White lines in source engine

I have a Nvidia 9800gt video card, a good while ago I started geting these white lines in source engine games such as counter strike source, team fortress 2 and half life 2. Specifically white lines when I look at for example stairs, I am the same hight as one of the steps so on that step, since the step is exatly the same height i know that wen i look at the step behind it there is a texture, thats where the white lines appear, this probably makes no sence so here are some screenshots http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596941143010705795/9164558ED6213D06FBEA5251FCBF152D37C33A6C/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596942125469648707/C5215B8A33F419A1333088CAF9728D1AE5B6D3BD/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596941143010703277/05F8BF60CBE93E9876055D1967C7835C5826A90F/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596941143010704643/2CA029F9EFCE5E7866D159D207D045ACB84FEC6D/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596941143010705196/C416565984854BE49F707B08D72B8F570F99D718/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596941143010706349/A262B3E8D1D26960FB92C5C75D5D2E2D41C174B2/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596941143010704028/6103EDBBB29BA789D3D5E34552F6381B244FD565/
doesnt look like a big problem but its very noticable on my res. i have tried redownloading, reinstalling windows (7), trying other drivers which has helped slightly,and one thing that helped alot was turning AA on full, makes the line thinner, but i dont want to play with AA on full because my video card is not fit for that. The white lines flicker and move when changing the distance and viewing angle. Where its very noticable is in half life 2 when you are in the water, you float and the your eyes are exactly in line with the top of the water which makes a big white line all around you. Any help would be much appreciated, Any questions, please ask

I don't see any issue in the screenshots.

Can you take some more that show off the issue clearly?

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Does noone see the problem?

All I see is the normal map reflection on the stairs ... which is suppose to be there, that's how the game looks.

If you can take shots that show a more dramatic example I'd be able to help more.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

he is talking about the white pixels, which look like lines if you look around in the game. I've never seen this before though

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Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/Nibgames

Crono said:
All I see is the normal map reflection on the stairs ... which is suppose to be there, that's how the game looks.

If you can take shots that show a more dramatic example I'd be able to help more.

Il take some more pictures, of for example half life 2, I own this game on steam but it is not currently downloaded, I cannot download it because I have almost reached my download limit, but i will download it at the begining of September

Niborius said:
he is talking about the white pixels, which look like lines if you look around in the game. I've never seen this before though

Oh! I see it now! The white pixels up on the wall. I honestly thought there was some crap on my monitor or something >_>

OK, generally speaking stuff like that is either areas of the map not meeting properly (doesn't happen for anyone else on that map, though) OR something more likely since it's just you experiencing this in more than one game, you're getting artifacts.

Artifacts happen when various components are at too high of a temperature for proper operation. The memory or processor (usually on the video card) components are not able to keep the integrity of the voltage value in check, as a result, incorrect values are sent out and rendered resulting in funky stuff.

There is a pattern though, depending on what area overheats. Pixels being wrong colors is video memory.

I'd suggest checking video card temps, cleaning out your computer and the card's heat sync thoroughly. Airflow in the case is, also, very important for proper GPU performance, it's something a lot of people overlook.

If it's an nvidia card, get something like EVGA precision, it'll allow you to also check fan speed.

It turns out a lot of GPUs are sent out with their fan speed at about 30%. They're SUPPOSE to dynamically clock up at a hardware level ... but usually don't. They will respond to software control though.

It'd be helpful if you list what kind of card you have. I'll be able to check to see if it has any pitfalls (like memory that isn't cooled at all) and maybe some suggestions to help you out.

But try the other stuff in the meantime.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Thanks very much for the answer first of all, I am not sure but if its a overheating problem then wouldn't it become more noticable after more use? as in i start playing, I cant see the problem, 10 mins later it becomes visible? It stays the same the whole time. I have a 9800 gt with 512mb of memory, anything else thats important in a video card? What do u meen by cleaning my computer, u meen like making sure theres no dust? I keep the case always open for better air circulation, and with this program can i change the fan speed to over 30%? and again thanks for the reply

Yes, remove dust from the components. It clogs up the heat syncs and causes them to reduce air flow and retain more heat.

Having the case open ... actually reduces air flow and raises temperatures on most cases. You want a wind tunnel going on.

Who made the 9800? Most of them do cool the memory, but it's blowing the air back into the case (unless you got one of the external exhaust models)

Overheating doesn't work that way. The card is working hard even before you actually see something rendered on screen. It reaches temperature in milliseconds, not minutes. The heat isn't like when you run an engine or something, it's from the density of components and the amount of energy being pumped through them. The energy conversion isn't perfect, as a result heat is a byproduct and let off. This happens when they are used ... every time ... there's no time delay or anything like that.

The program I discussed allows you to do more than that. You can create a profile to dynamically clock the card based on temperature. The 9000 series is the one I've experienced this the most with, too.

A friend's 9600 card was having heat problems, I borrowed it, used the precision software and found it was running at 30% speed, stock. You'll want to crank it to 100% while playing stuff. The card I had, which runs cooler than the 9800, was idling around 60ºC at 30%. At 100% it was idling around 45ºC and at peak load was reaching 58ºC so .. yeah it makes a difference.

To note, GPU temperatures are the GPU, not the memory modules. You can assume the memory modules are the same temperature, or even higher.

It's a very complex system, the video card ... so there's a lot of funky things that can happen.

The 9XXX series GeForce have stock fan issues with default speed, I really suggest you check it out ASAP and definitely get in there with some compressed air and clean all the dust out.

If the card is out of warranty ... or they support you doing this ... I'd STRONGLY recommend taking the heat-sync off cleaning off the existing thermal paste and applying new better thermal paste.

Thermal Paste (compound) used on parts is generally shit. It's about the bare minimum heat capacitance. A lot of times they work better as insulators than heat conductors.

That's really something everyone should consider, that'll yield even lower temperatures.

If you do all this and you still have the artifact ... start checking other games to see if you can see something similar, if you can ... then there's a chance the card is permanently damaged (though if that happens it's usually much more prominent) if not, it still could be something else ... but it seems unlikely.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I will be sure to clean it and close the case. Its made by asustek, and the full model name is ASUSTEK - ECE1900296 - EN9800GT/DI/512MD3/A VGA GF9800GT PCIE 512MB 256bit DS 1XDVI, dont know if that makes any sence to you.

What is the thermal paste?

I cleaned the video card, not sure if it helped, and got a different programme that allows you to change the fan speed, called rivatuner, set the fan speed to 100% started playing and still the same problem don't know if thats the problem, at the start of september i will download more drivers and try them out

Thermal Paste, Thermal Compound, Thermal Grease ... are all pretty interchangeable names for the same thing.

It's the soft substance you put between a chip and it's heat sync to make thermal contact between the two.

Depending on how quality the thermal compound is it can act as a very good heat conductor or a thermal insulator (very poor heat conductor). Of course, the idea is to allow as much thermal conductivity as possible to let the fan cool the heat sync down rapidly so it can absorb more heat from the chip it's cooling, as a result keeping the chip at a much cooler operating temperature.

The only difference between using a fan and liquid cooling, to note, is liquid absorbs more heat per volume unit than air. This is one of the reasons the planet Earth, for example, is kept at a pretty reasonable temperature on all sides all the time. In the sun, the bodies of water absorb the bulk of the sun's heat, and in the absence of the sun (at night) they release it. /sciencetalk

Yes, the make of the GPU helps. It looks like the GPU memory is cooled ... so I'm not sure. My friend's 7800 had a similar issue and his memory was cooled as well (it's toast now)

It could be component failure, that's always an option, or driver issues, or a quirk in the game.

The best way to really determine if it's the video card or not ... see if you can get a friend to help you out and bring over their GPU that's capable of running these games in your system and see if the artifacts still exist, if they do: it's not the video card.

It's just about the quickest way to find out ... all the advice I gave before is still good advice and things you should do anyway. You should really clean out your rig at least once a month. Dust and dirt builds up fast.

If you have places you can put case fans, but don't ... you should consider it. You want to have a strong wind flow going, though.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I want to uninstall my drivers. I have Ccleaner. Would that do? or does anyone have any suggestions on a better program?

Use nvidia's tool. It's embedded with their driver installer. Just download the newest one for your card and go through the process, when it asks, say "completely remove previous driver"

Removing the driver entirely and going from there isn't a very good idea, you can get stuck with no video or just software.

Generally speaking, driver cleaners aren't recommended, (same for registry cleaners), it's not because they don't remove the files, its because they remove ALL the files. It doesn't have accurate profile data per driver manufacturer and iteration, so there's no way for it to go, "oh, this file, but not this one" it just eliminates anything related to it, which is dangerous.

Just use nvidia's installer to remove it, it'll do its job. But it doesn't sound like a driver issue. Driver issues don't really result in graphical artifacts but everything else working fine ... that sounds like card damage.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/tabramski/screenshot/595822077633781580 scroll through and note that u can still see the while line(watch in full res, its a button on the right) and heres another 1 from tf2 http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/595822077633328243/486BA3965C8B6917CAF36290F0182E4F9AAE325C/

I have installed the latest driver, doesn't help, and i'm not sure its safe to use the thermal paste, as you probably know by know i'm not exactly the computer expert

Yeah, that looks like graphical artifacts due to hardware. I can't really help you ... I mean ... I already explained all the steps for handling it, if you don't want or can't do them ...

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I'm not trying to say thats not the problem but when I turned the fan to 100% it didn't help.just something else i noticed was that when I turn off AA i get white dots everywhere on the floor, and another thing which i'm not sure weather is supposed to happen or not but when i zoom in with the sniper in darker areas i get a quick blink before i zoom in. Also is this thermal paste expensive? and is it likely find online tutorials with the EXACT same hardware?

Applying thermal paste is the same regardless of hardware. Remove heat sync (there are screws) clean off old paste using 100% alcohol or something as such, dry it off, apply new paste (can look at videos on how to apply paste properly, it's not so hard). The paste it self depends on how much it goes for in your area. Artic Silver 5 goes for about $8 a tube here and one tube lasts for about 3-4 chips.

However, you still haven't said what the GPU temperature is registering at.

In any case, it doesn't sound like it matters much. By the sound of it you're having video memory corruption and it sounds like it's already damaged the chips. I had the same thing happen to me, and it's not fun. It'll just get progressively worse until the card ultimately fails.

It doesn't sound like GPU errors. If it were GPU errors you'd get things like stretched polygons everywhere ... no everything you're experiencing is related to something stored in video memory.

If you have a warranty on the card, use it. If you don't you can look for alternative heatsyncs that may cool all the parts better ... or you can just look for a replacement ... but it sounds like the card is already damaged, which can't be fixed without replacing components.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

is the heat sync the fan part without the golden-coloured metal circle? So is this Artic Silver a good enough quality? and what do you meen by 3-4 chips? how many chips do i need to do? Sorry the programme doesn't show the temperature, and i'm not really bothered since its not that important, i just wana fix it. Don't have a warranty anymore, its out of date. And another question is there a high risk of perhaps a drop of paste getting somewhere which will cause major damage? or any obvios risks like that? And again thanks very much for your help

I haven't been keeping up with this thread but the heat sink is the gizmo above the processor that the cooling system is attached to. Be it a fan or a liquid cooler. Its usually aluminum or copper and has a zillion fins that attract gobs of dust.

If this wasn't your question please feel free to disregard my post.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

You only need to use it on one chip in your case, the GPU (But I don't think it'll help, because this sounds like a memory problem) the tube of paste can be used multiple times, is what I was saying (not single use, you can use it about 4 times)

Frankly, if you're this confused about this process, honestly, just skip it. You're going to ask a million questions that I can't really answer in text, and then you'll just ask more.

If you want to give it a shot, look up videos on how to do it and give it a try. If you don't want to chance it or can't look at videos due to bandwidth concerns, then just forget it. Put up with the damaged card until you can get a new one.

In either case, I don't think you'll be able to fix the issue you're having, it really sounds like the video memory (separate small chips from the GPU) is permanently damaged; you'll likely start seeing artifacts all the time pretty soon, not just while playing games.

Orpheus, the fins catching a lot of dust is only a side-feature. :3 (It's actually so they can put in more copper while still having airflow on a maximum surface area, keeping it cooler than a giant copper block ever would)

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

For me its a fan, like this http://www.overclock3d.net/gfx/articles/2008/09/24231230600l.jpg . Do I take apart the thing thats right underneath the fan the one thats kind of orange and is a big spiral? I have attempted doing it before but it seemed to be stuck to the card without screws, so i don't know. Or do I just take of the top part which is the fan individually?

The screws are usually on the back and it will be a little "stuck" if you've never taken it off before. That's the thermal paste holding it on, just gently pull without bending the board in any way until it comes off.

By the way, if your card is designed like that ... there's no cooling happening for the video memory. You might want to look into a new cooler (may not actually be damaged ... I thought you had a heat-sync that covered everything like most 9800GTs)

Like this: http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling/431054-review-coolink-gfxchilla.html

Oh. Also ... I want to make something very VERY clear: ONCE YOU REMOVE THE HEAT SYNC AND BREAK THE PREVIOUS THERMAL CONNECTION YOU HAVE TO CLEAN THE CHIPS AND APPLY NEW THERMAL PASTE. Do NOT just put the heat sync back on and use the card, you will effectively eliminate all cooling capacity the card just had.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Personally, I have yet to see anyone take a heat sink off of a video card without breaking the card. I am sure it can be done, I just haven't seen it. Cards are to thin and fragile.

Good luck with this.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

So once I take the metal spiral off i put the the thermal paste on the chip to which i will gain access once i take the spiral off? How much are these fans? I would prefer trying the thermal paste first and if that doesn't help then buying the heat sync. Perhaps considering a new card would be a good idea?

Orpheus, I've done it multiple times without breaking the card (never have broken a card) it's only difficult if you don't properly remove everything.

tornados, it really sounds like you just don't have the proper concept of what you're going to do. I wouldn't suggest doing it, or even starting without looking at some videos first of other people doing it.

I've already said this about four times, so I guess I have to explain it better:

It looks like your video card is having MEMORY problems. If your card is designed like the one you just showed (cylindrical heat sync only on the GPU), then it's likely that the video memory isn't cooled, at all, and has overheated many times.

On a graphics card, you have a micro-system. Like the CPU and RAM in your computer, there is another system on your graphics card, the GPU and Video Memory (not RAM, since it's not actually random access) The GPU (graphics processing unit) is the core of the card's chipset (the chipset in this case being Nvidia Geforce 9800, GT is designation of the card) Outside of that are little black chips, this is video memory, this is where everything on the card gets stored while not being processed or that is being ready to be dumped out to the screen (front and back buffers).

Memory is a electrical component just like anything else, it has a timing speed and uses many of the same components in a condensed area. It doesn't have to do nearly as much work as a processor, but it does also get hot. As a result, if video memory is not cooled properly it will cause errors and small components inside the memory chips can be permanently damaged.

If video memory is damaged, you get a specific kind of artifact, usually dealing with stored data and not operational errors. If something happens to the entire screen, for example, it's unlikely that it's video memory. However, if a specific point or texture almost always is artifacting then there's a good chance a specific memory module is damaged.

That is what I'm thinking has happened to your card. There are aftermarket coolers that will fit the chipset on your card to cool the GPU AND memory. Where as, by the example card you showed, on your card it looks like only the GPU is being directly cooled.

That means that, yes replacing thermal paste is actually a good idea (because artic silver is FAR better than any thermal paste anyone uses) it doesn't sound like it'll actually fix the issue, because the GPU itself doesn't sound like it's overheating.

If the card had an all encompassing heat sync that cooled memory and GPU, turning up the fan speed alone would have worked.

All in all, if you want to keep using the card, you need to change the heat sync if the memory isn't being cooled ... it's just a fundamental flaw. As long as that memory isn't cooled it'll keep getting damaged the more you use it. And in the long run, yes, you should buy a new card.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Thanks very much for that reply, it explained alot.

I have decided on a new graphics card. I have a lot of questions :P and would be cool if you could answer as many as you can and thanks in advance.

First of all the question is ATI or NVIDIA? I have read that the main difference is that NVIDIA has PhysX and ATI has better AA and AF. I don't play any PhysX games and i would prefer better AA and AF so I obviosly pick ATI. If u have an argument against that please reply with it. Next is which card specifically i need. I have a 1680x1050 res and I play games like CSS, and TF2 and probably soon CS GO( Although I don't think graphics wise there is a huge difference). I find it a bit stupid buying a card about the same power as the 9800gt as i might as well upgrade it. I have a dual 2.7 dual processor and i have read that games like css and tf2 mainly take processing instead of graphics, and i notice that my fps drops when I enter an area full of other people which I assume means it takes more processing power. I will probably play a few other games with better graphics however its not really a main priority, main priority is being able to play tf2 and css at max graphics with good fps(if not always 60+). As I said I will probably have to upgrade my processor too.

I know my 9800gt is PCI-E x 16 so i assume the graphics card i will buy will need to be the same. If you have any suggestions for anything I've said or for specific video card or just arguments please reply. Price does matter, Although I am willing to pay a bit more for performance. I don' really know how much the video cards cost these days so can't really give a price range, again thanks for any help

I'm 99% sure this is Adam's card of choice
He has trouble seeing past this one sometimes.

My personal opinion, ATI and nVidia are neck and neck so the only determining factor for me is more ram = better choice.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

The AA and AF argument honestly sounds like non-issue. What anti-aliasing technique is used depends on the game, most use MSAA, which is a very old technique and EVERYONE does it perfectly fine. Old nVidia cards didn't support 6x MSAA ... but that's it. (They supported 4 and 8, though).

All the newer cards support CSAA, MSAA, and many other techniques that games don't use. With all of these ... they all achieve a similar result: aliasing artifacts become nearly impossible to see.

Pretty much either camp is going to have similar performance in most cases. Where you start to see a divergence is when you scale resolution. For single card solutions, AMD has a small upper hand in this area, due to memory size. However, the lead is small. The AMD cards still don't perform well beyond 1080P or so, after that, they're about neck in neck. However, nvidia has a huge advantage when it comes to multi-card solution. It could be because of software utilization, but benchmarks show that SLI systems vastly outperform crossfire and dual-GPU AMD cards (and even dual GPU Nvidia cards) and it actually is cheaper.

You can choose whatever you like, but honestly, don't use nonsense to make the decision. You should make the decision based on real factors, not high-end technicalities.

So ... before any suggestions are made (and Orpheus does have the card I'd suggest ... or rather the chipset ... I didn't see if it was the right model ... in terms of bang for your buck, it's about the best card you could snag) you need to detail what's in the system.

Because graphics manufacturers started making system chipsets ... you have to take that into consideration. So, if you could list what you have ... CPU, RAM, motherboard (it's very important that it's specific, because if the chipset is different than the one you list, I can't give an accurate suggestion and you may very well get something that will not work to its maximum ability as a result)

More VRAM = Better is a misnomer, games only utilize so much ... and most waste it. You only see benefits if there's some driver level stuff going on and it manages it better, but in most cases, you're not going to see any noticeable difference between a GTX 560 1GB card in your system over a GTX 560 2GB card. And games are definitely NOT filling up all that video memory (they're likely in the 500MB-800MB land)

Even in your system, more system memory isn't always going to help, because it really depends on the OS' utilization. Windows, for example, is very poor at utilizing system memory. (It pages everything even if system memory is 80% empty, as a result shit is slow for no reason once the computer has been on for awhile)

Generally speaking ... you're suppose to fill memory to the brim and only then will you utilize virtual memory, because virtual memory is slow and on the HDD. Windows doesn't do this. As a result, you get things that just haven't been used in awhile being offloaded to the HDD where ... it doesn't even need to go because system memory is never above 60% or so full. It's a very inefficient implementation and it's responsible for the majority of "lock ups" you experience when using it.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Well sounds like the SLI is better, I have windows 7 and here is my system specs https://www.elara.ie/members/viewpwishlist.aspx?wishid=3729 apart from the 2TB HDD. So what your saying is windows is bad at playing games in general? Is there anything I can do to fix that? Or is it just for cards with higher memory?

Windows is bad at everything, in general

There's not much choice, really, developers refuse to support other platforms due to job and timeline stipulations. Also, on something like Linux, you can't DRM it up. (Since you'd effectively be locking a user out of their own system's inner workings, and that is unacceptable)

There's not a lot you can do, no. You could utilize, in addition to Windows for games, other operating systems and become vocal about it to developers when you can. If people just gave it a proper shot they'd have a better idea of what a disadvantage the closed environment of Windows is.

SLI is just a better bang for your dollar. Also, I don't know of an AMD chipset card manufacturer that offers lifetime warranties on their cards, however, EVGA (who only makes nvidia chipset cards) does on most of their graphics cards.

So, yeah ... you can get any card you like, that board has an Intel chipset, nothing is going to conflict with it. The card I'd suggest is the EVGA GTX 560 Ti that has a lifetime warranty and 1GB of video memory.

I'd suggest doing other upgrades if you can. Like system memory, DDR2 1200 4GB sticks aren't so much now, and getting four (you currently have DDR2 800, you should max out the board speed) wouldn't be so much. However, if you have a 32-bit version of Windows (or any OS) it will not recognize or use more than 3GB for windows and 4GB for the rest of the OS world. It has to be 64-bit.

You can also upgrade the CPU, but frankly, Core 2 Quad processors for LGA775 cost an arm and a leg ... if you can get a deal on one, (I wouldn't go for more than 180 euro land ... if my conversion is correct) ... currently it's almost 400 euro! that's insane! You could build a new computer using a Phenom II X4 get a new board, and RAM for that price! (But, Jesus Christ that Core 2 Quad has 12MB of cache!)

So you've got some options, the board isn't bad, in fact if you maxed out the ram and got a nice GPU and maxed out the CPU, it'd still play games very well for several years. The GTX 560 I mentioned is going to be able to play everything available maxed.

The only game I'm not sure about is Battlefield 3 ... just because it's requirements are up there. But, Rage, Skyrim, of course anything source related isn't even an issue.

The only real issue I see is ... if you wanted to SLI ... you'd have to build a new system. That board doesn't feature it at all (or crossfire for that matter) there's only one PCI-E slot. Which ... may mean you might want to get something better than what I'm suggesting, the only issue is then you're breaking the $250 USD (and equivalent) barrier and not just by like $50, by like $100. It's usually not worth it for what amounts to 10fps difference.

It's not a bad setup, with a minor upgrade you'd be set for at least another couple years. Max out the ram with DDR2 1200 4GB sticks (four of them, should be around 120 euro, if it'd be higher: it's too expensive), see if you can get a good deal on a Core 2 Quad LGA 775 socket (200 Euro max), and a new GPU and this would be a pretty rocking rig.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

So if I buy GTX 560 Ti and I want a SLI does that mean buying another one and conecting it to the first 560Ti?

Well I was planning on upgrading more parts of my pc anyway since im upgrading my graphics card. On the name of my motherboard it says DDR2, does that mean that it doesn't support any higher? So will i need to upgrade my motherboard aswell? I do have a 32-bit system, to be honest don't really know the difference but would it be recomemned for gaming performance to get a 64?

Whats the cache mean? and is 12 MB good?

And another question, what is the Core 2 Quad LGA 775 socket? Is it a processor with 8 cores? or how does it work? im thinking 4x2=8? what does the LGA mean? Another thing I'm a bit worried about is the power supply, will everything get enough power? the video card, the processor? or perhaps it has something to do with the amount of watts flowing through the mother board that will restrict power to these components, Thanks

You relly don't need Sli unless your gaming @ very high res,ie. 2560x1600
Then your talking thousand dollar monitors to run that resolution.
A single GTX 560 Ti will be just fine for any game, or go with a 570.

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Light is faster than sound:That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Your riches in life are family and friends, everything else is just a distraction.

I've been wondering this same thing of late. Many cards are 1 and 2 gig of ram now days. I cannot see any game in the foreseeable future (the life of your current PC) exceeding that limit. Other than bragging rights of money spent, what use would two cards be for the average Joe?

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Crono, do you have a facebook or steam through which we can chat? I feel like this is being delayed to much and just chatting of maybe 15 mins can answer all of my questions.

My steam info is on every single one of my posts ... it's the HL2 logo, and I'm part of the SnarkPit steam group.

Ok, first thing is first ... SLI isn't necessary. I was just talking about longevity if you wanted to it in the future. It isn't really going to help, like sgtfly said, until you get into very high resolutions.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean a multi-card solution wouldn't be helpful ... generally speaking.

The 570 really doesn't perform THAT much better for the $150 USD or whatever extra price tag.

Also ... it's a quad core (4) not Octacore, or whatever. I don't know where you got 8?

You really shouldn't bother with obsessing over getting "the best", which kind of seems like what you want ... you can't get the best, the best isn't consumer level, so don't worry about it. Get what you NEED to play the games you want to play the way you want to play them. That's it. Feel free to hit me up sometimes on steam or whatever. If I don't answer it means I'm not there.

I would like to note, I'd LOVE to have a LFD monitor running at those max resolutions ... so gorgeous. You'd be all like, "pfft, HD is so low res".

Orpheus, the cards aren't as simple as you're thinking. Like I said before, performance doesn't scale arbitrarily based on memory size (note: video memory is not necessarily random access, the time latency becomes too high)

The idea is, the more memory you have the larger textures or more textures you can store in the memory. In games, a texture can be used to describe anything. They're basically a big 2D array, or matrix. So, you can store color data, or normal data, or even geometry modification and location data. So, technically speaking, yeah if you had a boatload of video memory you should be able to scale everything up automatically to higher or highest resolutions possible.

HOWEVER, there's a bit of a demon lurking in this issue. Most games PREEMPTIVELY limit this from happening. Meaning, they don't even check or OFFER higher resolution versions of things.

There's a reason why dynamic shadows in a lot of games even on PC look gross and aliased, they're using a process called shadow maps, which uses a texture based shadow model, and the texture just ... isn't very high resolution. The issue being ... they have no higher option. Even in valve games, they do this. And your card can't explicitly run anti-aliasing just on the shadow map. (Or no one has implemented something like that)

It should really bother you that this happens. You look at a gorgeous game and suddenly there are aliasing artifacts everywhere that have nothing to do with geometry, but other aspects of the scene being rendered, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

The only thing you can really hope for ... is for developers to FINALLY get out of their console only mindset and develop something that will properly utilize PC (Rage and Battlefield 3 might be the first games in a while that do this) For a long time developers have been treating PC just as a really powerful console, but not really changing the way they make their games ... this is why, frankly, any mid-level card will run everything on the market for a long time. No one is pushing any barriers.

Seriously, like the last game to push any technology barriers was Crysis 1, and that game came out FOUR years ago. Four years!

So, yes, the extra memory can be used, but currently it's not going to be ... on a single card solution.

There is a exception to this though, and that's when a game supports other features, like 3D (actual 3D), physics, and dual card support. This allows you to, in games that support it, pump out a MASSIVE resolution on a game and still run it at 60fps.

And if you haven't played something like Crysis 1 entirely maxed at an enormous resolution running at 60fps, you really haven't seen where graphics capabilities were and should be far beyond. (It's glorious!)

It also allows you to, currently, do other neat stuff like triple monitors. All this requires a good percentage more of memory to store the needed data.

So it's not USELESS ... but some cards that have it ... really aren't going to use it based on what the GPU can utilize realistically ... at least when playing games. (This doesn't consider other applications like CGI work or real-time graphics programming)

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Coolness. It'll be a while before I'm ready to upgrade but I'll check with you before then on whats new at that time.
Thanx Adam

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The best things in life, aren't things.

When I click the link, it says ERROR
(i got 8 from 2 quad, it says 2 quad)
and im not trying to get the best, just want to make sure i'm getting the best cost/performance

Oh, it's just the way Intel named the last generation of processors. They were called the Core 2. Then Duo for dual core and quad for quad core.

I can see how that can be confusing.

You can reach me on steam through adamnaser@comcast.net, I'm also on the snarkpit list.

Also, no problem, I'm all for bang for your buck. It's the reason I suggest the parts I do as opposed to others that may bench-test better, but are massively more expensive.

At the end of the day, you're not crunching RSA codes or calculating Pi, you're playing games and the bar for entry isn't very high.

Cool note, I just found out that the AMD 990FX and 990X chipsets now fully support nvidia SLI. Which is awesome. The limitations of board selection are pretty much gone if you want an AMD + Nvidia system. Coupling this with the chips AMD is launching a little later this year ... it might soon be an EXCELLENT time to rebuild a system. (The upcoming AMD chips are 8 physical core processors, one of which recently set the work record for overclocking at 8.4 Ghz. And, the cheapest octocore CPU they're shipping is in $210 USD land ... which is in the same price range as Intel i5s ... making them a killer option)

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

To make it simple, just check benchmarks on current games running todays hardware.

Basicaly anything running over 60 FPS on them is very acceptable. That will give you a good idea of what you might consider getting. Human eye and brain sees smoothly @ above 30 FPS, it might be lower, but anyway if it doesn't stutter your good.
I should mention you do need to think about all components not just GPU or CPU. The PSU needs to have enuff to power it all too. And memory is important one the most in IMHO.
Really for gaming a 2500k or 2600k will last a long time and fairly cheap too.

Actually right now I'm building a new comp:

i7 975 extreme
Asus Sabertooth MB
12 gig mem
120 ssd 1 1tb hdd
Vid card will probably be a gtx 580 or radeon 6970 not sure yet
At least a 1000w psu

This is definitely overkill for gaming but I do alot of photoshop and 3d work, and wanted hyperthreading.

I haven't forgot my M1A2 tank but I don't have an exporter for Modo so I'm waiting on my sil to export it for me.

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Light is faster than sound:That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

Your riches in life are family and friends, everything else is just a distraction.

Is your username cronozilla?

Is your username cronozilla?(sorry for double post)

The 560s are actually in the same wattage range as the latter 9 cards. They're only ~230-300W peak. But in any case, that comes later after choosing a card and any other components you might want to upgrade.

(But if you were getting a 125W CPU, a 560, and 16GB of DDR3 memory with three or so 7200 RPM HDDs, and optic drive ... this is till going to draw a little under 800W or so, projected.)

Also ... strictly speaking ... power supplies actually operate stably well outside of their power rating. A lot of higher power rated power supplies are most of the same components with small variances. Not that you should plan on using it this way, but it is how they work.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.