max_patches hack

isnt there a way to extend the max_patches in an NS map to aqueeze in that extra vit of mapping madness??

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

Yes. Run the -sparse parameter in HLRAD. This has absolutely no risk and no disadvantage except for a possible increase in compile times.

So far as I know, the tricks for avoiding max_patches, max_clipnodes and max_planes work in all mods.

thank you G.....this flu is kickin my arse to the mat....i knew there was a way.....i sure wish some of those tuts were back up.....

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

No problem :smile: Get well soon BTW!

thsank you sir, your very kind....btw, do you have any winning lottery numbers, o God of Boulders?? ///reoffers sacrificial daughter.... :heee:

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

I can see that this signature is more trouble than it's worth. Oh well, so be it :heee: Still, it's good for yet another bad pun:

I'm afraid I only have the lottery numbers when it's a roll-over :biggrin:

I thought -sparse just used a compressed vismatrix? Or does "exceeded max patches" just mean you ran out of RAM?

yer allowed 65353 "patches" to use in a standard map setup, and these are mathematicly calculated with different texture scalling, etc........there are various ways to get around it, but the hack is used when all others are exchausted....example...exterior or unseen textures can be scaled way up, and thatll save you some room....

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

and Mike, i told ya about that "other God like entity "thing didnt i??....roflmao yer wit is exceeded only by your " Gollum-like features....

ah - from ZHLTReference.html:

<TABLE>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD class=headingCELL>HLRAD</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>
<TABLE width="100%">
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD class=topicalCELL width=120>-sparse</TD>
<TD class=textualCELL>Enable low memory vismatrix algorithm
The original vismatrix algorithm was limited to 65535 patches due to its design. Its memory usage also grew exponentially with the number of patches (patches * patches / 16 bytes). This option enables a compressed vismatrix, which at the cost of extra CPU time, breaks the 65535 limit, and also uses about 10% of the memory the vismatrix would.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Also, why bother scaling unseen textures way up when you can just texture them with NULL and take them out of the BSP entirely? It's like painting unseen faces in Quake 2 with SKY, except this method actually works in HL... :smile:

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

1: unseen exterious faces are culled, thus they produce no patches.

2: As gollum said, you can break the 65,535 limit by using the -sparse command, but if you are around 150,000 even that may not be enough and you might have to use the -nomatrix switch. The -nomatrix method produces the same results, but can take a longer time, especially if you have opaque entities.

well, im here to tell ya, ive saved my patches by doing exactly what i said....maybe its in the setup of my tools or whatever, but, either way......

and hornpipe, i never said it was the definative way to do it, i just know its worked for me in the past....

Doc B

Its still not necessairily a bad idea to null the outside of your map just in case some of it isnt culled, like if its a little pocket of space that isnt in your map but is isnt touching the void either.

just so maybe we can update the database for ole Lep a bit, as well as myself needing a hand, different tools take different placements of said command line parameters....for instance....hammer tools is one way, HLCC does it another, TBCC another, etc etc....i dont have the skillz to write anything up, but if one of you cerebral type mapping guru godlike creatures from another world could find it in yer heart to write something up, i, and my lesser deified counterparts would be greatful indeed.... :heee:

///offers up one slightly used sacrifice to the mapping gods, raises said sacrifice high above head, grabs hernia........

Doc Brasso... :dodgy:

Personally I start with every brush being textured with NULL, then I texture all the visible parts one by one, it saves on every unnecessary face and allows for more detail.

That's an......interesting way to work :razz: You'd better not miss a face then, or you get some nasty texture errors. Still, I can kinda see the logic, even if it does seem a bit unnecessary.

As for different compile frontends and the like.......well, I only use my own batch files, but for a frontend I expect you just "tick the box" for a parameter. For a batch file, the correct syntax is to leave a space after the map path and follow it with the parameter preffixed with a dash. You need spaces between parameters too, and between parameters and their values. For example:

hlrad.exe c:\hammer\maps\map1.map -extra -smooth 80 -estimate -chart -low -sparse

Gollum said:
That's an......interesting way to work :razz: You'd better not miss a face then, or you get some nasty texture errors. Still, I can kinda see the logic, even if it does seem a bit unnecessary.

As for different compile frontends and the like.......well, I only use my own batch files, but for a frontend I expect you just "tick the box" for a parameter. For a batch file, the correct syntax is to leave a space after the map path and follow it with the parameter preffixed with a dash. You need spaces between parameters too, and between parameters and their values. For example:

hlrad.exe c:hammermapsmap1.map -extra -smooth 80 -estimate -chart [color=red]-low -sparse[/color]

i think this one doesnt belong, or will at the very least , cancel out the extra..

/me not sure tho.. but i dont recal a low param for rad.

[edit].. /me checks, there is a low param, but i would still think it would cancel out the extra param..

don't forget to bounce it a few times.. unless you want stark shadows

The -low parameter just sets the compile tools to low priority, meaning that the rest of your system can continue to run smoothly with the compile in the background. It has nothing to do with the BSP output.

/me stands corrected then, i always assumed it was the intensity of the compile, not the resources it acquired..

/me learns something new.. thanks mike.

For a complete description of compile parameters, look at the "ZHLTReference.html" document that comes with Zoner's tools :smile:

maybe i wasnt specific enough in my request....

ok....joe shmoe uses HLCC (ok, im joe shmoe, the secrets out... :heee: )

there are no boxes for -sparse....

where do you put it....the only real command line is in the very first param box....

so it would go something like this then?

C:\SIERRA\Half-Life\hl.exe -console -dev -particles 50000 -sparse

yes? no? maybe?

the point is, i cant find anything definitive to say " shove it right here Al"

.....and i thought it might help not only me, but other noobs to find out how to do it in thier respective compile setups....i havent had to use it before because ive managed to squeeze out every last patch i could under other "cruder" methods....

but this one i cant.... :biggrin:

comments?

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

no..

use HLCC to generate a batch file.

it will upon request.

edit the batchfile provided with the sparse command.

double-click the batch file and recompile.

when using HLCC to make said batchfile, it is not important to complete the compile to get it.

start HLCC, and immediately shut off the compile window..

the batchfile will be made anyways..

said file will be placed in the same folder as HLCC.

thank you.....

i will now scurry back to my hole quietly contemplating the state of the universe.... :wink:

Doc ... :dodgy:

doc, i am the only real advocate to HLCC, why didn't you ask me sooner?

HLCC is old, but it is cunning in its simplicity.

people always underestimate its uses.. course you may have to cheat like the batchfile thing, but whatever works right ?

if you have more issues with HLCC, contact me.

i appreciate it man.....like i said, this is the only time ive had to attempt this feature, and i was really suprised to see there was nothing about it in ALL the literature i read last night till 3 in the friggin morning with my eyes hurting sick from the flu and crabby and cussing at verc and other various sites trying not to swallow my pride and living up to my tenacious rep and.....and.... um....er....

you get the picture.....btw, even the batch file stuff i read didnt mention it... :rolleyes: nor was there anything on the home page for this guy.....i found that irritating as hell tbh....

i even tried to draw excerpts from autocad batch files that might be applicable....to no avail....

thanx orph..... :wink: relinquishes sacrifice :eek:

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

cant get it to work......GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR...

i know im missing something small....its usually the case.... :biggrin:

Doc B...."twitching"

1) set up HLCC for a normal compile, be sure to tick box "generate batch file"

2) look in the folder with HLCC for a batch file named "HLCC"

3) right click on it and click "EDIT"

4) add the "-sparse" command to the last part of the HLRAD line.. be sure its spelled correctly

5) save

6) doubleclick on the HLCC batchfile..

it will work IF HLCC DID

hope this clarifies

Gorbachev said:
Personally I start with every brush being textured with NULL, then I texture all the visible parts one by one, it saves on every unnecessary face and allows for more detail.

That's exactly how I build mine, except I usually get fed up with it halfway through and just start making blocks out of the texture I want. In my custom WAD I have an UNTEX texture that I apply to everything first - it's brightly colored so I can see if I've forgotten to texture something in one of my levels.

The SPLA people will probably be pretty annoyed though if they try to interface with my walls when they're giant NULL blocks, but we'll see how that goes.

belay my last PM orph....i got er figured.... thanx man..... :wink:

note: DO NOT USE MORE THAN ONE INSTANCE OF HLCC IF YOU CANT KEEP TRACK OF YER f**kING DIRECTORIES..!!!

:heee:

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

told ya it was something small.....but it hadnt occured to me it was a stupid mistake too.... :redface:

Why would you compile two maps at once anyways, unless you had a ridiculous amount of faith in the hardware capabilities of your computer?

have you never heard of experimentation?

or is there something else youd care to say to me?

Doc Brass...

and btw, i have a tremendous amount of faith in all my systems....any questions?

Unless you are using the -low parameter it would probably be faster to do each compile seperately rather than together for multiple map compiles.

ok...this is getting a bit out of hand.....

dont think i dont appreciate the input gents, because i seriously really do, but.....

let me clarify what my problem was....if you read back thru the last few posts after i declared my problem solved, youll get this info from them....

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="95%" align=center>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; COLOR: gold">? posted by <A href="" target=_blank Brasso?? users.php?name="Dr" <A>www.snarkpit.com</A> http:>Dr Brasso</A></TD>
<TR>
<TD bgColor=#151515>
belay my last PM orph....i got er figured.... thanx man..... :wink:

note: DO NOT USE MORE THAN ONE INSTANCE OF HLCC IF YOU CANT KEEP TRACK OF YER f**kING DIRECTORIES..!!!

:heee:

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

told ya it was something small.....but it hadnt occured to me it was a stupid mistake too.... :redface:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="95%" align=center>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; COLOR: gold">? posted by <A href="" target=_blank users.php?name='Hornpipe2""' <A>www.snarkpit.com</A> http:>Hornpipe2</A></TD>
<TR>
<TD bgColor=#151515>
Why would you compile two maps at once anyways, unless you had a ridiculous amount of faith in the hardware capabilities of your computer?

at this point i began to get a bit....well....pissy, to say the least....

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="95%" align=center>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; COLOR: gold">? posted by <A href="" target=_blank Brasso?? users.php?name="Dr" <A>www.snarkpit.com</A> http:>Dr Brasso</A></TD>
<TR>
<TD bgColor=#151515>
have you never heard of experimentation?

or is there something else youd care to say to me?

Doc Brass...

and btw, i have a tremendous amount of faith in all my systems....any questions?

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="95%" align=center>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; COLOR: gold">? posted by <A href="" target=_blank users.php?name='Gorbachev""' <A>www.snarkpit.com</A> http:>Gorbachev</A></TD>
<TR>
<TD bgColor=#151515>
Unless you are using the -low parameter it would probably be faster to do each compile seperately rather than together for multiple map compiles.

now for the clarification, of which orpheus was somewhat aware, as a few other folks on this forum....

i run 5 different pcs, 4 of which are on a router, 3 of which have mapping materials , tools, etc on them....1 i use strictly for work, (occasionally 2)...

the problem occured when i had a second and third instance of HLCC on my one computer in particular, and forgot to change the dirrectory to a non experimentaion directory...follow?

in theory i can compile 4 maps at a time and still do my work.....but since i didnt really elaborate at the time, it was assumed for whatever reason, maybe my fault, that i was trying to shove all this s**t in at one time on one computer,compiling them all at once........not the case....i hope that clarified it, for my tormentors... ....and set the record straight.....any questions?? ....christ, i think im gonna have a stroke......

no, im not a dumbass, i just happen to have too much s**t in my reach.....the woes of age and financial ...umm...happiness... :heee:

Doc Brass....f**king worn out, and still... :dodgy:

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

doc, breathe in, breathe out :smile:

its text bud, just text.. it sucks woefully at communication.

i am confused on the importance of why here, but tis no biggie.. its text.

i wish i had so many capable PC's to compile with..

remember, it did sorta sound like you were compiling them all on one PC at once..

would take a powerful pc indeed.

breathe in, breathe out.

I must admit, it did sound to me too as though you were compiling the maps all on one PC. But that could be because I'm a presumptive asswipe who doesn't always read carefully before he judges :heee:

Anyway, distributed compiling across a network and/or separately over multiple PCs seems like a good idea, but I would fnd it damn confusing to set up the first time.

well, to be honest, i suppose it did.....and im not gonna sit here and tell you i havent tried this feat of daring before, with really crappy consequenses....ie, froze after about 30 seconds.... but in this case, im thinking thie "pissy point' comes from a different reason....trust me on that one guys.... :wink:

....and i really do NOT want this tremendously helpful thread to go south...hell, ive learned quite a bit from this one indeed....hell, i didnt even know mikee was a regular contributor to verc collective till i started my foray into this problem.....so i will abstain from any further deliberation on THAT aspect of it.....

anyway.....maybe we can turn this into the...."all the little secrets about compiling out of the ordinary, but were afraid to ask" thread..... :heee:

yep...in all its glory, unless you become very wordy and technical and as fun to read as a wet fart, the english language can at times, well......suck bigtime. i am however grateful to my "pit brethren" for all their input...it is absolutely invaluable to me....if ya ever have any questions on autocad, or wanna build a house and some aspect is buggin' you.....gimme a holler....thats MY field of expertise...... :wink:

damn i love this s**t....so....so.....cerebrally stimulating....***reaches for aspirin.... :biggrin:

Doc Brass... :dodgy:

In autocad, can you get a drawing where all the dimensions would be printed out with the dimensions drawn on the print out?

ya know, kinda like a blueprint

most certainly....thats one of its major uses in an architectural setting

Doc B... :dodgy:

I sent ya a PM bud thanks

....hell, i didnt even know mikee was a regular contributor to verc collective till i started my foray into this problem.....

Funny, neither did I

well, Gollum...(if that is your real name... )...i read a rad tut involving the algorithms that had commentaries from "Gollum", and forgive me if i mislead you....it was a very succinct comment ....i "assumed" it was you....my bad...*callls imf force to uncover a well educated, yet obviously inferior imposter... :wink:

Doc Brass.... :dodgy:

....and that was just one of a few....

No, you're quite right - that was me I was making a smart-arse maths comment though :biggrin:

There's probably about 3 comments in total from me on that website, so I'm not really a regular.