U.S. Passport

Meaningless jabber?

If that's all you think I'm bringing to the table I can see why you're disagreeing with me.

I'm not making this personal. I don't see any personal attacks in
any of my posts. I haven't called you names, or made any
derogatory comments. I've only dealt with the contents of your
responses.

If anything, you're insulting my intelligence. You probably don't
think you are, but when you say things like "I'm sorry but if thats all
either of you got out of my
posts then it
really creates no incentive to continue discussing it now does
there?" it puts the blame on me (for being unable to see your intent /
meaning clearly in what you've written) for what you see as a failure
in the discussion.

To be honest, this debate has taken so many turns and digressions that
I can't keep it straight. I think I need a fresh start with a
single point or facet of the argument to discuss. I'm not sure
where we should start. Do you have a specific idea we can discuss?

Addicted to Morphine said:
Do you have a specific idea we can discuss?

Yes, names. Mine is Jonathan. Nice to meet you. I prefer rice instead of noodles and think there is no God. However, if there were one he must have a sense of humor as anyone who has seen the platypus would agree.

Now, I think we can discuss anything between rice and God. :smile:

I would recommend that if you want to discuss things with me in the future, try not to key in on any one portion. I had some pretty nifty comments in there. :razz:

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Well met Jonathan, I'm Tom. I actually prefer noodles (everything
from soba to spaghetti), but fried rice is pretty damn good. I
know we can't prove the existence of non-existence of God, but I don't
think He exists either.

As far as U.S. Passports, I'm pretty much done with this discussion, I'm too tired to think right now. :smile:

Ahh, only if Orph is here now.

I think the discussion has fallen apart. Apparently, people's perspective has more to do with their fundamental values, and no one is likely to change their values based on a forum discussion.

Therefore, I think we should drop the subject and let the thread die quietly (even though I started it). That would be for the better.

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"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge

But?!?! I really do like rice.

As to the subject at hand. I believe that things will happen. Its up to each of us to deal with those events as best we can. True, discussing them in a simple forum atmosphere will not really alter anything, nor anyones perspective on such events.

I see things in this manner. You may expand upon them in almost any way you wish as long as you keep your thoughts to yourself. It truly is not your place to decide if I am living my life immorally or amorally.

This is how I view life. If one knows that to do something that in so doing it they may come to harm, then don't do it. In other words, if you are gay, do not go into a redneck bar and proclaim your freedom to be such. If you know that poking a sleeping bear will get you mauled do not poke it and so on and so on, etc.etc. (be aware that any example I use is purely for example purposes and in no way denotes my belief that such events should happen)

Yes, I realize that this is a weird way to view life but when push comes to shove, what can one person really do but keep your head down and push ever onward.

On a side note, I had home made chicken soup tonight, what did you have for supper?

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

oh.. thank you.... :rolleyes:

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Nickelplate said:
oh.. thank you.... :rolleyes:

Somehow I get the feeling that you were answering in your rap thread, but it somehow got posted here, as it simply doesn't fit at all.

Perhaps it would be best not to have two windows open at once?

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Microwaved frozen Chinese food and soy milk. I am lactose intolerant.

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"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge

Microwaved frozen Chinese food and soy milk. I am lactose intolerant.

You poor thing. That medicine to help eat dairy products not help you?

I cannot imagine not being able to eat dairy....especially Steak. :heee:

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

I often wondered what the point was to arguing online. I realized
today that even if no one ever changes their opinions online, it's
beneficial for both of them to have to think through their positions
and articulate their points. Even if no one is swayed or changed,
its self-enriching to have to present and defend your own
beliefs. Oftentimes we talk about issues that I've never put a
lot of thought into, or perhaps only had a gut-reaction. After
discussions online I'm usually much clearer on where I stand on issues.

Sadly, I have never walked away from any confrontation online and felt
vindicated. Even when I am correct. Somehow in the back of my mind I
know that the other person never did see things like I intended them
too. I do not mean that I failed to convince them. I mean that they
simply do not see it as clearly as I do.

This feeling doesn't alter whether I am right or wrong because somehow
conversing via the net always leaves a portion of the communication
process missing.

Thats my primary reason for never arguing. If I even think the
discussion is faltering, or leading toward a confrontation I back off.
There simply is no way to win once one or the other parties gets all
fuzzle headed.

Oft times is purely a lack of basic comprehension that does it.
Sometimes its culteral. Sometimes its even education, or the lack of
one but once anger kicks in, the discussion is lost. To all involved.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

"Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics: even if you win, You're still retarded..."

But really I agree with Morphine. It's good to know WHY you beleive something.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

<div class="quote"><div class="quotetitle">? quoting Underdog:</div><div class="quotetext">Sadly, I have never walked away from any confrontation online and felt
vindicated. Even when I am correct. Somehow in the back of my mind I
know that the other person never did see things like I intended them
too. I do not mean that I failed to convince them. I mean that they
simply do not see it as clearly as I do.

</div></div>

My point is that the benefits of the discussion come during the
formulation of your position. When you have to truly sit down and
think about what you believe in and why.

For me, vindication doesn't often come into it. I don't think
I've ever changed someone's mind and I don't expect to. But
sometimes I change my own mind (ie my initial reaction) when I first
sit down and think the issue through.

I know I have said this before, but perhaps not here. Please do not use the "retarded" reference to illustrate your point.

I have family with downs and its a touchy subject.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Primary reason for never arguing? Wtf ... you have a reason not to argue? Fooled me.

You just don't get it do you? There is no "winning" it's a goddamn discussion. Maybe that's why you're butting heads with so many members so often.

It isn't a lack of comprehension on their part. Reading this thread, specifically, I can see that you, Underdog, are the one that is not comprehending the others points.

You gagged on words like, "wrong", as if it were some definite ending argument or something. Another thing I noticed is you automatically jumped to it being "personal" when no one attacked you ... period. If anything you were calling your fellow debaters intellectual unequal to yourself.

Also, if you want your points and posts to be more convincing or ... coherent. Proof read for grammatical mistakes.

Take this with a grain of salt if you like. Ignore it if you want. But it is an objective observation.

[update]
Morphine, exactly.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

...anyway.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Underdog</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I know I have said this before, but perhaps not here. Please do not use the "retarded" reference to illustrate your point.

I have family with downs and its a touchy subject.

</DIV></DIV>

It shouldn't be that touchy a subject. I've got some family with mental disorders, and they're like any other person in the fact that they have a sense of humor and can take a joke.

BTW. downs sucks... :sad:

ALSO, crono. I agree, that is why we present opposing sides of mostly everything and we still come out of each thread happy and not pissed at eachother. because we realize that its not a peronal insult to be disagreed with. It's an opportunity to talk with somene and debate, not to fight.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Underdog said:
I know I have said this before, but perhaps not here. Please do not use the "retarded" reference to illustrate your point.

I have family with downs and its a touchy subject.

It shouldn't be that touchy a subject. I've got some family with
mental disorders, and they're like any other person in the fact that
they have a sense of humor and can take a joke.

BTW. downs sucks... :sad:

ALSO, crono. I agree, that is why we present opposing sides of
mostly everything and we still come out of each thread happy and not
pissed at eachother. because we realize that its not a peronal insult
to be disagreed with. It's an opportunity to talk with somene and
debate, not to fight.

And you guys say that I lack comprehension?

The comment you made wasn't a joke. It was a blatant stick in the eye to all people with downs.

Secondly, this isn't a majority rules community. Just because many/all
fail to comprehend my point when I made one doesn't reduce it to
something less acceptable.

As I said.... "anyway"

Can we move along before we start having a show of hands on who agrees with whom. :sad:

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Silence of the Lambs said:
It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again.

Yes. I agree, Nickel.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I'm glad you know what I meant. because I needed someone to tell me what I meant when I said something.

Is there anything else I meant when I said something? anything I wouldnt know because I said it?

kthx

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

With the herding instinct you guys display, I almost imagine that you
were picked on severely as children. I have seen almost no
individuality. Many replies begin, or contain the words "I agree with.."

Heaven help you if you ever need to debate anyone in a one on one conversation.

True, this is a forum and its really hard to have a real conversation but still you should try it sometime.

As difficult as it may seem, there are those who are self reliant
enough to not lean on others. You will almost never hear me say "You
are wrong", "I agree with.." or worse, use someones name to single them
out to prove a point.

Take this with a grain of salt if you like. Ignore it if you want. But it is an objective observation.

My words exactly.

With that, I bid you all good night.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

You should bid us goodnight a la Holden Caulfield.

Underdog. Seriosuly man, You need to read some of the past trheads and get a feel for it. Crono and I DISAGREE on most EVERYTHING...

Just because someone agrees with someone else doesnt mean that it's not THIER own opinion.

Here's something we can all agree upon: You're a grump.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

I agree.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

With the herding instinct you guys display, I almost imagine that you
were picked on severely as children. I have seen almost no
individuality. Many replies begin, or contain the words "I agree with.."

Yes but it saves typing out the exact same thing that someone else has
possibly worded better. There aren't too many sides to this really, and
in my humble opinion voicing dismay at cradle to grave surveilance and
its abuses shows more individuality than being an advocate for
something decided for your the good of everybody. Other than stopping
us from cracking each others skulls open now and again governments
should really butt out of peoples lives.

Some people might feel better knowing that everyone is being watched
carefully, but once a government has that level of control over the
population bad things happen to democracy. Two words: McCarthy
Witchhunt (or is witchunt 2 words?) :smile:

*puts on his tinfoil hat to keep 'them' stealing his thoughts and sits in a corner...

Underdog. Seriosuly man, You need to read some of the past
trheads and get a feel for it. Crono and I DISAGREE on most
EVERYTHING...
Just because someone agrees with someone else doesnt mean that it's not THIER own opinion.

Here's something we can all agree upon: You're a grump.

Its Gramps, not grump you silly hillbilly. And you a spelling freak.

The problem is, last time I checked conversations generally run both
ways. To hear you all talk, its what you say and my white noise. It
seems to me that your station is a bit off because you cannot fully
grasp a word I am saying.

If that comes off grumpy, get over it as its a bit old after the first 10 or 12 "I agree withs"

Call it what you will but it seems an awful lot like you are
vindicating what you say at my expense. If thats wrong, oh well I have
been wrong before and probably will again.

In the end however, How I read almost every reply was "your rights are
yours only so long as no one else's imposes upon them then its ok to
squash them" cause thats exactly what you've been doing to me every
time you don't acknowledge my point of view as valid. Not that I am
right but valid.

Now, either we have a continued conversation, or we have a herd. I do
not converse with cows so it might be best if you consider that.
Assuming you want to of course.

(I used the spell checker
and about to post but the window bunched up all my words into one
endless line. If it stays that way, its NOT my doing)

<span style="color: red;">

[edit] Sorry
my words are all bunched. Its not worth seperating them again. Stupid spell checker. :sad:

I'm off to bed, perhaps the herd will have dispersed by morning.

</span>

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Oh, gooey. Things are getting juicy.

Boy, I love watching my loved ones bickering.

<br style="color: lightblue;">
Can't we just all get along? :smile:

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"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge

Underdog-

I'm not doing anything at your expense. and perhaps you could start making a little more sense or explaining yourself better since you want to be understood.

Seek first to understand, then to be understood.

I'm not a cow. I pay attention to what other say and I present my side whether it agrees with others or not, as you can see by my anti-abortion, premarital sex, gay sex, evolution, etc and pro-creationism-and-Christianity attitude that has been posted time and time again in this forum. I don't waver or simply agree for any reason. I agree when my beleifs or opinions agree.

i'm probably one of 5 Christian Conservatives in here. You'll notice everyone knows that.

Sorry, if you think I am being mean, or something. Just take a time out, chill. and come back with a clear head. Anger clouds judgement.. and spelling too :biggrin:

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Sorry, if you think I am being mean, or something. Just take
a time out, chill. and come back with a clear head. Anger clouds
judgement.. and spelling too :biggrin:

You took everything I said
tonight and reduced it to this one small post. That you can reduce an entire night to, "He's upset?"

Do you have any idea how that looks?

Have a nice day.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.