I need...

i wanna build a mod, i understand the codings and C and C++ for it, but where do i find a free program to run all that thats up to date and i dont have to play over 140 bucks for... is wavelength still around? if anyone of u know a site where i can get a free program thats just like wavelength, please post it :sad: i've been looking for hours and had no luck

Wilddoggie said:
i wanna build a mod, i understand the codings and C and C++ for it

C and C++ are "the codings". What is it you understand?

Wilddoggie said:
but where do i find a free program to run all that thats up to date and i dont have to play over 140 bucks for...

What exactly is "all that " ? If you want a compiler, it's going to be very difficult without VC++. I suppose there are a few Borland ports around, and you might be able to h4x the code enough to work with DJGPP, but VC++ is most definitely the best for this purpose. I suggest you spend the money if you're serious about this.

<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 width="95%" align=center bgColor=black>

<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; COLOR: gold">? posted by www.snarkpit.com http:>Wilddoggie</A></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD bgColor=#151515>
is wavelength still around?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes. http://www.thewavelength.net

Wilddoggie said:
if anyone of u know a site where i can get a free program thats just like wavelength, please post it :sad:

If you want a free compiler, try DGJPP (Google, if you don't know where). If you want a "program that's just like wavelength", I'm afraid I can't help you. Wavelength is NOT a program. Borland has a free c++ compiler. Search Google using the words borland, c++, and compiler.

Ditto. C and C++ are different languages, btw, and the Half-Life SDK is in C++. As for development environment, Fraggard is right - only VC++ will really work properly with modding. There are some ports, but they're a bit outdated and create complications.

However, your school/college/university should be able to get you a discount on VC++, as it would "technically" be for learning purposes.

You should give a gander at the Intel 7.0 C++ compiler and the GNU Win32 compiler.

GNU is incredible to be quite honest. It's very strict, but good. However, it probably wont work well using MS libraries.

Are you talking about IDEs??

There's a crap load, for Linux and Windows.

A pretty good one is Eclipse. There's also Netbeans and some other free ones out there.

They're recource hogs though so watch out. The only other thing is, you have to configure them your self. They are mainly made for Java, but there are plenty of C++ plug-ins. and you can select what compiler you want and all that stuff. . .

By the way, CJ, my school wouldn't do that . . . they would tell me to shut up and use the Free Unix lab . . . or the Solaris Systems.

Oh Borland is good as well. But those are about it as far as free goes.

You could shell out some money for .NET . . . (yuck) . . . or you could Download Eclipse which has the same interface after tweaking.

Check out, scourceforge.

And something you should remember is that just because the program is going to be used for windows, doesn't mean the whole thing has to be written in Visual C++. In fact you should only put the Microsoft stuff in that way.

But I'm sure no one is going to agree with me here.

Hope some of that information helps, and I appologize if some of it sounds like dribble, it's late and I'm very tired.

Crono said:
You could shell out some money for .NET . . . (yuck) . . .

When you have enough money to get .Net, you'd better buy VC++.

.Net platform is a bit of a pain in the ass ... most users don't have the framework installed, so they're not really interested in a program that's missing some file, and they don't read the web page that has a link where to download it.

Why won't gcc work? That's free and in it's latest version is meant to produce code as good as Intel's own compiler...

.NET has Visual C++ and the Framework, however, the framework is free.

gcc is GNUs C compiller, you want g++ which is GNUs C++ compiler . . . and that's what I said to get. Or did you mean GCC: GNU Compiler Collection, Jeff?

Look,

Go Here: VIDE

This is the kind of thing I was talking about, a free IDE, with multi-language support integration. It gives the same 'effect' as .NET, but with pure languages.

That specific IDE Usues GNU for C and C++ as well as Borland 5.5.
It also comes with Suns Standard Java Development Kit.
It supports (VIDE): C/C++, Java, Perl, TeX, Fortran, and HTML.

It also has text highlighting which is helpful. Meaning if you type something and you forget like a semi colon or if your function names don't match up it highlights the line.

I suggest using GNU Compiler with this, even though borland is great, simply because this IDE Specifically supports gdb, the GNU Debugger.

This tool is all you really need. If you really want any sort of Visual C++ you can download them, it doesn't matter if they are ripped or not, because they are ancient, Microsoft doesn't make money on the older versions anymore. You can find them on Kazaa . . . I'd scan them though.

Anyway, I really suggest V IDE.
Hope it helps.

actually im looking for a program like this :
MICROSOFT - Visual C++ .Net 2003 Standard, English
but thats over $200 here, i can essilly find the other components i need to run it, butt i need that program, or something simular and free.
what i meant before was that i know how to code using C or C++

vide looks good, i downloaded it, thank you crono, i can finally get started on something i've wanted to do for months, there is another question i have, in the single player half life campaign, they make a bunch of small maps, and add them together using triggers to make a level. how do i do that?

Look for info on the following entities:

• trigger_changelevel
• info_landmark

You need these to make level transitions. Try searching, since info is available. All it takes is time and interest.

http://www.bloodshed.net/devcpp.htm

Free C/C++ compiler and IDE based on MINGW/somethingorother, I don't recall. Probably a Cygwin version of GCC.

I highly recommend it. If you need a library (SDL, Allegro, crypto, etc) you can download packages and updates from within the program. It's great.l

Don't mention it,Wild, If you really want .NET stuff, it's not hard to get. You just need to find a Microsoft Compiler and the Librairies, (Which come with the DirectX End user agreement).

If you're working with any IDE, if they support Win32 Apps, they should be able to integrate the DirectX libraries needed.

If you're working with HL SDK, it comes with all the code you need and the libraires for Half-Life development.

And to be honest, the only thing .NET is good for is creating apps that integrate into the web quickly. That's their Tag-line. other then that its the same as any windows compatible IDE.

As for the V IDE I mentioned earlier, it sure does beat Vi (ahhh color).

One more thing,

I'm not picking on you, ForceFlow, or anything, but this is really funny:

When you have enough money to get .Net, you'd better buy VC++.

Please let me know if you don't understand why.

-Later.

Whoops.

Ok, scrapple that line.

My opinion is: If you don't need .NET, then don't.

after thinking on this a lot more, and doing a big load of research i've decided to go out and buy a $240 program coding thing, and my schools teach basic and advaced C++ classes so you know a lot more before you get to college or university, so im gonna take those classes, even though i probably know everything in the basic classes, and imma go out and buy that program, maybe a few others, and im gonna start on my game, im probably not gonna do a mod, when i can make my own characters, weapons, levels, game menus and stuff, but is it possable to make a game engine using C++?

Holy molly your quite ambitious. Spend $240 on software though seems a bit extreme. Stick with mapping is what I say.

I use dev-c++, which I thought used 'gcc', and I also thought this 'gcc' can compile C and C++ code. Maybe you can work out from that what I'm talking about because I don't really know :smile:

Dude, Wild,

Don't buy .NET if you're going to make your own game.

Don't initially write it using the DirectX libraries, use the OpenGL ones. That way it will port to mostly all platforms.
If you want to tweak it for windows later, it's easy.
Trust me, I have .NET, I got it for free, and I wouldn't have it any other way. It is NOT worth your money.
Yeah you can create game engines using C++
However, I don't think you should jump into making a game until you take a university level class on programming.
We're not even aloud to touch a non-Unix Computer basically.

GNU is the way togo, they are one of the only companies which still support the International Standard, Microsoft has buchard the standard.
If you develop the game not using Visual Studio it will most likely run much better, unless you're not a very good programmer.

Exactly what is your level in coding, Wild? Whats the most advanced Idea you know in C++?

Would you even consider optimizing the code? Would you use Java in certain areas which aren't really time dependant?

I mean all in all it is up to you. But I really don't suggest you buy .NET It's a waste of money.

Oh and Jeff, is it gcc or GCC? GNU did something funky, they named their compiler pack the same name as their C compiler.

gcc is the C compiler.
g++ is the C++ compiler.
GCC is a pack of a bunch of compilers uncluding gcc and g++.

I greatly doubt you're compiling C++ code with the gcc compiler, it just wouldn't work, unless you never used classes/new/delete/cout/and the iostream library. So you're using g++. Anyway . . . Don't buy .NET I'll hurt you lol.

It's kind of the same aspect as a web developer calling themselves a web master and they're only framilure with Dreamweaver.

OK I am using those things so I guess I must be using the GNU pack, if that comes with Dev-C++, then I definately am.

I realise this will sound very n00bish, but I first did 'programming' with PHP, and for that there is a help file which has every available function with a description of it's inputs and outputs, and often a bit of example code. But when I want to do something new in c++, it takes me forever to find out how. I wanted to make a program just move a file (without outputting the existing file one char at a time to a new file), and ended up on some microsoft site, using windows.h and some 'windows' functions. I don't like doing this because I prefer to know what is actually happening. This is what also makes me not like things like Borland Builder, where you can just draw a few buttons and asign code to them without ever knowing how it all actually works... I did a basic university course on C++ programming, but it only covered the basics, and we only made console apps. Do I really need to get a book to advance further?

Wilddoggie said:
but is it possable to make a game engine using C++?

Yes.

A good example (I think it was writtin in C++) http://wouter.fov120.com/cube/index.php4

Yeah Jeff, you do.

By the way, what do you think those macros are doing? They're moving the information one character at a time in most cases.

You could try some referencing if you want stuff copied over, but that's if you want to re-invent the wheel. The only time you should be concerned with making a new copy command like you're saying you want to do is if the OS doesn't have a good one or none at all.

So what I'm saying is . . . don't try to make small functions like that, mold a program that will need that and use that library. I mean, would you want to re-write the iostream library? I think not.

A really really good book is "C++ Primer Plus" By Stephen Prata. Published by "The Waite Group" I have the 3rd edition, they're up to a fourth, the only difference is that the 4th edition costs 20 dollars more lol. And yeah That is the ONLY difference.

The book is worth it though, why? It explains the entire C++ language, head to toe. Ever wonder what an Array really does? read this book.

It also goes into more advanced ideas like Inheritence and Operator Overloading. However, you shouldn't rely on one book alone. Just be aware that, sadly, most programming books are flat out wrong in advanced ideas and some simple ones.

I found a book once that said Prefix incrementing/decramenting and postfix (i.e. ++x prefix x++ postfix)
they said those were the exact same . . . oh and their not.

Just to let everyone know though, if you do take University classes on the subject . . . be prepared to work very hard. I'm currently in the last Syntax class, it's my 3rd time taking it! It's really hard. Not because of the ideas just because of the time frame, there's a program due every 2 weeks, and we have to make them work, document them, and generate enough output. It's nuts. The class is CS202 by the way, its a pretty standard class which is probably all over the country, the name is Programming Systems.

Oh Jeff, don't think you're a noob for working in PHP, I just started messing around with PHP, Even though I've been programming for like 5 years in various languages. I'm actually amazed at how powerful PHP really is.

Also, something you guys might want to consider if you don't know how to program, start with an easy language, don't start with C++ unless you're taking a class, you'll need something to refrence to. I suggest Java, it has the same power as C/C++ but it's slower, because it cleans up your mess. However, it is much easier to program, even though it has the same ideas.

I believe a friend of mine half-assed-programmed a chat room in an hour using Java. The only problem is, run time sucks! Its slow!
So for games the best is C++, by the way, sometimes that doesn't cut it either, so you take the parts you want to cut down and you re-code them in Assembly, now that language is a pain in the ass.

Jeff, you want to know whats really going on? Try assembly language. . .

You know I'll make this easier, if anyone has any questions about any programming crap just email me . . . its in my profile...

Later guys. . .

P.S. WILD DON'T BUY .NET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DON'T FUEL THE FIRE OF MICROSOFT.

PPS. If you pay for Windows OS, stop. I'll send you a copy if you pay the shipping, I think a couple bucks is a better price then you know 100.

[EDIT] I forgot to make a comment on ForceFlows link there. IT WAS WRITTEN USING OPENGL!!!! AND ITS MULTI PLATFORM I GUARANTEE YOU THEY DIDN'T USE .NET!!! DON'T BUY IT!! lol.

And yeah it was written in C++ it had to of been. It wouldn't run fast enough otherwise, however, they probably broke some of it down to assmbly, notice the part that says: "The engine uses brute force instead of finely tuned complexity"

The bad thing about that would be . . . the engine is set in stone. If the engine is complex it is usually made for modification. Anyway, I've babbled long enough.[/EDIT]

lol, i dont really see whats wrong with .net, it cant be that bad for its money, its the program that college and university students taking advanced c++ clases get in their course fee (here in canada) i know all the things i need to make models, guns, cars, and have the character interact with them in a game, so i could probably get my own game started, but i dont wanna use any half life based stuff for the game (except for hammer editor) i think ill use that to design my own levels, but im gonna create my own engine and Dlls files, its gonna take a very long time. and as you guys can tell im extremely horrible at making multi player maps.

There's nothing wrong with .NET. It's a perfectly usable IDE and compiler, its debugger is second to none, and it will, in fact, generate code.

Here's why you might not want to use .NET:

1) It costs money. A lot of money. For someone with little to no programming experience, it's silly to drop $240 on something you might not use too much. We recommended several alternatives that are free and compile just as well as .Net - e.g. using Dev-C++, PellesC, Eclipse, DJGPP (well, not really recommended...) - definitely look into these before you go buy .Net.

2) It compiles Windows applications. Probably not that big of a deal, but if you ever wrote a game that, say, a Linux or Mac user might want to play, tough. It's a difficult task to port something like a game from Microsoft's setup to a more portable setup, though it's certainly doable if you stick to your standard C/C++ functions as much as possible.

3) Speaking of which, .Net does not adhere strictly to the C/C++ standards that other programs use. Again, that's fine for now, but if the user doesn't have the .Net framework then they're screwed. Also, if you start getting dependent on functions that .net provides that aren't in the standard, you're screwed when you get to a different compiler without 'em.

Thank you Hornpipe, Those are the exact reasons why I was saying you really shouldn't use .NET

I mean obviously, yeah you can. But you're limiting your self and your projects delelopment.

I also found another pretty good IDE, Netbeans. It's pretty nice, I've been messing with it.

Wild, just because you want to write an engine that encorperates Hammer doesn't mean you have to write specifically in .NET you just need a Windows Compiler for C++. Unless you want to, as Hornpipe said, use .NET functions, and not many people want to download the framework (I think Nem has one or two tools actually worth the .NET framework download, GCF scape being one of them).
But do as you will, it's your money that you're wasting.
.NETs debugger debugs .NETs compiled programs . . . there are little tricks that Microsoft doesn't allow in general.
Not to mention the whole Global issue. If you think using globals for most varibles is alright then I suggest you read up on programming practice. Because the DirectX libraries REQUIRE you to use globals, its the way it was written.

That's why I suggested writting your engine using OpenGL, non-windows IDE. That way it can be ported just by changing compilers and it would run on EVERYTHING. Windows, Linux, OSX. Thats a bigger audience then just Windows.

Now something that might come into play is whether you prefer ATI or nVidia. Or lets call it what it is: Direct3D or OpenGL lol.

I just think before you even consider starting a game engine you should research some hardware so you can develop acordingly. Such as, do you want it to run on a 64-bit platform?
If you do, don't think you can write normal code and have it work just as well as it does on your X86.

These are just some things to think about and you wouldn't think about any of them if you made your application using .NET

I suggest that you (Wild) try developing a simple text editor using DirectX and one using OpenGL, see which library you like more, use a free IDE to make it as well, mess with compilers get some tests going on compiler optimization.

Then if you still want .NET you can waste your money.

Saying you're a .NET developer is kinda like going to a computer repair shop and boasting that are A+ Certifiied . . . You'll only get laughed at by the rest of that community.

[edit]Wild, you do know that for you to make any money off of this game you want to make, you'd have to make a personal agreement with Valve, because you're using their Editor. Gearbox had to make the same sort of agreement and they re-wrote half of it. Which is what you'd have to do as well, just to mention, because you are infact, not using the HL engine.[/edit]

Thanks Crono. I've actually done a reasonable ammount of assembly, but for a simpler processor. So having done that and php, I thought c++ would be ok, especially having a basic class on it here at uni. I suppose what I meant was that surely if I end up using windows.h, my program won't work on different platforms... that seems kinda lame to me.

Would Wild have to rewrite the editor? Why couldn't he just make his game able to read the bsp format?

Because, that's not how Hammer works.

If you notice when you compile maps you tell it what compilers to use. However! Hammer is already set up to use the Half-life Directory system, and it will get whiney if you change things and actually execute them in the compiling process, but you can turn them off and move maps and things manually if you like.

He can use BSP's He just has to write the compiler him self. I said re-writing Hammer would be a wise idea, that would be the only way to make it work properly, simply because Hammer is made for Half-Life's Engine. Just as The Unreal editor is made for the Unreal engine. If you write a new engine, don't conform to someone elses standard, if you do that why didn't you just use their engine and get their permission to use it?

All I'm saying is, if you're going to write something new and you want to use a current program, you're going to have to tweak it, unless it follows the current file structure and you write your own compilers. That's all.

By the way Jeff, that book rocks. It would have been cool if you found it like a year ago though, before they printed a fourth edition, it would have been 30 bucks then (its about 60 now).

Doesn't assembly bite some ass? lol

I refused to use MASM in my class (the microsoft Version) and I used NASM instead (Linux Version) and it was a lot harder, but well rewarded. the only thing that really really sucks is input and output . . . eww God I think I'm gonna be sick ....lol.

Another book that everyone who owns and IDE should have is this: "The C Programming Language Second Edition" By Brain W. Kernighan and Dennis M. Ritchie.

The book is on C, but it has an amazing amount of information, it's basically the Programming standard at every university for the last 25 years when the first edition was printed. (The Second Edition was released in 1988! How rock solid is that? cough Before Microsoft cough).

I believe one of its best aspects is the table of presidence.
what will this do:

a = ++i+++j--; lol presidence comes in handy

Anyway, does this sound like babbel or useful information?
Anyone can answer that question.