Personal Opinions Requested

OK, I am way past due for a new PC. I plan on building one soonish. However, being without internet for over 3 years now I am waaaaaay out of touch with the new technologies.

I truly don't have enough online time to research all the combination's available to me so to reduce the time involved on my end I am opening the discussion as to which combination's are best for the least monies involved.

Gimme some ideas guys, and why you favor them...

The new I7 looks sorta nice...

Thanx in advance.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Intel processors:

i7s are really nice. I have the 920 (discontinued) and I over clock it to 3.6 GHz. They work with triple channel memory. They had minimum of 8 cores on it (4 actual physical cores x 2 = 8 virtual cores through hyper threading).

i5s are the equivalent to high-end Core2Duos. The i3s are budget Core2Duos. I would say go with an i5 at least.

There are two new socket types out:

LGA 1156 - Works with i5s i3s.
LGA 1366 - Works with i7s, but will also work with i5s and i3s.

Obviously go with 1366 (the prices on mobos are negligible between 1366 and 1156).

Pick an i7. They're really nice, and they get a very high rating on Windows 7.

AMDs:

I dont mean to spark a war with Intel vs AMD, but I go with Intel 100%, their processors are just more powerful.

Motherboards I recommend sticking to ASUS, Intel, or Gigabyte. All three are very good quality. Go with ASUS if you want to over-clock and do gaming. Go with Intel if you want a workstation, and go with Gigabyte if you want to have a USB 3.0 built onto it (more on this later).

Memory depends upon which operating system you will be running (32 bit vs 64 bit). 32 Bit can only see up to 3.2 GBs of memory (it varies depending on distribution). 64 Bit theoretically can see 128GB of memory. And XP 64 bit edition blows, so you should go with Windows 7 64 bit.

If you want to stick to XP you should note: Support for it will be ending in ~1.5 years (no more updates/patches). Likewise hard drives are being re-designed with larger block sizes, and XP will actually run SLOWER on them.

Windows 7 is very stable. SO if you get a 64 bit edition of windows you will get beyond the 3.2 GB mark. As it is right now, most games are still only 32 bit, meaning they wont see beyond the 3.2 mark, so loading up memory to 24Gb isn't going to do much, however 6GB seems to be the sweet spot with amount of memory. It provides enough room for games to work in, as well as the operating system tasks to provide smooth game play.

6 gigs should be more than sufficient. Remember - i7s are in triple channel now, so you should buy in 3s. 2GB modules x 3 = 6GB.

So back to motherboards. You should look at a system that takes around 12GB max. The 24GB max motherboards really get expensive, and your paying for space you don't need.

Hard drives are pretty much the same. I would stick with Seagate (local to my area actually) or Western digital. As it stands I'm running two 300GB 10k RPM WD drives (Raptors) in RAID 0 (which makes a 600GB OS Drive), and the system performs very nicely without me having to drop 1000+$ on an Solid State Drive. Currently my hard drive(s) gets a 6.2 rating in windows 7 scoring system, and a single 10K drive will get 5.9 - likewise a 7200 RPM drive will get 5.9.

Beware though! Raid 0 has no fault protection, so if 1 drive goes kaput, its bye-bye all data (since your data is logically split in half over both drives). Since I have my actual data on a secondary drive (music, pics, maps, etc), I don't care if my OS dies. I can always re-install my OS/Programs on it. Likewise I have Ghost that makes shadow copies - which thinking of this now, is worthless, because Windows 7 actually has imaging service build into it now...

Graphics cards.... I dont know If I want to say to incite a war between nVidia and ATI. But here is my take and other people can chime in with their thoughts:

ATI: Best Bang for your buck. Unstable drivers.

nVidia: Shell out the $$ and you get a slightly faster card than ATI. Stable drivers.

www.newegg.com has the best prices. Even our shop (with access to MA Labs) has trouble competing with newegg.

Something that bothers me is ... you can't argue theoretical and maximum limits of hardware ... if someone is just gonna play some games with it.

Both companies, AMD and Intel, make chips that will play all the games you'd want. AMD, however, does it for a significantly lower price.

If you want to build a rig for the least amount money possible, while still having quality parts ... Intel isn't really an option.

It's easy to compare Phenom II X4 to i7 ... but in reality, the price range of the X4 is closer to high end i3 and middle range i5s. In which case, which one are you really going to choose? The Phenom will give you more bang for your buck, simple as that.

There's also very little noticeable features that are utilized in one manufacture over the other with CPUs ... honestly, just go with the one you can afford. The GPU is more important anyway! (Not to mention there's only about 2 games that even utilize anything above dual core properly!)

As for GPUs ... I'd say it's a matter of taste ... but this is actually a unique situation.

AMD: (ATi doesn't exist anymore and is being completely phased out) they're cheaper, and with raw numbers, perform better. Usually outperforming nvidia chips and using less power.

Nvidia: Has an extremely robust set of proprietary libraries that a MASSIVE amount of games use. They also have a much more robust multi-card setup than Crossfire. So many games utilize CUDA or PhysX, it's not even funny ... and doing those things on CPU (even if you had an 8 core blade server CPU) isn't going to cut it.

They also support 3D ... but that's not really something you're looking for, yes I'm aware.

So ... there's a noticeable trade off here. AMD has, so far, terrible drivers ... moderately cheaper chips ... less power consumption ... somewhat better performance in specific games. Nvidia has ... a ridiculous amount of libraries that only work on Nvidia cards, particularly good driver support (oddly enough their drivers work even better under linux) far better multi card support, and from benchmarks in realworld scenarios ... the latest nvidia cards mop the floor with AMD cards when scaling resolutions. They seem to perform MUCH better at higher resolutions than similar AMD chips ... downsides? They usually cost a little more (however the gap is very small, like $20) they use much more power (on the range of about 80W more idle ... but only about 10W more under full load) They run about 10 degrees hotter too ... (However you should be buying your own thermal paste taking the heat sync off and replacing the stock stuff, you'll get much better temperatures for very little work)

The AMD GPUs, of similar speeds and such, only get in the range of 5fps more on average, from what I've seen. Personally, things like PhysX sway my opinion ... they really add a lot to a game, especially FPS. And, a 2-5 fps boost is not even noticeable, personally I go with nVidia every time.

So, the question you have to ask yourself is ... do you want to build a rig for $700 range that can play Crysis nearly maxed at 40-50fps ... or do you want to build a rig for $1300 that can play Crysis nearly maxed at 40-50fps ...

That's pretty much the choice between CPU manufactures. You will NOT notice any large performance difference simply because you've got an Intel chip over an AMD one ... for all intensive purposes, you'll never know. (And lets be honest, you're going to be running Windows anyway, which is a slug on stilts in the longevity department)

Also, please don't choose some ridiculous CPU that you'll never utilize that's like $250-$350 ... just because you think it's "cool" ... there's just no point it's needless and wastes your money. Because you generally turn around and skimp on things like the GPU ... which should be the most expensive thing you're putting in the machine.

The CPU is not as important when playing games, they're all "good". And games don't even utilize dual core really, let alone quad core ... or 6 core. By the time it does get utilized the $300 processor you bought will be $80 and useless because you'll need to upgrade again ... the cost compared to gained performance and longevity just doesn't add up.

BE MODEST, you'll get the same perceived performance for an insanely lower amount and the only thing that's required is you resist bragging rights because you know how to spend more money than someone else.

Alright ... some other junk

RAM: lifetime warranty or nothing. Don't screw around with this. Research the manufacture's warranty page. Other than that, get the speed you need and the size you want. Again, specifically going after Corsair, for example, is just bragging nonsense bullshit ... look at the cheapest lifetime warrantied sticks.

GPU: No matter which you choose ... choose EVGA and make sure it's got a lifetime warranty on it. This doesn't mean for the lifetime you own it ... but the lifetime it's available which will be in the 4 or 5 year range ... which is better than 2 years! YES, they allow you to use your own cooling solutions too, it doesn't void the warranty (unless the cooling solution you modified ruined it of course)

HDD: Uh ... Seagate and Western Digital are pretty much the only people you want to deal with. Again, look at warranties. I never go under 5 years, personally. (Warranty length is usually a sign of confidence in the products quality ... unless the company is XFX ... don't buy from XFX) Lately it's seemed like Western Digital is the only real option. Sata 3.0 Gb/s is the smartest choice. 6 Gb/s is overkill and will get you a $300 motherboard. Not smart in the monies department.

MB: Choosing a manufacture is going to be tough ... you're not going to get a good warranty, they're 2 years max. Just make sure you don't get an Intel chipset, even if you douche out and get an Intel chip. They're slow. If you get an Nvidia GPU ... DO NOT GET AN AMD CHIPSET, you will have problems. and vice versa. I recommend getting a board with a chipset made by whoever is your GPU manufacture, i.e. AMD or Nvidia. Other than that ... I don't give a shit what you get ... be mindful of power requirements some boards don't go above 95W chips, for example. (Just check the manufactures page!)

DVD: not really mentioned yet ... but if you want a BluRay burner, they're reasonable in price. BluRay readers that are DVD burners ... seem to have disappeared ... and DVD burners are dirt cheap, get whatever you like. MAKE SURE IT'S GOT A SATA INTERFACE THOUGH. Don't get anything IDE.

Sound Card: Don't need it, built in sound rocks now. If you go for sound blaster you're not very smart. Built in sound chips suppose excellently high quality audio. And neither RealTek or VIA (unlike soundblaster) patent other people's game algorithms and charges their creators for their use! Please don't support them, they only hurt video games for personal gain!

Network: Built in, works great. Pretty standard.

Power Supply: This is another area, like the GPU, where your ass doesn't skimp. Don't go crazy with like a $200 one ... but don't cheap out. You want to look at efficiency (I'd recommend 90%+), modular cables (<3), and life span ... a nice 5 year warranty doesn't hurt either. Remember if this thing is faulty, it could fry everything in your system. Also, GET AS MANY 12V RAILS AS POSSIBLE. They are REQUIRED. To know the Wattage you need, read carefully about your video cards. The power they suggest is very accurate. NewEgg, specifically, also, has a Wattage calculator to help you out! $150 is about as high as I would, personally, go for a power supply. I wouldn't go below $80.

So an actual machine I'd suggest: $800 USD range: AMD Phenom II X4, whatever speed, 4GB of RAM (expandable of course based on the motherboard, most go up to 16GB ... but DDR3 4GB sticks are pricey) In the 1066MHz range, TWO Nvidia GeForce GTX460s in SLI (you will get more like 80fps in crysis with this and can play on above HD resolutions easily). And ... Oh. The motherboard needs to have a NVIDIA nForce 980a SLI chipset ... which means it'll be in the $140 range. The chipset right below this doesn't support full SLI speeds. This does dual 16X SLI. (both PCI-E slots will be going maximum speed, not one maximum the other half ... very important!)

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

The Gurus have spoken....

Also, don't forget the monitor!

I only ever buy Samsung monitors; their sturdy, bright enough and hardly develop any early dead pixels, I bought two 22" in May of 2007, and neither have gotten a dead pixel yet.

But it's worth mentioning I hear Dell make the best quality, just not the best pr$ce.

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Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202

/me bows deeply.
wipes tears of joy unobtrusively before anyone notices I cry easily now that I'm older

You guys rock, if nobodies told'ya in a while.
I will be sure to take stock in all your advices. Mind though, I can only build a machine about every 2-4 years so longevity is more of a priority than cost up to a point.

The only reason its been this long since I built my past machine was why bother with no internet? AND the fact that my brother scrapped his old machine and gave it to me. BTW its a dual-core 2080 @ 1.8ghz, 3 gigs ram and an nVidia 1gig 9800.

The danged card outruns the CPU and the games actually stutter some but oh well it was free excepting the vid card.

Thanx again guys. You definitely demonstrate why its a good to be a member here.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Riven, I swear by Samsung TVs. They're glorious and not too expensive. And their customer service is actually pretty good.

As for monitors ... I just pick whatever cheap piece of shit I can find

If I had the money ... Oh man ... I'd get one of those 30"+ monitors ... goes WAY above HD resolutions.

By the way, Orph-man, I was looking up some more info, SLI 460s actually out perform any single card that's out right now ... and on a beefed up crazy i7 system only use 470W on a full load. Which is nuts! Most games get about ... 200fps (NOT an exaggeration).I was just really impressed by it. They're also cold as hell. Like, 60C under full load, stock cooling and paste (It was an open case though).

Just remember ... the motherboard is the core of all expandability. You want to plan ahead in that respect (for instance, if you want 4GB of RAM and the board supports 16 total ... get a single 4GB stick, not 2 2GB sticks, even though it'll cost more ... because later, you can just add up to three more and max out the memory ... without wasting memory you already bought) You also want to plan AHEAD for your power supply ... not only don't skimp ... but get one that's about 200W more power than you currently need (no it doesn't waste it, it just has a higher capacity) ... therefore later ... if you add some more powerful components, you don't have to spend ANOTHER $100 on a new power supply.

The system I suggested comes out around $913 when everything is all said in done, that's 2 GPUs, CPU, RAM, MB, PWR, 2TB HDD ... missing DVD, CASE, MONITOR, MOUSE, and KB those are peripherals, they're really not something someone else can tell you what to get.

Also ... I don't know if you've noticed ... but newegg.com is your best option for parts. It's very rare that parts are cheaper anywhere else. Rates are flat unless yo're in Alaska, Hawaii, or Puerto Rico.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

The only thing I really have to say about i7s crono is that they rock!

In fact up to the last super computer, the world record for calculating the nth digit of pi was broken by a lonely machine with an i7 in it:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/man_takes_picalculating_record_supercomputer_core_i7_desktop

Then it was re-broken with a super-computer. But this is more than just theoretical limits, its proof!

Something that bothers me is ... you can't argue theoretical and maximum limits of hardware ... if someone is just gonna play some games with it.

But I agree with you that theoretical limits play little in gamming. Though I can make an argument that if Orph got an i7 he could hold off longer in upgrading the CPU, than over an i5.

How AMD stacks up to intel? Thats your expertise there Crono.

MB: Choosing a manufacture is going to be tough ... you're not going to get a good warranty, they're 2 years max.

Intel has 3 year warranty (I know they do, the job I work for is an intel partner, we work with them a lot). Even the OEM boards. ASUS I believe has 3 year warranties as well, but don't hold me to that.

Edit:

6 Gb/s is overkill and will get you a $300 motherboard. Not smart in the monies department.

Agreed. As it stands not even SSDs make use of the 6Gb/s.

RAM: lifetime warranty or nothing.

Agreed. Here are the ones I suggest: Super-talent (Local here too!), and Kingston. I'm sure there is more though, but these are the ones I deal with. Generally they don't ask questions, and they just accept your answer: "memtest 86+ failed".

Actually, as I was looking around, it looks like some RAM modules don't play nice with certain CPUs ... so you REALLY want to go look at the manufacture's page (NEWEGG MAKES THIS EASY :D) and look up the CPU list, if they got it.

My point on the CPUs is ... choosing an i7 is going to force you to build a much more expensive machine than you'd need to do what you want to do.

EVEN if the chip would, technically last longer (no proof of that, really) it would still be cheaper to buy an AMD chip now ... an another one in a couple years, than it would be to build an i7 rig.

And what I was saying is ... games have a bit of a maximum point of performance ... and both processors achieve it. So ... unless you're going to, personally, use the extra horsepower/features ... what's the point of spending that money!? There is none besides pride or bragging rights. Software can only perform SO well. Most games are VERY static, they do not have very scalable engines (they can be configured scalable, but once the developer chooses a goal configuration, that's it. There's some exceptions, but not many engines just do it on their own)

That's all I'm saying ... I mean, we're talking like ... $950-$1100 now ... then two years from now another $200, which is $1300 total ... which is STILL below the cost required for an i7 rig.

Preference is fine ... and if someone is dead set on Intel or whatever, that's fine ... that's their thing ... but I'm talking about it from a realistic perspective ... get what you need, not what you want. You save a lot of money that way.

SSD's limitation is actually fundamental. It has nothing to do with the SSD it self, but rather how it's used and the hardware interface. They should NOT be used over SATA! But, that's the only way you can get them. Not to mention Windows, in particular, treats them as any other magnetic disc ... and it just so happens that writing practices that optimize speed for cylinders doesn't apply at all to flash memory. But, they do it anyway. As a result, performance drops off. It's not a permanent thing ... but it is unavoidable ... and I really wouldn't suggest even looking at them until this changes.

Omega: the Asus board I've been personally looking at only has 2 years. :\

Warranty length seems to no longer be company global. For instance, all EVGA cards used to be lifetime warranties ... they're not now, only the "higher end" versions of various cards are, the others are 2 year! and that's not acceptable. Therefore you have to pay attention to this. Some board model might be 3 years ... and another might be 1 year ... So, it's a bit more technical than before ...

But there is one thing that's absolutely certain more now than any time before ... You're much more protected by your purchase than before. More parts have lifetime warranties and most warranties (MAKE SURE YOU LOOK UP THE TERMS) don't even require shipping costs from you to replace something! It's become very encouraging.

The only downside is they can be misleading sometimes. For instance XFX video cards have lifetime warranties, almost always ... but you'll almost definitely have to use it during the life of the card. They have horrible cooling solutions.

Also ... sometimes it actually pays to shell out for a warranty extension from the people you're buying it from, on New Egg, depending on the device it could be pretty cheap ... like $6 ... and if that's the case ... it's a no brainer, do it. Because for a year after the manufacture warranty has ended if something (covered under normal warranty) happens to it, the retailer will give you a new one ... simple as that. It's handy.

One last randomly wall of text quick note: It seems like if you want to use S/PDIF audio through the HDMI port on most video cards ... the card does NOT actually come with this cable (neither does the board it seems) and it might be something you need to find on your own ... if you're going to use it. (Requires an HD Audio receiver that accepts HDMI processing, not just passthrough)

I hope you understand what I'm talking about the intel vs amd thing ... it's not like I have a vendetta against intel ... just their prices.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

sup Orpheus... I haven't been around lately, how you been?

Dietz said:
sup Orpheus... I haven't been around lately, how you been?

Master Dietz, hows it going down n sunny Austin these days for you?
Actually, I was in Belton Last week visiting family and its chilly there. Odd that really for this time of year.

I haven't been here all that much over the past 3.5 years, but if you were to ask most of the new guys, that's prolly way more often than they'd like. shrugs

Anywho's hope to see more of'ya. Gimme a call if you wanna gab sometime. #'s in my profile.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Good news, better news.
OK guys, sometime between now and January I'll be getting my new PC.

1st off, note that this machine is already built so PLEASE don't point out that its overkill in some areas. Just attribute it to my brothers over zealous buying trends.

2ndly, although its second hand, this is a very big gaming machine that has never once played a game so even though its nearly a year old, its practically brand new.

Lastly, I am getting it cheap. ( When I stated this thread, wasn't even aware that he was even considering selling his PC.. Must be meant to be I guess )

Its a quad core 9550 @ 2.83 ghz.
MS-7512 mainboard.
1000 watts power. Mid-tower.
1 Tb Hitachi hard drive with 15 meg cache.
8 gigs Mushkin PC2 6400 DDR2 ram.
AMD 4800 series PCI-e 512 megs ram card.
1 DVD burner.
1 blue ray DVD burner.
Ram coolers.
Hard drive coolers.
Card readers.
and other stuff I cannot recall at present.
Mostly I cannot even state how freaking exciting I am.. Plus I am a bit embarrassed to say how much I will be paying, but I promise its a bargain.

Christmas will be wowzers this year.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

OK Guru Masters I have some questions, and please don't laugh.
This mainboard on the new PC seems designed for AMD video cards. I could be mistaken but that's how I am seeing it. Is this true?

2nd, assuming it is true, do I have to stick to AMD cards or can I use nVidia too?

Last, if it needs AMD cards, why does it not use AMD processors instead of intel?

I am so confused...

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Aw Core 2 Extreme and a "4800" Radeon ... You better make sure it isn't below 4850! ... I hope you aren't paying more than ~$700 (max) on this machine ... if you are ... it'd be more worth it to build your own (For a similar price you'd be able to build something that could blow that out of the water AND be more upgradable thus last longer. And it seems like you're considering purchasing a new video card in addition...).

The chipset on the board is "Intel® P45+ICH10R" which is neither AMD nor nVidia built ... so yeah you can use either (you could use either anyway they just don't play nice but they'd "work") Single PCI-E slot ... so you're stuck with single card solutions only. DDR2 memory so you better max it out soon ...

Why did he choose an AMD GPU? Because everyone was ranting and raving about their performance in a handful of games and the crazy amount of bandwidth on the cards ... downside? They don't really perform that much better. And they poses NONE of the added nVidia specifics you probably want.

Again if you're paying more than $700 ... you shouldn't do it. While it would be around $850 to build the machine I'm talking about ... you're sacrificing quite a bit in the trade off. Namely ... you won't be able to upgrade the computer ... the CPUs, as it stands, are still stupidly expensive and will most likely continue to be until they're off the shelves ... so you can't really upgrade that (the machine I pieced together can be upgradable to a 6 core CPU in a socket that will be around in a couple years) Memory on that machine is DDR2 ... DDR3 is the new standard and is quite commonplace already and even cheaper in some cases. (It's also a lot faster)
GPU is probably on the short side of longevity. Even if it IS a 4850, which is a decent card, it's only 512MB of memory, which ... even in a game like Crysis is going to chug (and other games are approaching its levels). Even the HDD I pieced in has a larger cache ...

Not to mention ... you're SOL on this machine ... even if he filled out all the warranty information for the parts ... they don't apply to a second owner. If something breaks ... that's it you have to either fix it yourself or replace it.

These are the reasons why I'm saying no more than $700 ... because you're sacrificing a lot to make the deal. You won't have any of the liberties you'd have by buying the parts yourself and thus, it is not worth it. The only UPSIDE I can think of is ... if you're paying something like ... $300 that's a steal ... and you (hopefully) don't have to pay for a new Windows license (You have to have a 64-bit OS and XP 64-bit is windows 2003 with a hacked together wrapper ... don't use it) And you would most likely (don't know your situation) have to buy a new windows license ($99 - $150 in 7 land)

Anyway ... I hope that answered all your questions. If you want me to email you some lists, I can ... just PM me your email.

Update: with some tinkering I got it down to $751. As a result I'd say you shouldn't pay more than at least $100 less than it'd cost to build a new one.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Crono said:
Single PCI-E slot ... so you're stuck with single card solutions only. DDR2 memory so you better max it out soon ...

I am almost sure its crossfire ready and has two slots. Also didn't someone mention that anything over 6 gigs of ram was currently overkill?

The reason I was looking at video cards wasn't to buy a new one, but to see my future options. I always look that up first since assuming any pc last any length of time it is most likely your first upgrade consideration.

Secondly, even though I am not really partial to one card company, I detest being restricted to one only. I tend to purchase whats on sale with the best guts inside it. This year nVidia or next year ATI.. As such it looked like since it was stressing crossfire it was built for AMD.

Next, a person should realistically consider oneself "screwed" if they are done so in advance of an action. Computers are a fickle thing and thinking one may break isn't conducive with a restful nights sleep. Computers break. I know your point was to stress warranty items but to me its no biggy. I have lost half of my machines due to wear and tear and never bothered filling out even one warranty card. That's stupid yes but its true none the less.

As for your assessment of the price, I fall within that bracket you mentioned. Considering that you are a bit hard on pc evaluating I consider myself lucky to be so and as such am even more hopeful about this machine.

As to the card again, I really dunno which card it has. Neither does he. He bought the machine on a whim and realistically it was out of his conscience thoughts a week after it got home. He cares nothing for computers what so ever. I still just look at him when he shrugs at me for asking him whats inside the case. He has zero idea. I had him download SiSoft just to get me some idea of the hardware. The damned program only gave me generalities on some things. Most notably the vid card.

Still though I have to be positive about this.
1. This machine is way more powerful than anything I have ever touched or played with.
2. I will be using it almost exclusively for games "OFFLINE" since my options for internet are still obscenely in the future.
3. The machine is a year old in time, but less than a month old in use. Could it break? Sure. I doubt it but if it does... Oh well.

Lastly, due to personal reasons I am buying it as a favor to him. He needs the cash and I want the machine for the price he stated. We will both be happy at the end.

Adam, I believe you when you say I can do better. I also believe that adding up all the possible negatives you mentioned still don't amount to a deterrent in my case cause they fall within my cushion of comfort.

The bottom line is its a dream machine just setting there doing absolutely nothing. He bought it for no good reason. He had it assembled with no knowledge of what to put inside it. He over did some, he slacked on others.

Finally, an this to me is most important. If it last only two years then I will have out grown it anyway since I never, ever rebuild a machine. Because of where I live and my frugal tendencies, I never run an air conditioner. My computers get full of dust and animal hair. (we have three cats who simply will not stay off my desk) After 2 years the machine simply isn't worth the hassle. I give them all away.
You may not remember but when I had the net I used to rebuild PC's for children for Christmas. Although I don't have net I still donate my old machines to someone needy. Dust and cat hair and all.

Thanx for your advice and the time donation Adam.
I'll make yo a deal. If we're still here 2 years from now I'll mail you the monies necessary to build the machine of your choice. (within reason) I usually earmark 1000 or less for my new toy. We'll see if you can do it then OK?

Thanx again bud.
XXXOOOXXX

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Oh shit. It does only support Crossfire and not SLI :O

Some FYI:
It looks like both slots get knocked down to x8 in dual card mode though.

Checking some benchmarks ... it looks like Crossfire in a lot of games doesn't offer that much of a boost. Like 10fps in Crysis, for example. (Most SLI setups I've seen get like 20 to 30 more, which does turn out to be 80% or so)

Orph You're going to run into one very large issue: DRM. Almost all games required online activation (and deactivation). Which happens when you install them and in some cases when you play them. Games like StarCraft 2, Assassin's Creed 2, and Splinter Cell Conviction require CONSTANT internet access otherwise the games will not let you play.

Publishers are getting touchy about piracy and lashing out in bizarre ways. Blizzard is now suing people for making cheats for SC2 single player (no joke) And instead of making it an offline affair that checks legitimacy of achievements when you sign on and then rewards you ... it's an environment of non-editing outside the lines of their tools.

Good luck with that.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Contrary to popular belief I buy all my games. Sadly most I want to buy are internet activated so I don't even bother getting them. This anti-piracy thing they have going now blows chunks I promise.

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The best things in life, aren't things.