Controle

Very intresting speach

Saw this over at digg.com

I agree with much of what this guy is saying. Though I feel that I'm on a strange angle as an "artist."

I put my little (c) on my work, and put time into contracts with
clients. I feel, though, that I do this becuase I'm trying to
keep the "evil" from stealing my work. Not the littly kiddy who
use my pics on their
myspace
accounts. I don't want slimy people getting their hands on
my stuff and using it to make money for crappy products. I feel
that if I made music, I'd have the same feelings. If a 12 year
old wants a song of mine, or some grandma downloads a single from me
thats just my ideas flowing into the world community.

But when someone takes something from me, like a decompiled map, and
then hacks it into some crap and call it their own... thats when having
the option to sue someone comes in handy.

[edit] ok I switched that myspace's guy's background, it was hot linked to my site. I'm having a little fun with him :wink:

what did he have before on his myspace? it looks still like your picture.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

interesting read.....and yes, it makes me think about my own music yet again....

Doc B... :dodgy:

Prepare for ranting and ignore this post as per usual.

This entire area of discussion pisses me off to no end.

Paying people for their creative work is one thing. Copyright law has spiraled into something else. It's just bizarre that you can make a product ... then add onto it just to find out someone else has already added onto your product in a similar fashion and they're suing you for copyright infringement. (This wouldn't fly if the add on is a natural progression of design, otherwise ... it would work)

These "laws" in this sense are a disgusting, ugly beast, that'd most likely be better off shot.

I believe, record labels can sue artists for distributing their own music too. Yeah, I know, it doesn't make sense.

I think, there should be caps on the amount of profit third party people can make. Like a record label or production studio. After that point, they have no say. It would still make them insanely wealthy and people could keep control of their personal intellectual property.

That and most legal "contracts" that lead to this type of situation are usually legally unjust and should be contested.

I guess I'm done.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I think that people when they, for example, buy a CD in store they pay not so much for the music licence - they pay for having it in a nice box, with a cover picture, a booklet ect. Something to put in the shelf. And last but not least the feel of "owning" it, showing that you support the band.

The music itself, as harsh as it sounds, isn't worth that much. The whole internet "piracy" scene has proven that music is just a piece of information and can be copied as a 3 MB file and sent over the internet for almost 0 cost.

I see record label bosses, richer than the Queen, living on their own islands with houses so big that they hardly ever get to visit most of the rooms. Why are music superstars (some of which got famous long after Napster and Co.) so awfully rich? Why do they have massive gold chains with their name on it? What do they need 20 cars for. They don't know what to do with their money. They have too much of it. The piracy scene is regulative. It shows that music, isn't worth that much. They complain about not making money like crazy and I don't feel sorry for them at all. Noone should.

I guess you could say that "those who can't do, produce"

If record lables picked up bands based on the quality of their work I
could respect that (see anticon records). But most sign bands
that fit into an equation of loss vs profit. If a band won't
appeal to x number of 15-35 year olds with disposable income they wont
bit. On top of that, its less about the music and more about the
person making the music. You know all the names of celebs in the
music world, but you don't remeber their songs, or what any of those
songs were about...

Worst yet, they target minors as if they were big tabaco. Teach
the kids what and who is good. Then sue them if they don't spend
$20 on a CD.

Crono, reaper... /agree

hmm....where do i start.

ill give you an example, and let the opinions come forth, and then maybe retort a bit. prefaced by saying, "ive been in some s**tty work thru the years, namely construction, filled with assholes and crooks, and money grubbing bottom line bottom feeders, and have been signed to two different record labels .....and there is nothing id rather do than record and make music for a living, which i have done...but in the same token, there is no bigger set of crooks, liars, backstabbers, and bulls**t artists than in the record business...."

the last band i was in that was signed was called "my church band"....a play on words, as music was sort of a religion...*groan... we signed a three album, 5 year contract with this label, and were given a producer, who shall remain nameless, who booked us in some great gigs, got us recording time, and basicly set us up for a great future....we hit the road, touring with the likes of Kansas, iron butterfly, marshall tucker, and even did a stint with robin trower...

life was good....i paid off my house, made great cash, pleased alot of folk along the way, and got some great memories....

a year and 5 months in, we go to the studio....yeah, this is where we make or piece of the real pie....the anticipation was high, as were the spirits and expectations....

....and then it went as follows...

our same producer, being of the detroit sound from years back, got it in his head that we needed choreography....now bear in mind we are a hard rockin' band, punch ya in the face with it from front to back....long hair, marshall stacks, huge double base drumset, and lights, lasers, and women everywhere....get the picture?

now picture that same group of long haired rockers trying to do motown steps to please a producer....i mean, old school stuff in the vein of, oh, the temptations, or chi-lites....needless to say, it went over like a led zeppelin...we tried, but it f**ked us up more than anything....but we were contractually obligated to do what the producer said....see a problem brewing? we sure as hell did....and it took about another year before the band basicly imploded, and the guys went thier seperate ways....to this day i only keep in touch with one of them, and they all live here in town, thats how nasty it got....anyway, i digress....

after the fur had settled back down, it comes to light that we still are owned and operated by these folks, and it took3 more years before we were allowed to legally record, produce, or gig, without them (the label) getting a large piece of the little pie that was left...they pwned us...literally....and we still cant use the music we made in that time period....i still have a bad taste in my mouth from it....

the point is, record companies are evil....and you really have to be in line with thier thinking, right or wrong, for the average joe band to succeed....they have you over a barrel from the getgo, and unless you are independantly wealthy, you dont have a chance in hell of winning a court case over it....

it took mettalica what?....5 years to win their suit...and they are....mettalica.

my music is my music....i dreamed it, i built it, i slaved over it, i nurtured it, and i lived it. and this jerkoff stole it. plain and simply. f**k em....i hope they rot in hell.....do i sound bitter?...you bet yer ass and yer housecat bud. but here is the real problem....for an artist, its like air.....you need it, you feel it, you get emotional over it....you cant live without it...its in yer blood....

....and any SOB that tries to tell me what i can and cant do with it can kiss the spotty fat part of my ass....if i want to sell you my song for five thousand dollars, or fifty cents, its my decision....they would not have approached us for a deal in the first place if they didnt think they could make something off it....

im tired.....naptime....i request any and all opinions on this .... :wink:

Doc Brasso... :dodgy:

LAME!

PseudoInternetPromise: If I get money, I'll give you some and a law team to go after them. Pursue it to higher courts, lets see if the justice system really works.

If only America wasn't filled with morons who'd do anything to be famous, record labels (as such) might actually appreciate the limited talented individuals they actually have.

I honestly think it should be a law that in the creative realm of things, the production studio, record label, or whom ever, only owns it for a small amount of time, then it defaults to the creator (With a cap on something insane like ... 200% profit, since they're making far more than that now) It makes no sense how you can legally use someone to make a crap load of money then kick them to the curb. No sense at all. Especially if they're the ENTIRE reason why you made the money in the first place.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Yeah, i agree Crono. It's like a stripper cutting off her boobs. Makes no sense.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

ROFLMFAO!!!!! nickle, sometimes you just friggin' kill me man.... damn what an ugly visual....i like the analogy though, ive been a music whore for ever...!!!

Crones, i wish i could muster the strength and courage to go against the f**kers, but its been a long time now, and id just as soon forget it....thanx for the thought though... :wink:

Doc B... :dodgy:

The reason HL2: Episode 1 costs $20 is because Valve's distributor didn't want to detract from the sale of the game in boxes.

So stop hating Valve :razz:

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Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

Dude, Valve's 'distributor' is steam, for pete's sake.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Not for boxed stuff.

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Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

oh. I still hate steam. I'd rather buy a CD or DVD than have to trust them to keep track of what I've bought if my computer crashes.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>This is about control over culture and knowledge. Because whoever controls them, controls the world. </DIV></DIV>

I lol at conspiracy theories.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>It is something we are proud of. [Being a pirate.] </DIV></DIV>

Ok buddy: If you're proud of being a pirate, then I want you to post a message telling everyone every piece of music, software, or anything you have warezed' or illeagally downloaded off of the internet.

Oh wait, that would probably land you in jail, and we can't have that now can we.

But of course, you're proud to be a pirate :rolleyes:

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Filesharing involves simultaneous uploading and downloading by every connected person. There is no central point of control at all; instead we have a situation where the culture and the information flow organically between millions of different people.

Something totally different, something totally new in the history of human communications. There is no more a person that can be made responsible if wrong knowledge happens to spread.
</DIV></DIV>

I'm quoting this just to make sure that I seem to understand what he's saying.

Someone prove me wrong if I am

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Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it

This is about control over culture and knowledge. Because whoever controls them, controls the world.

I lol at conspiracy theories.

Not to be a dick. But you should study history a little more. Because, this happens constantly. It isn't as prevalent in the 1st and 2nd world countries anymore, but is still a very valid statement.

And to some degree, it happens very specifically in the US!

Ok buddy: If you're proud of being a pirate, then I want you to post a message telling everyone every piece of music, software, or anything you have warezed' or illeagally downloaded off of the internet.
Oh wait, that would probably land you in jail, and we can't have that now can we.
But of course, you're proud to be a pirate :rolleyes:

Post that on the forum you read the message on, and you'll get a better response than from people who read the same article perhaps?

Filesharing involves simultaneous uploading and downloading by every connected person. There is no central point of control at all; instead we have a situation where the culture and the information flow organically between millions of different people.
Something totally different, something totally new in the history of human communications. There is no more a person that can be made responsible if wrong knowledge happens to spread.[/b]

I'm quoting this just to make sure that I seem to understand what he's saying.
Someone prove me wrong if I am

Prove you wrong what? What don't you understand? (I am confused by this statement)

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Crono</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

Not to be a dick. But you should study history a little more. Because, this happens constantly. It isn't as prevalent in the 1st and 2nd world countries anymore, but is still a very valid statement.

And to some degree, it happens very specifically in the US!

</DIV></DIV>

I know it has happened in the past; I'm thinking, more or less, of present time.

As far as it goes in the U.S. : I really try not to judge or believe things on sight. I wait a while and wait for other information to pop-up. If push comes to shove, I go hunting on my own.

On a side note; I read about "Pirate Parties" which are hoping to get copyright rules and the patent system. I realize that this appears to be mostly European/Swedish orientated, but if these thoughts were to lapse over into the U.S., then think of the back firing consequences? No patent laws would me I could claim ownership for some other guy's invention. One could say they created someone else's map, when they didn't.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Crono</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Post that on the forum you read the message on, and you'll get a better response than from people who read the same article perhaps? </DIV></DIV>

While saying "no" to that would cause me to look like I don't believe in what I'm saying, that entire site seems to be about people who are for pirating and dislike copyright laws and such. That would be like me trying to convince a pacifist on why war is the answer (and no, I don't always feel that war is the best way for things. It's a comparison.)

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Crono</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Prove you wrong what? What don't you understand? (I am confused by this statement)</DIV></DIV>

I think the whole pirate thing is about being allowed to illeagaly download things and such. Along those lines. Am I wrong? If I am, then like I said, fill me in.

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Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it

I think your taking this a little to literally. I sum it up as:

The people who controle the content see the internet, and see how free
it can be. How they can lose controle, like the controle they had
over dr.B, like the controle they had/have over how and when and where
valve sells their games. So to protect that they attack the
people they depend on. Put a few heads on a pike to keep the rest
of us in-line and lineing their pockets.

But we arn't, I see the internet opening up. Information is getting free.

It isn't about downloading a free game, its about developer---->me.

unlike develper---->"the man"---+$--->me:(

Right.

As I said, I have no problem paying people for their due work. As, I imagine many of those individuals may feel (the poster, most likely).

The issue comes in where there is someone in the middle, not only making ALL the money off of the situation, but throwing a very large and expensive tantrum when they see something threatening their comfortable situation. (What do you think the giant lawsuit between Valve and Vivindi was about regarding Steam?)

That's how I see it, anyway.

As for "being a pirate", that, as far as I can tell, is a sort of political or ethical statement. Since, being a pirate means you're flat out stealing.

Then there's the entire aspect of what if the product sucks and it's shoved down our throats? Companies go as far as to plant reviews to get people to buy it.

They also employ many illegal tactics of their own. It's just a sour and bitter situation and it isn't going to get better.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

? quoting Crono

I think the whole pirate thing is about being allowed to illeagaly download things and such. Along those lines. Am I wrong? If I am, then like I said, fill me in.

The files are shared privately. It's like suing someone for sending a friend a tape with your favourite songs. Record companies shouldn't have the power to sue you for that.

? quoting Crono

I
think the whole pirate thing is about being allowed to illeagaly
download things and such. Along those lines. Am I wrong? If I am, then
like I said, fill me in.

The files are shared privately.
It's like suing someone for sending a friend a tape with your favourite
songs. Record companies shouldn't have the power to sue you for
that.

I don't like this kind of argument, its not even the same
ballpark. I mean I give friends mix tapes, but don't have 12
million friends who can all get mix tapes from me at the same time.

I'm not saying I don't steal and share. But I don't trick myself into thinking its right, I just feel like the people who tell me its not right are infact wrong

Crono said:
The files are shared privately.
It's like suing someone for sending a friend a tape with your favourite
songs. Record companies shouldn't have the power to sue you for
that.

I don't like this kind of argument, its not even the same
ballpark. I mean I give friends mix tapes, but don't have 12
million friends who can all get mix tapes from me at the same time.

I'm not saying I don't steal and share. But I don't trick myself into thinking its right, I just feel like the people who tell me its not right are infact wrong

If you download a file from another user you didn't "steal" anything (compared to, for example, stealing the CD from a store which then cannot be sold anymore). You just copied the file at your own cost. People still buy CDs in stores and it's still a (big) business. Now they're earning a good amount of money with online MP3 stores.

The question isn't wheter it's right or wrong (it's illegal by most laws) but wheter you should feel guilty for it. Wheter the record labels should be able to control the internet because of a few % of lost money.

_________________________

PS: Why can't I get those quotes to work properly?

ok yeah, I agree with that.

These laws are so ludacris becuase they assume that I would have went
out and spent money on their s**tty CD if I wasn't able to download
it.

I could "steal" steam games, but I want to own them because I get so
much from those games. But when some half-ass game comes out, I'm
not paying $50 for it. I don't care if the developers spent alot
of time on it, most of them are talentless hacks who don't deserve sh*t
for the sh*t they try and sell me.

What I feel that all these people don't seem to relize is that most
people are quite happy to pay for something, but we don't want to pay
the same amount for a fraction of the quality.

Nor do we want to buy the exact same thing more than once. *cough*StarWars*cough*

This is a huge thing with DVDs that pisses me off to no end. At least SAY you're mentioning a longer version or something at the initial release, like they did with LOTR. People wont be as pissed.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

You don't STEAL a car if your buddy jacks it and gives it to you, but you're still in posession of stolen property. Still against the law.

I thought I was the only one who sends people mix-tapes!!! I love to send them to the girls that I like and then in the middle of the songs I record myself screaming thier names. Works every time!!!

I think that downloading songs you didn't buy is wrong if the songs are copyrighted material. If you're downloading a movie theme song, or something from Beethoven, then its okay. I mean... the stuff's COPYRIGHTED, it means "Don't Copy this."

There's a million reasons you can try to use to justify copying a movie, but fact is it TELLS you at the beginning that the FBI doesn't want you copying it.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com