What is legal/illeagal with copying

http://www.snarkpit.net/forums.php?forum=1&topic=6480&9

I noticed that the reason the "DVD back-up" thread was locked because
it was implied that copy theatrical movies for privatly backing up was
illeagal. It is actually legal to break the encryption and back
up yourprivate copies of movie. Many people seem to missinturpret
that, though. It was settled with the dispute companies had over the invention of the VCR.

Copyright law states that you can leagally copy an owned copy of
another persons work for the purpose of making back-up's, as long as
you own the origanal copy. (example: you don't want dvd to get
scratched up from age, so you copy it and place the origanal in safe
storage.)

It is illeagal once you start to share or give the copy to friends or
extended family . In many cases, the sharing of recorded tv shows
with nearby friends is often ignored.

What was being discussed in the locked forum was not vague about
copying, the title clearly stated it was intended for the purposes of
"back-up". Orpheus was not discussing anything illeagal, by law.
(The entertainment companies, however, really hate the "back-up"
exception in the law because they want you to by more instead of
replacing one back up with another. That's why they go through
the trouble of licensing copy protection software.)

Hope that clears some things up.

[edit]

I don't want to point the blame finger, but Gwil was in the
wrong. However, Gwil is a moderator so he has the right to close
whatever thread he deams unacceptable. He and the other
moderators don't want this forum closed. However, I just hope
this forum doesn't end up like others were moderators censor everything, without fully think it through.

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You know, I've actually got nothing to say

I deny everything.

There have been similar threads in the past. I know it was discussing
backup, but knowing how both Crono and Orpheus spend their money, the
likelihood of it being about backing up legitimate personal copies is
slim to none.

I'm just following the line we have always had in the past - IMO, it
was too close to advocating and advising on piracy. If you wish to
discuss those things, you should do it outside of the General forum -
email, messenger, for instance.

Things rarely get closed on here - this thread served to make a useful
example of "don't talk about piracy", a rarity in that the subject will
always attract moderator attention, and a good opportunity to highlight it to newer members.

For some reason, this last post made me think about the terms of use
page, and I noticed that there is not a relitivly quik way, if any, to
get to it. I have noticed that most other forums have a link
right next to their forum link for the terms of use. I guese this
shows how much the people here at the Snarkpit are trusted, but then
again, there are well over 3000 registrations.

But I wasn't trying to sound mean when I said gwil was in the
wrong. I just like to clear up situations whn the time is
right. This is one statement that has led many to question "how
much is too far?" It'd be nice, though, to maybe have a page
that said what
topics we could and couldn't talk about, for the sake of the "pit".

You really have to think about what kind of world we live in
today. One in which everybody fears everyone is willing to steal
their work to a point where it brings a downfall upon themselves.
But then again, without restrictions, would the downfall have already
happened?

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You know, I've actually got nothing to say

Since there is no legal reason to have an MP3 I will insist that all talk abouut Ipods and the acquisition of MP3's be locked henceforth.

At least backing up a DVD is still a DVD. Changing a song format TO MP3 is wrong.

I, back up DVD's.

Their source is of nobodies concern.

/story

It is a sad state of affairs when the MPAA has convinced the general population that the only reason to rip a dvd is to pirate it.

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http://maze5.net

At least backing up a DVD is still a DVD. Changing a song format TO MP3 is wrong.

Why is it wrong to change the format of a song?

It is a sad state of affairs when the MPAA has convinced the
general population that the only reason to rip a dvd is to pirate
it.

Who rips their entire DVD collection for "backup" purposes? Come on, honestly.

I just took a dislike to the implications and direction of
circumventing anti-copying devices on the discs, and subsequent naming
of films - both were mentioned in the thread.

As for mp3? Nobody has thusfar mentioned mp3 downloading or directed
people on how to get hold of mp3s (not to my knowledge at least, and
not in a direct fashion anyhow) - and I find it highly likely that the
large proportion of people on here who discuss music will legitimately
buy their CD's (as I do).

Also, mp3s aren't a questionable source because, we cannot prove one
way or another that the use didn't buy them off the internet. I know
this is also the case for the film piracy issue i've hinted at here -
you could own them legally - but I'd wager good money that you don't.

Also, text such as this:

Flight plan wasn't the isse.. It was no issue at all.
It was the new zorro.

Problem solved.

Does nothing to help in my decision to lock a thread - and whatever, I stand by my decision to close it.

[edit - going by the IMDB reviews, knowledge of peoples circumstances
and general taste in film, I find it also a stretch of the imagination
that anyone would actually buy Flightplan, let alone "back it up"]

[edit 2 -

Anyway, try copying Flight Plan, then say dvd shrink can compress anything

] Prosecution rests, your honour.

I'm curious. Say you buy loads of DVD's, make some legal copies for backup. You then sell the original DVD's. Are you copies now illegal?

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-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-

I think so yeah, as technically no money is going back to the studio for the second sale.

Not sure - because second hand video shops obviously make their money too, but they have originals only. shrugs

At least backing up a DVD is still a DVD. Changing a song format TO MP3 is wrong.

I disagree. There's nothing wrong with it. When I rip CD's,
I use the software that came with my mp3 player because it changes the
format to mp3. It doesn't make any sense to have less songs when
my legal software will do it from my legally bought CD.

All copyright law says is if you own the origanal, you can make a private copy. Mp3's, cd's, dvd's, whatever.

Which makes me ask ya'll, do you think if an Earth and Beyond emulator
was built, would you count it as illegal even though no one is making
or losing profits. EA has struck forth be refusing to supply the
network encryption on the game, but have yet to0 stand up and stop the
current emulator being built. Are they willing to let people
raise a dead mmo with out consiquences?

Now here's the link to their forum, but take note. They've not
succesfully emulated it yet, there's not even a playable single
character version yet. So that does not technically make a LOCK
or delete. Have a look around.

www.enbemulator.com

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You know, I've actually got nothing to say

Please just leave it.

I'm done, for now at least.

Got an EVE trial with my name all over. See ya in 14 days.

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You know, I've actually got nothing to say

For now at least? You're done full stop.

Don't try and make a contest of what should/shouldn't be locked, i'm
not changing my stance nor will I baited into locking threads because
of links posted in them.

I will let this alone, BUT I have s**tloads to say. If any thread is ever locked again, while simultaneously slapping me across the mouth without my having any hopes of defending myself I will throw a s**tfit from hell.

If that is not clear enough, I will gladly make it crystal clear.

Topic about backing up my collection, is dropped.

Continue discussion, at your own risk!

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The best things in life, aren't things.

:rolleyes:

Who rips their entire DVD collection for "backup" purposes? Come on, honestly.

Me. And not just for backup. In my dorm room I don't have a TV, so I play all my movies off my computer. It is much nicer to have all my dvds on my hard drive than to search around for the disk, and then sit through the forced previews, not be able to skip to a time as easily, etc.

Disk space is cheap, hard drive seek time is fast, transporting an external HD is easier than transporting a crapload of DVD's, and the searching and organizing capabilities of a computer are unparalleled. I'm surprised that everyone doesn't rip their DVD's to disk.

Your argument also fails to realize the most basic point - in order to rip a DVD to disk in a way that requires decryption, first you need to actually have the origional (legal) DVD.

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http://maze5.net

Whatever - I made several arguments, including knowing the situations
of both the people and the movies in question being utter turd. Also I
used the quote about copying.

I knew some points I was making assumptions (and I believe they are
correct, and the right ones to make in the interests of anti-piracy
action) so I made sure I can still justify locking the thread against
nitpicking of my argument.

Legalese!

Whatever happens, the thread is locked. TBH this wouldn't have even
been discussed had this thread not been made - I know the 2
participants hadn't said anything. It's only getting life from people
trying to stir up "what is piracy/what needs to be locked" debate. I
deemed it should be locked, it was locked.

See that how you like but I stand by my decision.

I would like to make one small point. Wal-Mart sells fairly new DVD's 2 for $11.00.

At that price, its worth collecting originals (which I do)

That said, I get so tired of family borrowing my disks and hurting them. Now, its not in my nature to say "NO" to them, so to avoid any hurt feelings I make copies for borrowing purposes.

I am rich enough to afford 11 bucks. I am not rich enough to buy them many times.

I am still a bit miffed for the insult in the previous thread, especially when I was named personally, and Crono was the one who accidentally got the thread locked. (nothing personal Crono)

I backup ALL my disks and some are a bitch. It would not bode well to insinuate otherwise.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

I'm a pirate. Are you?

I'm buying his book.

"For now at least" == I'll forget about this thread in a couple of months a probably make a similar post.

Also, I wasn't insisting on a debate over whether gwil should reopen
the thread. I just wanted to see see if simple copyright education
would spike an intersting thread.

Come to think of it "I've Created A MONSTER!!!" . . .

or perhaps just an interesting little debacle. You be the judge.

ha, video pirates? what about the rising space pirate problem, anybody gonna gripe about them?

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You know, I've actually got nothing to say

This conversation hasn't really stepped out of bounds at all Gwil, you should relax a little. :razz:

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-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-

Disclaimer: For the newer folks here abouts I would like to clarify my views and position as in reference to this happy site known collectively as "The Snarkpit"

I support the owner and administrative staff 100% in all aspects were the set rules and guidelines are concerned. I may not agree with some/many/a few of them, but I do respect them. I may try, with time, to alter them to be more broad in scope, but I will not actively show disdain for them. I may oppose any owner or admin in a subject, but not where it clashes with a rule. The sanctity of this site is paramount. Since I was a part of its current state, it would look odd to publicly disdain what I helped to enact.

Since this topic has finally cooled off a bit, I think now would be a good time to have my say:

TwoKnives said:
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<div class="quotetext">At least backing up a DVD is still a DVD. Changing a song format TO MP3 is wrong.

Why is it wrong to change the format of a song?</div></div>

Well Master Dave, since you and I have been friends since LONG before there was even a Snarkpit, I can only assume that your post was rhetorically based. You are perfectly aware of my thoughts on copy rights.

Lets assume for the sake of argument that making a backup of any DVD is wrong. Since there is nearly the exact same law applied to music, specifically songs, then by that thinking, making a copy/backup of a song is wrong as well. Anyone who sees any distinction between DVDs and MP3's is only fooling themselves. If one's thinking is:

a) Making a song into an MP3 is OK because you are only listening to it through your player for your own personal pleasure. How is that any different than viewing a movie using your own player?
b) Making an MP3 is more accepted because, MP3 players were specifically designed to PLAY THEM! Well I hate to say this, any DVD player will play any backup, assuming you use the proper blanks so, that still doesn't hold up.
c) That more people use MP3's than backed up DVDs? I doubt it but how does that make it more/less right/wrong?
d) That some songs are specifically SOLD in MP3 format. I can see this as a viable excuse but only in so far as you actually bought it pre converted into the format. If for any reason you actually converted a music CD into MP3, you are doing the exact same thing as anyone making a backup of ANY COPY RIGHTED MATERIAL!

Anyway, thats how I see it. So, if this thread truly is to define what IS ALLOWED to be posted here, and what IS NOT, then if we accept DVD backup as not allowed, then by association we are saying that anything in reference to making MP3's from music disks as same.

/ my point.

</div>

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The best things in life, aren't things.