladder connecting
these to areas? This room would also benefit from more
prop_physics and some loose trash. It's too clean and empty right
now. Try adding some geometry to the walls. Trims, recessed
lighting... or just something else to spice this room up.

User posted image

Daaaark. Aside from the ceiling and the spotlight this area kind
of boring. You can fix this with more interesting textures or
some subtle geometry changes.

User posted image

Thankfully this area was well lit (the only one that I thought was
bright enough). The smoke coming out of the pipes was way too
thick so when it disappeared it looked strange. Try making the
clouds less dense.

User posted image

I could not figure out how to get that healthkit or battery.

User posted imageUser posted image

These two decals looked awkward. Perhaps you could make a thin
cylindrical brush poking out of the wall so it doesn't look so flat.

User posted image

This area has some potential. Apart from it being too dark there
are a couple things wrong with it. First off, I liked the
idea of a dirty sewer type area, but... what's with the grass? I
don't see any sunlight. Also -- the ventilation duct looks out of
place. I'm not sure what you would replace it with... perhaps
that ladder I mentioned in the shotgun room.

User posted image

I liked the idea of having weapons/ammo/health that you can only reach
with the gravity gun, but I wish they were a bit closer. In a
combat situation I wouldn't want to have to wait around while I slowly
pull the crossbow down the loooong tube.

User posted imageUser posted image

I like the vertical nature of this area. Again I wish it were
brighter. Maybe some spot lights shining down from that upper
area? Or a brighter shaft of light coming down from that grate?

User posted image

I thought this corridor was too dark and too thin. Any battles
here would be pretty boring because the hallway is so long and there's
no cover.

User posted image

That just looks bad. Move the props or the geometry.

User posted image

The natural light seems way too dark. Brighten it up, because
while the dust motes are a nice touch they don't seem believable in
such weak lighting. The room itself is also way too dark.
If a brighter light environment doesn't fix it, then add some more
light fixtures. The glow coming from the combine consoles isn't
enough.

Anyway -- work on the lighting and connectivity and this map will look and play much better.

Keep it up, looking forward to the next beta.
Re: dm_surrender Posted by Push6 on Wed May 11th 2005 at 9:56am
Push6
32 posts
Posted 2005-05-11 9:56am
Push6
member
32 posts 33 snarkmarks Registered: Mar 6th 2005 Occupation: Student - Loughborough Location: England
Thanks ever so much for all the comments, I'll get to works sorting out the things you mentioned.
Re: dm_surrender Posted by Push6 on Wed May 11th 2005 at 10:47pm
Push6
32 posts
Posted 2005-05-11 10:47pm
Push6
member
32 posts 33 snarkmarks Registered: Mar 6th 2005 Occupation: Student - Loughborough Location: England
Ok, beta 2 is now available, and much improved. check it out!

Download here
Re: dm_surrender Posted by Addicted to Morphine on Wed May 11th 2005 at 11:42pm
Posted 2005-05-11 11:42pm
3012 posts 529 snarkmarks Registered: Feb 15th 2005
I can't seem to get the download to work, but I'll try again later.
Re: dm_surrender Posted by DrGlass on Wed May 11th 2005 at 11:55pm
DrGlass
1825 posts
Posted 2005-05-11 11:55pm
DrGlass
member
1825 posts 632 snarkmarks Registered: Dec 12th 2004 Occupation: 2D/3D digital artist Location: USA
I'll wait to post my review till you get beta 2 up.
Re: dm_surrender Posted by Push6 on Thu May 12th 2005 at 1:39am
Push6
32 posts
Posted 2005-05-12 1:39am
Push6
member
32 posts 33 snarkmarks Registered: Mar 6th 2005 Occupation: Student - Loughborough Location: England
Curses. I'll try and sort it out in the morning :/
Re: dm_surrender Posted by Push6 on Thu May 12th 2005 at 2:17pm
Push6
32 posts
Posted 2005-05-12 2:17pm
Push6
member
32 posts 33 snarkmarks Registered: Mar 6th 2005 Occupation: Student - Loughborough Location: England
Ok, download link now sorted, get beta 2 here .