Yak_Fighter said:
[quote=Riven][quote=Kasperg]I always took criticism when needed, and discarded it when it wasn't going to help my maps by MY point of view. Me being of course, the #1 person who should be pleased with the final result. Any mapper who maps for the fans above themselves is either lying or is a complete ass and is wasting his time pathetically. I'm sorry to be so direct, but that's my personal view on that.

I think the surge of so many custom maps and mods for the HL series (a lot of them being as good or better than the retail content) created a legion of pampered players who all of a sudden deserved quality work and the strict meeting of standards from those altruist level designers and had the authority to criticize and mock the works in question, as if releasing a map was automatically making it a contestant for some stupid competition to see if "his is bigger than yours!". Quite stupid, and defies all the basic premises of what mapping was for me. 1)A pass-time for my enjoyment 2)A creative and learning process in which experience made the following work better 3)A way to keep the games I liked alive by sharing the maps with a community and providing people with free fun, just as I got from theirs.

The moment you think maps and mods are commercial products just like films and retail games, you've failed and killed the community. It happened in Snark Pit, it happened or will happen here. All this has happened, and will happen again. Drive away those who are learning, attack those who are still releasing stuff. Great job![/quote]

hahaha what the fuck is this? Sounds like this guy is a bitter old baby who can't take criticism, despite what he claims.

EDIT: I mean seriously, this post is wrong in so many ways it hurts.[/quote]

Geez, I'm way too nice to have ever put it this way, but on some level I agree... The logical conclusion of the "I only map for myself" attitude is not releasing your maps at all. Even if you make only artsy niche maps, there is an audience for that. And there sure are artsy niche maps of varying quality, so feedback is useful even there.

If there is any medium where the audience is truly a part of your creation, it's computer games...

Riven said:

Kasperg said:
I always took criticism when needed, and discarded it when it wasn't going to help my maps by MY point of view. Me being of course, the #1 person who should be pleased with the final result. Any mapper who maps for the fans above themselves is either lying or is a complete ass and is wasting his time pathetically. I'm sorry to be so direct, but that's my personal view on that.

I think the surge of so many custom maps and mods for the HL series (a lot of them being as good or better than the retail content) created a legion of pampered players who all of a sudden deserved quality work and the strict meeting of standards from those altruist level designers and had the authority to criticize and mock the works in question, as if releasing a map was automatically making it a contestant for some stupid competition to see if "his is bigger than yours!". Quite stupid, and defies all the basic premises of what mapping was for me. 1)A pass-time for my enjoyment 2)A creative and learning process in which experience made the following work better 3)A way to keep the games I liked alive by sharing the maps with a community and providing people with free fun, just as I got from theirs.

The moment you think maps and mods are commercial products just like films and retail games, you've failed and killed the community. It happened in Snark Pit, it happened or will happen here. All this has happened, and will happen again. Drive away those who are learning, attack those who are still releasing stuff. Great job!

hahaha what the fuck is this? Sounds like this guy is a bitter old baby who can't take criticism, despite what he claims.

EDIT: I mean seriously, this post is wrong in so many ways it hurts.

I remember reading somewhere on the site just before I joined that reviews were likely to frank, honest and scathing in their criticism. I accepted that and fully expected to get nailed on my first release. I am glad to see that you are taking it in stride.

Any art form has to evolve, and it is possible to put gameplay and finesse in the same project, even in hl2dm. ( airfusion ! ) You are perfectly entitled to make fun simple maps where you can have a few laughs with the regulars in-game, but there will come a point where you realise you actually know something more about mapping, and then you will want to expand your horizons. That is when the support of places like this will become more helpful.

fyi I have always avoided killboxes because my machine and my connection are crap. So I will probably not visit this map more than once. Don't take it personally. Biohazard? See ya there!

gvault said:
Seriously thanks for having a site for the mapping world though, I have read alot of great posts and have DL'd alot of great maps (of all sorts)..hehehhe cya

8.9.30.166:27015

I have the maps on rotation here. Just the 2 most recent ones..

Many of us enjoy even New Killboxes.. but its your site and your thoughts so I respect that... Ill upload my non-killbox maps asap.

This has been fun guys.. cya all ingame sometime..

(what an active topic, this deserves the SPOTLIGHT Slot... muhahahaa..

Seriously thanks for having a site for the mapping world though, I have read alot of great posts and have DL'd alot of great maps (of all sorts)..hehehhe cya

Well, here at the Pit, we'll accept any map you choose to upload to our servers (unless it's in really really bad taste [porno textures covering every surface etc...])

But we are a mapping community, and while we enjoy a fun killbox every now and then, they don't add to the community. What I mean by this is: We are progressive mappers, we like to improve our skills and make advancements from project to project, not re-hashes. Killboxes are re-hashings of a simple idea and because of that, most users might start with just killboxes and learn to make more interesting maps as they continue their mapping journey.

We aren't here to fall into the elitist trap. Kasperg put it so elegantly when he made this post on TWHL here: TWHL Post (To find the quote posted below, simply use the CTRL+F command and type "snark" -the post containing that word is what is posted below)

Kasperg said:
I always took criticism when needed, and discarded it when it wasn't going to help my maps by MY point of view. Me being of course, the #1 person who should be pleased with the final result. Any mapper who maps for the fans above themselves is either lying or is a complete ass and is wasting his time pathetically. I'm sorry to be so direct, but that's my personal view on that.

I think the surge of so many custom maps and mods for the HL series (a lot of them being as good or better than the retail content) created a legion of pampered players who all of a sudden deserved quality work and the strict meeting of standards from those altruist level designers and had the authority to criticize and mock the works in question, as if releasing a map was automatically making it a contestant for some stupid competition to see if "his is bigger than yours!". Quite stupid, and defies all the basic premises of what mapping was for me. 1)A pass-time for my enjoyment 2)A creative and learning process in which experience made the following work better 3)A way to keep the games I liked alive by sharing the maps with a community and providing people with free fun, just as I got from theirs.

The moment you think maps and mods are commercial products just like films and retail games, you've failed and killed the community. It happened in Snark Pit, it happened or will happen here. All this has happened, and will happen again. Drive away those who are learning, attack those who are still releasing stuff. Great job!

-And that's what we DON'T aim to do here

I think If people are looking for improvement, they'll ask for it or otherwise make comments in their map profiles asking for opinions, THEN our mapping standards comparison charts can be pulled out.

If you want to improve your mapping, that's what this place is all about. If you're looking for a dumping grounds for your latest releases, we politely accept that too, but be warned, some members expect most maps posted here to be coming from people who are looking for improvements, and not just unloading their library of killboxes.

We're planning on adding a new FAQ page (as soon as I can get one organized) to make these issues apparent to new members, but as it stands now, all maps have commenting turned on, and some people will assume they're asking for it. I'm sure no one will refuse comments about their work, but the quality of those comments will definitely be focused on that of comparisons of Valve maps and other professionally done levels. Like I said, we assume most people here want to be progressive.

'nuff said, I'll shut up now

Nope.. Not I sir. I don't stir anything.. I just shoot from the hip. Sorry if I come across rude.. don't mean too.. just don't have a good bed side manner. Being a former cop/soldier I tend to like to cut though any BS and get to the point as fast as I can. I apologize if that comes across rude.

And if you look I made the post in jest.. I even added the needed happy face, that I am told says hey look I am smiling this is funny, so laugh with me.

It was not like I said Hey man this map is shit, you should have your fingers broken so you can never map again. That's an example.. no one harm this person.. or else.

These guys here have berated me to death over the whole kill box thing... and I thank them for it.. they pushed me to do more, to be better, and I fought them tooth and nail. In the end, I have put forth much better product because of them.. So I am grateful. If I poke you a bit here and there it is because I want the same for you. You have talent, and your not living up to you gift. That is all.

I am also a player.. I like a good kill box now and then. The Gun Game needs great kill boxes.

Please post your server detail.. I would love to come by and play on them. Even more so if you have your maps in the rotation.

Ahh man no hard feelings.. and if there is, I'll shoot you in the face on your server. lol

Hey Look a Cow hoping up and down BANG HEADSHOT!

Im not hear to make any one sad..lol just thought your post came across kinda rude... as if you were wanting to talk crap. Im here to uplaod maps for some that may want to play it... no hard feelings here... Muhnay you sure like to stir the pot

about the snow map.. It seems like an open area but, the ice breaks in 2 large spots, causing you to fall into water, makes the map a bit more fun then a regular killbox.. Weapon placement is a bit more controlled then I normally place em... Im not a strategic player, I just love being in the action, so give me a gun..lol

I play Low grav and I enjoy killboxes and they never get old for me and the many that still play them. About speed, - speeding up the server (host_timescale 1.2) can also give this map a new element of gameplay... fly through maps, its a blast... so the open killbox can be alot of fun that way... I know there are many KB's out there but from the feedback I get on my maps on my servers and a few others, its always positive, so I thought maybe some other server owners may want to give them a try, if not, fuk it..lol

Im here to play the game, and I happen to like messing around with hammer.. thats about it..

Im not the type to talk shit on anybody and I dont mind feedback like many of you have given. I support the game by having 3 servers and I also have a kick ass - crysis wars server (check it out..) Lead a few clans and continue to always fall back onto HL2DM, I just cant leave it..lol

Well now you know a bit about me and if I came across wrong, sorry about that, but Munhay.. you started it :P jk..hehehee cya ingame!

Look at that you made Reaper turn blue and sad, and there is a tear running down his cheek.. that's not very nice.

If your not here to learn and grow, then why are you here? Not that I want to run you off or anything.. just wondering what you expect to get out of this group and site is all.

cough it's not killbox and it's not a killbox - it's obviously a killcylinder