Stupid Ass Kids..

Cash Car Star said:
For the record, I have never stated at all that I was anti-gun. "Your argument is just as good as mine" I take to be complete bullshit because I know I haven't made a comment either way on the issue (besides a throw-away yugo gag). I've only asked you to start putting down some reasons. You finally did in that last post: hunting game.

Surprise, surprise, I'm not anti-gun. I'm against private ownership of automatic weaponry, but reasons for private ownership of guns:

• Some people like to hunt game
• Some people enjoy recreational shooting such as at a firing range or skeet shooting
• Some people live in an area where they need firearms to protect their property and their own well-being
• Some people own livestock and need the firearms to kill/scare off predators

Already I have made more points than you have in the past three pages of posts. And that really was my point.

but see, there in lies my point as well..

some questions really do not require or expect answers..

true gun haters could still find issues with all 4 of your examples because all 4 have other means of rendition, meaning in other words, all 4 can be done as effectively without guns..

whether someone is pro or anti gun can not be satisfactorily expressed in such a way as to ever IMO enlighten the other side in a way that will ever be convincing..

as for my being surprised at your real location in all this.. nothing surprises me, after-all this is text communication, it is all to easy to miss the subtle markers that would suggest you were either..

my apologies but it happens..

/me employs diversionary tactic....puts on catchers mask and pads, and goes to the plate.......

personaly, (and this is all im gonna say about it either way) im thinking that guns in the original sense where made for, killing....enemies, prey, whatever....the us, (and many other so called "civilized" countries of the world)were founded by its employ. its a mind set. grown of years of use, mostly out of need. the inovation of man.....if that gives you a level of importance to work with....

to change it would take an, well, act of congress...literally. and since its not happened yet, well, you see my point.

run the whole world thru a "mind-altering, local lobotomising s**theadedness shrinkng" ray and we might stand a chance.....

the point is....see wtf is in front of you, think as a rational human in ALL instances, and logic and rational will be obvious.....guns kill, maime and destroy.....if you want them to.....they are as dangerous as the moron whos using it is.....Peace.

Dr Brasso... :dodgy:

personally, i feel that in at least my case, i am trying so hard to prove that i can actually see both sides of this issue, that it is diluting my position for either side :sad:

i do indeed see it both ways, but people who cannot, only see my position as one of indecisiveness..

the fact that i am alone, or appear to be in this instance only reinforces that opinion..

i am not close minded, just strong willed in my rights of being strongly opinionated, i feel its my right to be just as forceful in my views as necessary to get the point across, problem is, some people can detect strong will individuals and in their own way set up defenses to them, and in this way become closed minded as a defensive tactic, when otherwise they would have been receptive..

i feel that if anyone is capable, that they can scan backward thru this topic, and given time can figure out exactly what i was trying to say, without putting blinders on, due to their getting either annoyed, or angry..

i have said my piece, and my position is clear, now its up to anyone else to figure out if they are able to see it to..

/outa here

"I think the world is getting to the point when having a child needs to be authorized by the government, too many on the streets or with hideously stupid parents..." No offence, but thats almost as dumbassed as the kids who re-enacted gta. What, throw away our freedom? I mean an America where the gov't acts as the parrent is no America. And though it's bean stated, I'll say it again. If your that mentally unstable, anything will push you off the edge. It's not because of a video game. It's because people never take acountability for there actions. Another example of how overly-liberal politics have bad conciqunences. So, do overly conservative ones, but that's another day, another fight. </rant>

Myrk- said:
Yer I agree with Gorby. Guns are so easy to kill with, point and pull, done. And no mark is left at the crime scene apart from a bullet, something there are so many of.

I am digging up an old post on this thread so please forgive me.

There was an example of this "point and shoot" idea in the states i dont know how long ago. A student walked into his highschool and held up his fathers pistol and just started firing down the hallway. 7 people were hit, five of them in the head. Now a lot of dumbass CS players [ i myself am a cs player, but not a stupid one :wink: ] would hear this and be like "WHOA!! 5 HEADSHOTS!! :O:O:O he ish l337" these are the people that would try it IMO. When the police talked to this guy, he said he had never held or fired a gun before, but that he played cs a lot. And you can imagine what those video game hating govenors in the states did, they took this story and ran with it trying to make video games look bad.  Which i find revolting, i bet not ONE of those 60 year old guys ever ONCE played a video game, i mean sure, there are violent games out there, but there are the same amount, if not more, non-violent\\educational video games out there, so if you took a harsh action like banning video games, you'd be blocking off a lot of people from buying educational games.

i bet not ONE of those 60 year old guys ever ONCE played a video game

 

i bet none of them ever shot seven people in the head either.

What's this thread about again? I'm lost If we're talking about what guns are for:

• They destroy things
• They kill things
• Er...
• That's it.

Not that I'm against 'skeet'/game shooting mind, but I think you have problems if you own an automatic weapon.

Most auto's are illgeal, correct?

The only automatic firearm allowed is an automatic shotgun, but it must have a round limiter plug installed in it, limiting it to 6 shells instead of 9.

guns are a tool, just like any other tool, if you view it differently, you are in denile..

the method of using the tool may be debatable, but the fact that it a tool, is inarguable..

what everyone seems confused about is, why people use them as they do, the fact that they exist in the first place is a stupid line of thinking.. they exist, move on.. :rolleyes:

run the whole world thru a "mind-altering, local lobotomising s**theadedness shrinkng" ray and we might stand a chance.....

lookin better isnt it?

Doc B... :dodgy:

Lot to be said about both sides really

"Right to bear arms"

"Guns can kill"

Again, like Orph, I kinda see both sides. But I'm gonna have to fall on the Anti Gun side I'm afraid. Simply because I think it helped this country (UK) to ban Hand Guns over .22 Calibre (I think that was the Law). How? well I would have to guess that it has reduced Hand Gun shootings, I don't have the figures to hand so can't prove that, it's just a guess.

Violent Computer Games, I remember somewhere saying people who got into violent computer games often had shorter tempers, and were more prone to being aggresive, however, the study also showed that, it wasn't that effect that was the problem , rather, it was the way theydealt with it, so people who worked out the tension/anger by physical means, Boxing, Punch bag (Violent sports in other words) got angrier, easier, but those who worked out the tension/anger with excersise that didn't involve, contact/violence i.e swimming were fine.

This tells me, it's not necessarily playing computer games, rather the way you deal with your anger that drives people(Any age) to do stupid things. (They don't necessarily need to be angry at that time either)

IMNSHO.

 

Gav

i can see both sides but have to lean towards allowing guns..

if you ban them, only the honest will abide by the law, and criminals would retain them exclusively..

they don't call them criminals for being conscientious individuals you know..

if you ban them ya, the honest will not have them, but with noone buying them there will be no gun stores meaning there will be no legal shipments or manufaturing of firearms in/into the states, meaning they have to smuggle them, which means them taking a bigger risk, and a better chance of border patrol catching them and stoping them, soforth cutting off supplies of firearms.

Raid3n said:
if you ban them ya, the honest will not have them, but with noone buying them there will be no gun stores meaning there will be no legal shipments or manufaturing of firearms in/into the states, meaning they have to smuggle them, which means them taking a bigger risk, and a better chance of border patrol catching them and stoping them, soforth cutting off supplies of firearms.

and the moral of this story is?

someday they will run out?

geeze bud, get a grip on reality... coke is smuggled in by the metric ton every day, you think a 20 ounce pistol will cause anyone to notice.. :rolleyes:

At the end of the day, games are bad too though as kids should be playing outside and getting fit and healthy... it's strange though here in Hong Kong, hardly any fat people in sight despite them being born geeks :/

Orpheus said:

Raid3n said:
if you ban them ya, the honest will not have them, but with noone buying them there will be no gun stores meaning there will be no legal shipments or manufaturing of firearms in/into the states, meaning they have to smuggle them, which means them taking a bigger risk, and a better chance of border patrol catching them and stoping them, soforth cutting off supplies of firearms.

and the moral of this story is?

someday they will run out?

geeze bud, get a grip on reality... coke is smuggled in by the metric ton every day, you think a 20 ounce pistol will cause anyone to notice.. :rolleyes:

obviously you either missed the point or it went over your head. the point of what i said is that with a ban on guns, border security will increase to prevent the inflow of them. and in the process they may end up blocking other smuggling rings as well...hows that for a side effect

Raid3n said:

Orpheus said:

Raid3n said:
if you ban them ya, the honest will not have them, but with noone buying them there will be no gun stores meaning there will be no legal shipments or manufaturing of firearms in/into the states, meaning they have to smuggle them, which means them taking a bigger risk, and a better chance of border patrol catching them and stoping them, soforth cutting off supplies of firearms.

and the moral of this story is?

someday they will run out?

geeze bud, get a grip on reality... coke is smuggled in by the metric ton every day, you think a 20 ounce pistol will cause anyone to notice.. :rolleyes:

obviously you either missed the point or it went over your head. the point of what i said is that with a ban on guns, border security will increase to prevent the inflow of them. and in the process they may end up blocking other smuggling rings as well...hows that for a side effect

nods head sagely

you obviously haven't got a clue..

thats ok, most of the other gun control fanatics don't either..

my point, if you cannot stop the influx of something as massive as drugs, you will never stop the influx of a gun.. and its naive to think otherwise..

only honest people would abide by such a law, or make criminals out of them if they refused..

if a gun law were passed within the US, i would make it my duty to get one in spite... think on that.. i am betting the supposed other countries with laws banning guns, didn't remove the issue, it just made criminals out of the good people, who now hide them from the law..

unjust laws, never solve issues, only education will..

I don't support guns, nor do I sway with the side that says "If you ban guns you'll reduce gun crime/murder".

The fact is, if a criminal wants a gun, they are not going to go through the legal channels to get it anyway, it would defeat the object of operating within the underworld - just a tad. Of course, one could argue that if ordinary citizens who commit felonous acts with pistols/rifles etc (murder, assault) would probably resort to using a knife/club anyhow.

If you don't support ownership of guns, dont buy one. All you can hope for is a regulated ownership (ie licenses). As for guns in the UK? Handguns were banned AFAIK, most 9mm/standard sized bullet weapons were - carbine rifles (.303's) and shotguns are still available to the law abiding public. 

i would like to point to a time in US history as an example..

"PROHIBITION"

It did NOT work, it made criminals out of honest people..

i am not PRO or CON on alcohol either, but i accept the fact that its here to stay, and whining about it won't help..

you wanna make a dent in things, report drinking and driving, report individuals who blatantly say, i have a gun and i will shoot you.. this is the only effective way to control gun mis-use..

don't ban guns, ban the people who mis-use guns..

use education first, use the law as it is second.. people who threaten violence with guns, can be brought to justice, and the innocent gun, will remain..

Orpheus said:
use education first, use the law as it is second..

Amen to that... ignorance and stupidity breed crime and abuses of rights.

We need to stop agreeing on things Orph, no-one fights like we do!  Sigh... the good old days!

Orpheus said:

Raid3n said:

Orpheus said:

Raid3n said:
if you ban them ya, the honest will not have them, but with noone buying them there will be no gun stores meaning there will be no legal shipments or manufaturing of firearms in/into the states, meaning they have to smuggle them, which means them taking a bigger risk, and a better chance of border patrol catching them and stoping them, soforth cutting off supplies of firearms.

and the moral of this story is?

someday they will run out?

geeze bud, get a grip on reality... coke is smuggled in by the metric ton every day, you think a 20 ounce pistol will cause anyone to notice.. :rolleyes:

obviously you either missed the point or it went over your head. the point of what i said is that with a ban on guns, border security will increase to prevent the inflow of them. and in the process they may end up blocking other smuggling rings as well...hows that for a side effect

nods head sagely

you obviously haven't got a clue..

thats ok, most of the other gun control fanatics don't either..

my point, if you cannot stop the influx of something as massive as drugs, you will never stop the influx of a gun.. and its naive to think otherwise..

only honest people would abide by such a law, or make criminals out of them if they refused..

if a gun law were passed within the US, i would make it my duty to get one in spite... think on that.. i am betting the supposed other countries with laws banning guns, didn't remove the issue, it just made criminals out of the good people, who now hide them from the law..

unjust laws, never solve issues, only education will..

when did i say i was for gun control...1)i dont live in the states so why should i care 2) i hunt so it would prevent me from doing so...WHICH i might add, is a lot easier in canada, seeing as we dont have to wear those dumbass hunters oranage vests :razz:

Gwil said:
We need to stop agreeing on things Orph, no-one fights like we do!  Sigh... the good old days!

you know, we all argue less now, could it be you all are growing up.. dare i even contemplate it...

nah..

no i think what it is, is simply that we all have associated long enuff to realize that arguing isn't the best first responce...

secondly, we no longer assume evil intent as we once did, cause we know a lot more about whom we all are..

the learning process, is past.. we will still disagree, prolly more than not, but the anger reflex has been dulled..

tell you what, i am leaving for new jersey.. will be gone a few days.. find a topic we can differ on.. NO NOT GAYS, ASSHOLE :biggrin:  .. pick something less explosive..  like partial birth abortion or legalizing lobotomies :heee:

be good all

just a small observation, America seems to have a lot of "Wars on such and such" and I've yet to see any really be won. I.E. Drugs, Fat, Terrorism. Now I obviously know why it isn't easy to win something like those...but I get the feeling that the real issue lies within, as with any country, but it seems that everyone else is blamed. If there was no demand, why would people want crack cocaine in America? If there weren't so many lazy people with too much money to spend on junk food every day, maybe there wouldn't be so many obese people. Just a few thoughts. As for the current gun arguement (if there even really is one) Orph, I think you basically rewrote my original intention, but probably because you may have misinterpreted my statements...which weren't sided with anything other than the fact that there are too many stupid people out there.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0226493644/ref=lib_rd_next_3/104-5300268-3279937?v=glance&s=books&vi=reader&img=3#reader-link

A couple of sample pages from a book called:
More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun-Control Laws (Studies in Law and Economics (Chicago, Ill.).)
by John R., Jr. Lott

Gorbachev said:
 Orph, I think you basically rewrote my original intention, but probably because you may have misinterpreted my statements...

chock it up to the limitations of text communications bud..

i have been mis-quoted before, and done my share of doing it to others..

as long as everyone at least tries to remember the limits of text... we will all have long and fruitful relationships at snarkpit :smile:

I'd just like to point something out- theres this crazy little thing that can happen in ANY correlational study (like the relationship between playing violent games and its effect on violent behavior)- a reversal of effect.

The most popular way of looking at the topic is that playing violent games results in more violent actions (which I'm NOT saying is always true- just hear me out here). You could also flip that around and say that kids with violent tendencies are drawn to games/movies/TV that is more violent, reverse the direction of the effect.

SO who is to say that when an act is violent, that it is due to violent games? The person may just be naturally violent, and just happen to play a violent game.

Also, in regards to the blame that should be levied upon the parents- I don't think its fair to just assume that the parents should share in the blame. How many of you at some time lied to your parents? Mabye went out back and smoked a cigarette out back, or mabye hid pornography from them (I'm just being realistic here folks, agree or not). My point is that a parent simply cannot watch their child 24/7. Theres just no way to do it.

In todays society it is almost impossible for parents to be involved in every part of a childs life, as sad as that may be. If you want to place blame on someone for the kids bad behaviour, why not just blame the comany that the parents work for for taking time that could be spent monitoring their kids for drugs/guns?

You can blame whoever you want, but the bottom line is that these kids made their own (and at the sake of sounding redundant) independant decision (something that they have been doing for the last 12 years or so). Their parents SHOULD have intervened if they knew about what was going to happen, yes- but who is to say that they knew?

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. If there were no guns at all, there's always an alternative. Gangs would be in streets beatin each other with sticks and rocks =D

And about these kids... They were just disturbed to begin with. If they said that they were convinced by GTA that nobody would get hurt, they have a lot more serious issues than homicidal intent. But, then again... this is the same reason why i can't see why they could be tried (can never remember if it's spelled that way, heh) as adults. If these kids had enough sense to know right from wrong - to be tried as commiting a crime that they know was wrong - then you might as well give them the right to vote... I mean, have they only proven that they are adults after they go on a shooting rampage? heh... anyway, back to the subject, I grew up with these games, and I have never even layed a hand on a gun. It disturbs me to even think about doing it. I think that it's the fault of both the kids and their parents. As much time as kids spend in front of a TV and computer, nothing influences them more than their parents and close friends... and some kids are just born homicidal idiots, too -_-

Our violent society creates violent entertainment. Not vise versa! I mean, in a violent society, are you going to go buy a game where the object is to pet little bunnies and collect butterflies? NO lol