dod_calais

the name is temporary until i think of a better one - because this looks nothing like calais, and i know people will complain about that :razz:

anyways, you can check it out and tell me what you think, it still needs lots of work. i haven't added any detail yet, i want to finish the entire map (without detail) first before i add in the details. im looking for some good wallpaper textures and some power lines, so if you know of any let me know. you can view the pictures by going to the map.

PS: this will be my first complete map! :biggrin:

looks ok so far but where is the lighting? Everything seems kinda washed out because its all evenly lit. In the second pic there should be some kind of transition between the grass and the street. In the third pic I'm guessing thats where you need the wallpaper? That one seems really wierd. In the fifth pic The building in the distance could use a trim of some kind at the top. Oh yea you can find a powerline texture (at least thats what it looked like to me) in the maggot1-2.wad which can be found at the wadfather. Also the skybox looks like a storm is approaching yet the map has nothing else to suggest this is the case. Some windy sound fx and long shadows could convey this well.

i just changed some of the pictures, so im guessing you meant http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/old/calais0011.jpg that one :razz: ill fix that. yes, i was referring to that house because it looks horrible with that same wallpaper throughout the whole thing. in the fifth picture, the buildings in the background aren't done yet (anything with that texture that has the wood squares and X's hasn't been worked on at all, i just put those there initally so i could form the basic streets and such). i appreciate your pointers and i will work on those. about the lighting, i dont really know how to do good lighting because i haven't done it much. i agree, the map looks odd with the current lighting, but i dont know how to fix it really..

I think the streets are too wide and open, you stand no chance going along them against nearly any weapon. There needs to be stuff like sidewalks, cars, lampposts, powerpoles and other details to provide cover. Look at a picture of a european town around the late '30s and use some ideas from that, such as a cafe front with a little porch or something.

editing outdoor lighting is actually really easy to do with a light_environment entity. The pitch ranges from -90 (straight down) to 90 (straight up). I think something around -30 would look good here. Also you can mess with the brightness/color and angle that the light is coming from.

i have said like 500 times that i haven't added details, but everyone always misses it. lol. all of that will be added, dont worry :razz: i guess i should specify more on what im wanting help with now.. lighting, building design, overall layout.

an overview can be found here: http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/calais_overview.jpg

i think its at -30 right now :o

EDIT: nevermind its at 30, not -30. and what does diffuse brightness do?

i just added a bunch of stuff, so ill upload some screens tomorrow after it compiles (takes like 1 1/2 hrs now...) - i think i went a little overboard on the fountain, hehe. anyways, i also went over the max texture size (i had it set at 8mb) so i think i need to reduce them or something, i dunno what to do :\

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/wtf/ - for some reason there is water covering the entire level ;\

Make it brighter and more blue.

And discover the beauty of the edit button.

all of those posts are like 8 hrs apart and what do you mean brighter and more blue? its not supposed to have water, it just does

read my reply on this page

it partially applies to you as well..

screen shots above 100k are asking to much.. above 200k should be grounds for disqualification, above 300k and the member should be skinned alive.

please try to keep them between 60-100k..

/me leaves before i say something mean.

screenshots are smaller in size now, just for you orph :wink:

[color=#bed7af]These areas need more detail or need to be changed, ideas would be appreciated.

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[/color]http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/july_6/calais0007.jpg
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/july_6/calais0009.jpg
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/july_6/calais0010.jpg
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/july_6/calais0013.jpg
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/july_6/calais0012.jpg[color=#bed7af]

r_speed problem areas.

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[/color]http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/july_6/calais0011.jpg (maybe)
[color=#ffffff]http[color=#bed7af]://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/july_6/calais0014.jpg[/color] - can't figure out a way to make the house look broken up without lots of polys..

errors.

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[/color]http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/july_6/calais0015.jpg[color=#bed7af] - dunno why it does that, the brush's are aligned.. i will probably end up taking out these windows and replacing them with boring ones because of the r_speeds...

other pictures

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[/color]http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/july_6/calais0008.jpg
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/july_6/calais0006.jpg
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/july_6/calais0005.jpg
http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/july_6/calais0004.jpg

some areas have already been fixed, ill update again tomorrow once i finish properly doing the skybox.

4. The wall on the right hand side is too flat and boring. Maybe reduce
its height and put some bushes along the top, with a couple of trees
popping up behind it or something?

5. I don't really know what to say to this one, its a bit boring but
looks ok. Could you afford to allow visibility to inside the house? If
the interior is simple and there isn't much behind you, then it could
be cool to have this building in ruins in order to provide potential
for detail.

6. You need a window frame on this, just a thin wooden frame would suffice.

7. More door / window frames needed! Also may wanna break up those tall
buildings a little, even with just a trim around them at roughly middle
height, and then returning to the wall afterwards. Perhaps a couple
drainpipes running down the wall or something for more detail?

8. I think rather than that foliage, you'd be better off with a worn
sort of path through the grass leading wherever you can go through that
section.

9. You REALLY ought to reduce the size of those wooden supports - they're
massive! Also align the wood to match the direction of the supports,
particularly on the angled bit.

10. More frames needed, and that block that the tree is sat on needs
physical edges rather than just textured ones. At the moment its just
pure grass on the top, it should have some wood at the top of the edges.

11. My favourite area without a doubt. I really like the view toward
the end of the road, with the tall bushes popping out from behind that
house with the interesting upper floor protrusion - good work. I feel
you could use more variation on the ground texturing though - I think
you are using two different textures for the road and pavement, but
they look very very similar. You'd possible be better aiming for a
little more obvious contrast in these textures, might help add more
depth.

12. That big wide EMPTY road on the right needs stuff, desperately.
There is any number of things you could add really - telephone poles,
street lights, trees, plant boxes, or just the DoD favourite - some
rubble!

13. Hmm, not too sure how you can rectify this, just a layout problem
really. I guess the only fix is to change your layout, as there is no
way you can stop the engine rendering whats in this building when you
can see right into it like that.

14. Ouch! Not sure what to suggest to lower those, but those holes in
the wall look pretty awful. The problem is you've tried to make it look
like the holes are where bricks have fallen out, but the shapes you
have cut out don't match the brick texture (or at least they may do,
but all the bricks seem to have fallen out in handy big blocks!). You'd
be better off just making the traditional angled sections as found in
most DoD maps, it looks much better and uses less w_poly.

15. Dodgy lighting artifacts, unlucky. You running with full rad
settings? Use "-smooth 80" and "-bounce 3" (or a similar figure), as
that might help. Chances are it won't though, its quite common to get
some differences in lighting where face splitting is occuring and
things.

siron said:
screenshots are smaller in size now, just for you orph :wink:

i have 1.5 DSL.. you did it for the pit :smile:

4. yeah, i haven't added anything on the outside edges anywhere yet, planning on it though. you read my mind :razz:

5. you can go inside the house, there is hay and some cows chomping on grass. im thinking i might add a light in there, and some crates on the outside.

6. ill fix that :razz:

7. yeah, i didn't really know what to do with those buildings, but i have an idea for the one on the left. im going to make it look like there is an open walkway towards the top with fancy arches, kinda hard to explain i, i guess you'll just have to see it when its done :razz: Ill look into adding drainpipes/fancier architecture.

8. hmm, ill see if i can find some textures for that. i already removed the grass i dont think it looked very good.

9. already fixed that, noticed it after compile :smile:

10. i've already done stuff to this area, so maybe you should look at it again after next compile.

11. my favorite too, i love that main street. it will look much better with crates, water in the water fountain, and numorous other details. ill look into new pavement textures.

12. yes, my thoughts exactly. i think im going to add telephone wires and maybe some rubble/a crater.

13. maybe i should put up an arch? i dont know.

14. yes, it was a poor attempt. i fixed some of it, and im still working on it.

15. yeah i know, it sucks, i liked how that looked. ill have to play around with it :\

thanks so much for your criticisms, you've been the most help so far! Can't wait for the next compile and more wisdom :smile:

Post a beta version next time as opposed to just screens, should help
people give more helpful feedback :smile: Glad my comments were of use!

im still working on the axis spawn, as soon as its done i will post a beta :razz:

for the pic with the fountain and the high r_speeds you could maybe cut them with a large tank made out of world brushes if it was simple enough and placed right. Not sure if thats the look your going for in this map tho. It's turning out pretty nice by the way.

Tanks in present DoD made out of world brushes looks really, really tacky. They belong in 1.3b or less. Use a simple model tank if need be.

ill try sticking a tank there.. we will see what it does :razz:

and thanks jfry :wink:

Well I only really suggested a tank as something to use as a visblocker (As far as I know models don't block vis). As an afterthought a somewhat upturned tank (possibly sunken into a mortar crater or something) could work even better. Although to tell you the truth I like the 'clean' look of this map. With all the destroyed city dod maps out there they kinda make you feel like you missed the REAL battle.

yeah, i was playing around with a tank and it looked funny. hehe. but what is something i can put up instead? it does need something there.. crates cant fill up the entire map :smile:

Warning: === LEAK in hull 0 ===
Entity env_model @ (-1264, -64, 241)
Error:
A LEAK is a hole in the map, where the inside of it is exposed to the
(unwanted) outside region. The entity listed in the error is just a helpful
indication of where the beginning of the leak pointfile starts, so the
beginning of the line can be quickly found and traced to until reaching the
outside. Unless this entity is accidentally on the outside of the map, it
probably should not be deleted. Some complex rotating objects entities need
their origins outside the map. To deal with these, just enclose the origin
brush with a solid world brush

Leak pointfile generated

its pointing to a building that is in the middle of the map, not extending out the top, and is well below the top.

EDIT: finally found it :

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/july_8/ - new screens, this map has major r_speed problems that i will have to fix someday. also the null texture i used didn't show up as null, it showed up as it looked in worldcraft :\

The buildings look a bit blocky- try picking something up from this new tutorial :smile:

Are you compiling with Merl's compile tools (MHLT) or others based on
them? Otherwise the null texture probably won't work, though I'm not
entirely sure on what compile tools brought in null support.

All in all the new screenshots look like improvements, so good job, but the r_speeds do seem excessive in parts :sad:

excessive? look at the epoly's! they are super super high! i dont know what to do about it :\

Whoa, didn't even notice them! What to do about them? Stop using so
many models would be my best guess :biggrin: Sorry I'm not of much use here,
just try not to put so many models around in areas that can be seen.
For instance, if you have a house with lots of models inside, and that
house has a window looking onto the street, chances are from anywhere
on the street those models will be rendered. Make sure that detailed
rooms inside the building aren't in the line of sight of the windows,
for example, and this should help.

none of the buildings on that street have models (except lights) which aren't very many models :/ the whole map has a high epoly count, but its only since the latest compile (where i mainly fixed the skybox, before i just had a giant cube around it, now it fits the level)

-oh and i compile with ZHLT and the batch compiler.

actually i think a lot of the problem is from the house near the axis side of the map.. hold on ill get the picture.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/july_8/calais0021.jpg - that one. but it looks so good with the models, how would i make them not render by looking from the outside?

Thats the main picture I was referring to when I mentioned about models
inside buildings being rendered due to window views. Is there any way
you could have a bland corridor running along the inside of the
windows, and then this corridor turns off at the ends into your
detailed rooms? This could be one way in which to stop the outside of
the building being given a view to the inside. I guess you just need to
brush up on the theory of vis blocking really, or go and study up on
the use of hint brushes.

meh :sad:

By the way, a properly proportioned tank would never be big enough to be a VIS blocker, it would be a sight-line blocker, but not VIS.

yeah, i also noticed that while i was messing around. im gonna do a gl_wireframe run around and post up some screenies.

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/wireframe/

theres the shots. the r_speeds and wpoly/epoly stuff wouldn't show up for some reason, just look at the fps i guess. a few things i would like to point out.

in front of allied flag 1, shot 1: http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/wireframe/calais0002.jpg

moved forward a little: http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/wireframe/calais0003.jpg

a little more: http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/wireframe/calais0004.jpg

see how it cuts down as i get closer? maybe i should put a roof or something on there...

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/wireframe/calais0005.jpg now you see it, http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/wireframe/calais0006.jpg now you dont (moved over like 5 feet).

http://trash.dork.cx/maps/dod_calais/wireframe/calais0009.jpg i can already see im going to have a problem with the axis first flag, even though i haven't done anything there yet.

If you want the r_speeds in developer mode in Steam to show up, be sure to set your minimap off. Then it will show up correctly. (It shows up fine in your console all the time though.)

weird, thanks for the tip! :razz:

Gorbachev said:
By the way, a properly proportioned tank would never be big enough to be a VIS blocker, it would be a sight-line blocker, but not VIS.

I'm not sure I understand the difference.. at least in terms of r_speeds. Are you saying a tank won't reduce r's? Obviously not as good as a proper (ie no gaps) visblocker, but I figured it would bring them down as long you are at ground level. Then again I suppose they would end up raising them even higher if you were at a window overlooking the whole scene.. BLah I'm confused! /derail