spawns in a DM map

How many spawn points should be in a HL2 DM map?

about 5 or 6 more than the number of players you think your map can realistically handle. While designing your map and doing weapon placement you should have a good idea of how many can play before it gets chaotic and no longer fun, and you should allow for servers to not pay attention and run your map with too many players. So if you have a map that plays well with 8-14 players put 20 player starts

I disagree. I think 20 spawn points would be very excessive
unless you have a map the size of Eden (HL1). The maps I've done
are small-medium size and I put about 10-14 spawns in them. You
don't want so few that you get 20 telefrags when the map loads up, but
you don't want so many that people can't get used to where they are
spawning.

This is important because when you spawn, you need to think about where
you are, where the nearest weapon is, and where you are in relation to
the last place you died, though not always in that order.

Also, having 20 spawns on a small map would be pretty redundant, there's only so many places you can spawn.

So I would say that if you think your map is a good sized map for 8-14
people, I would put in 10-14 spawns. Do what you feel is right,
but I wouldn't go below 10.

Standard player amount for HL2DM is 14 - If you look at Lockdown there's 9 info_player_deathmatches and one info_player_start - 14 people won't all be spawning at the same time so you don't need spawns for each player.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Mouse</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I disagree. I think 20 spawn points would be very excessive unless you have a map the size of Eden (HL1).

</DIV></DIV>

i have detected no correlation between "to many spawn points" and "telefrags"

in fact, it has always been the opposite in my experience. the HL engine will utilize the spawn points from the point of origin, meaning as you placed them, it will queue you into the map from there in succession till it either runs out of spawn points and begins again, or you have no other members joining.

that is not to say i am sure that 5 people will use all 20 spawn points, but telefrags will not result because there are 15 extra spots.
i agree with yak 100%.. more=better.

I also agree. You can't enforce that your map only ever has up to 14 players, so the more starts the better (though placing them next to each other to make up numbers probably isn't wise)

Mouse said:
I disagree. I think 20 spawn points would be very excessive unless you have a map the size of Eden (HL1).

i have detected no correlation between "to many spawn points" and "telefrags"

in fact, it has always been the opposite in my experience. the
HL engine will utilize the spawn points from the point of origin,
meaning as you placed them, it will queue you into the map from there
in succession till it either runs out of spawn points and begins again,
or you have no other members joining.

that is not to say i am sure that 5 people will use all 20
spawn points, but telefrags will not result because there are 15 extra
spots.

i agree with yak 100%.. more=better.

Yeah no kidding, I said "You
don't want so few that you get 20 telefrags". The key word in
that sentance is "FEW". Meaning, if there were not that many
spawn points there would be a lot of death due to people spawning in
the same place.

It was part of my arguement that you don't need that many, but you also
should not place very few and a person should try to get a balance
between the two taking all these things into account.

mouse, if you disagreed then come back and agree why bother commenting at all? if i read (or rather re-read) you post together, you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

there is no such thing as to many, and the players not learning where they spawn? who gives a rats ass? its not even part of the equation.

pick a side, you agree with yak or you do not.

There is no sides.. stop inciting flames :razz: "them/us" mentality gets
people wound up very quickly even if it's not intended like that..

Plus this question (technically) has no right, or wrong answer. It's
relevant to map size/player load, which is always context sensitive by
default.

stop flinging the word "flames" around as if every time a disagreement occurs it must end in one. :rolleyes:

if it ends in flames, it was destined to, but accusing someone of "causing' them only makes YOU look bad.

chose your words a bit wiser master gwil. :cool:

I never said that. i just pointed out that using the them/us approach

pick a side, you agree with yak or you do not.

Which is nothing to do with forums, lots of research proves it's the
easiest way to stir up passion for or against something in people.. :smile:

that's all i'm saying - choose your words wisely too, because what may
be good in your eyes is confrontational in others :smile: (ie they think
you're being "irate" about it, so become irate themselves).

if you see..

either way it ain't that important! but yeah, question closed cos there's no right/wrong answer :smile:

mouse, if you disagreed then come back and agree why bother
commenting at all? if i read (or rather re-read) you post together, you
are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

there is no such thing as to many, and the players not learning
where they spawn? who gives a rats ass? its not even part of the
equation.

pick a side, you agree with yak or you do not.

What are you talking about? Read my post more carefully this time
and you will see that I'm talking about balancing the amount of spawns
as it adheres to the map, rather than having an excessive amount or
inadequate amount of spawn points. This is the third time I've
said this in as many posts, either you have the comprehensive abilities
that enable you to read and understand or you don't.

A person knowing the spawn point is part of the equation. Maybe
not in Counterstrike, but in DM the way one dominates is to know where you are
at all times. When you spawn in a 1vs1, you need to know where
you are in a map, it's easier to remember this when you have 10 spawn
points as opposed to 20. This is something I learned when playing
Quake competively, whole games could be decided on whether or not a
person knew how to grab the most efficient weapons and powerups from where
they spawned.

Again, if you think I am taking sides as if we were still in grade
school, re-read my post. Over and over again until you finally
understand what I am talking about.

today, is a new year. i am forgiving all transgressions today. aren't we lucky.

mouse, the case is closed. as you said, we are not in grade school, and as such, i am not in any position to "NEED" to listen to you.

i may have misread your reply, but i also feel you entirely misread yaks as well.

bottomline, you are allowed to disagree, but do not take both sides of the discussion and try to win with it.

also, do not talk to me as if i am a stupid, i play dumb sometimes, but it is hardly the case.

anywho's, in this one instance, i think gwil satisfied my point, even if he didn't realize it yet.

You are just missing my point, and it's so obviously clear that it
makes me think you are unable to reason. When I think this, my
wording becomes a little harsher, this is why you feel like I am
talking to you as if you were stupid.

I am not trying to win or lose a discussion. This is not a battle
or a competition. A problem like "how many DM spawns should I put
in my map" is not one that is limited to one solution. My
solution would be to have around 8-14 spawns. Regardless of how
many people can fit in the map, unless it was an epic like Eden or
Merlin.

This is less than Yak would put in, yes. I then listed some
justifications for why I would place that many spawns in, and my
feelings on why too many spawn points or too few spawn points would
impede gameplay.

Therefore I feel like 8-14 is a good number.

That's not a side, that's not a winner, and that's not a loser. That's how I do it. K, Thanks.

puts on scholar hat and prepares to educate new member

Mouse, you said the words "I disagree" you stated your position, if you chose to deny that that is a side, then all i can say is "tomato" (long A) and "tomato"(short A). in other words its semantics, you chose to ignore your side in favor of sounding smart in the ways of mapping.

Secondly, do not talk to me as if you know me. you may be a someone someplace, but here, you are new. you have an opinion, but it is not one that allows you to decide how "able" i am to reason.

thirdly... the maps in HL2 will probably be larger in scope and area to most of the HL1 maps, so given the areas involved, 20 player starts may not even be enough either. so a "side" is moot.

i am not attempting to be unreasonable, but when you call me out with an "unable" comment, all you are going to do is incite me to a position of defending myself.

my advice to you is, to sit back and learn. this forum is one of the best online forums i have ever had the pleasure of being a part of, but being new is not a strategic position to make waves from.

as i said, its a new year, and i am forgiving today. please be so in return. if i read your comment incorrectly, then i was wrong.

Stop harassing people.

The position of "wise teacher" you seem to have appointed to yourself
comes across as arrogant, pompous and starts flames with people - which
you deliberately perpetuate, for whatever reasons, I cannot fathom.

There has come 2 needless arguments in my immediate recollection, both centred around you and your crusades to "educate" noobs.

perhaps it is time to eat humble pie and educate yourself, because
portraying yourself as the guru is making a lot of hassle and a lot of
unhappy new members.

there are ways to tell people things, without coming out aloof.