Rotation tool or vertex manipulation

Hi there, I would like to make a simple corridor section like a middle bit, then two other bits going off at a 45 degree angle. I have tried rotating and clipping the relevent brushes, but even a simple 45 degree rotation seems to make the brushes I am working with (64 units in width) go off even the smallest grid size. I have also tried vertex manip but these seems to make my brushes go into really odd, irregular shapes. To give an example of what I mean, take this test map for example: http://s8.quicksharing.com/v/4448689/Test_map.ZIP.html The reason I'm fretting about this it it seems so very simple, and I would have assumed use of the clip tool. So I decided to do one of these to see if I could and I was quite surprised by the fact that I couldn't do it properly as it seems so very simple

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding

Vertex manipulation or clipping only. Rotating usually rotates brush corners into impossible positions and can cause compile crashes (for larger geometry like walls). Except for 90? rotations, they're fine.

I like this tutorial, it's a bit more specific but that's how you deal with non-90? corners:

http://www.snarkpit.net/editing.php?page=tutorials&game=HL&id=96

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Why snark works.

Hang on what do you mean "except for 90 degress, they are fine" I didn't use the rotation tool for 90 degrees, infact 45 degrees. So I don't get it. I have brushes that don't fit on the grid at all even though my rotation stands at 15 degrees per turn. Let me bottom line it for you guys: Due to the fact that I can't clip the brushes accurately because of the rotation tool moving brushes in such a way that they don't fit on any grid size, I am forced into using vertex manip which I can't seem to do without my brushes going into silly shapes as demonstrated in the .vmf

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding

Any 15 degree rotations are likely to result in off-grid vertices (except for 90 degree rotations), but that isn't likely to cause much trouble. Just be aware of the fact that those vertices will be snapped to the nearest grid point at compile-time. For rough architecture brushes, it isn't very clean to work with so it's not really a desireable situation, but for smaller objects, func_details and such, it isn't something to worry about. For the rough architecture however, there are cleaner ways.

There are multiple ways in fact. You could, indeed, rotate, but that's the least elegant way. Better is the shear method, which allows you to slide one of the sides away. And of course, vertex manipulation is possible, but it's a quirky tool if you're not familiar with it. There are a few rules to keep in mind, such as that faces must always be completely flag (e.g. a curved face is invalid). However, if you select vertices in the 2D view, with a normal brush, you'll always select both the top and bottom vertex, so moving them around won't usually cause trouble. Just don't go dragging individual vertices around. It's probably better to go for the yellow dots, the edges, those may be easier to work with for you, in this case.

I couldn't find any funny brushes in the map you provided bytheway. Are you sure you uploaded the right one? I saw an L-shaped corridor with a triangular hint brush placed inside, and an outside room with some combine barriers.

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

Yo, P I don't know what the devil happened there. I found an autosave with the crap that I wanted you to peep tho so it's okay. Could it maybe because I didn't zip it? I'll zip it this time anyhow. Basically they blocks go weird shapes when I manipulate them on any grid size. Also, if you look at the hallway that was been clipped, it has small gaps in it presumably caused by rotating the brushes. Here's the file: http://s8.quicksharing.com/v/4448689/Test_map.ZIP.html

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding

I meant that 90? rotations won't cause your brushes to go out of grid. Everything else (45?, 15?, 30?, 91?, 92?, 17?,....) causes troubles because the corners snap off grid.

The BSP looks fine to me, basically. Do you mean the problems you mentioned appear in game after the map compiled?

The lower, apparently vertex-edited version looks fine. Just make sure that all corners are snapped to grid in vertex mode, even the lower part of the walls that doesn't intersect with the corner. Keep all your brush corners to the largest grid always.

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Why snark works.

Hmm, I see the problem. Some of those brushes don't align well and others are oddly shaped. The odd shapes aren't really a problem since you won't be seeing them in-game like that, but the misaligned vertices may be somewhat risky. Plus, it doesn't look neat in the 2D windows. :smile:

Here, take a look at this addition. The right corner is done by shearing the walls and clipping the floor part here and there (not necessary, but it's more compact and easy to manage in the 2D windows). The left corridor is done by shearing as well, but I modified the end of those wall brushes with the vertex manipulation tool a bit to make it a bit cleaner to work with. I hope this gives a good idea of how you can do this.

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

Oh so that's what the shear is. Yeah, I know this one. I had a look at your demonstrations and I used the methods that you mentioned and suprisingly arrived at a similar result Thanks for your collective time Reaper47 and Captain P I'm glad I have began to see the light

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding