3d card question

I've been thinking about my computer and it's possible inability to play HL2 (or Doom3 for that matter, but I'm thinking that's not going to happen). I've got a p4 1.7Ghz and 512 megs ram, so I'll be in the middle range for HL2. However, I have a GeForce2Go, which uses AGP 4X and has 32 megs onboard memory. It sucks, but whatever, I had no choice in the matter. All of the minimum specs I have found for HL2 say that a directX 7 compatible 3d card is required, and I am having a hell of a time figuring out if this card can handle directX 7. I could upgrade, but since I use a laptop that'd require buying a whole new desktop computer, which I'd rather avoid doing.

The last games I've bought are Morrowind and BF1942, and those ran fine and like crap respectively, while the last demos I've bothered with were Halo, Tron 2.0, and UT2004, which all ran at least. At this point all I want is for HL2 to run, I don't care about how pretty it'll look.

for anyone who may be interested:

HL2 System Requirements
Min:
1.2 GHz Processor
256MB RAM
DirectX 7 graphics card
Windows 2000/XP/ME/98
Mouse
Keyboard

Preferred:
2.4 GHz Processor
512MB RAM
DirectX 9 graphics card
Windows 2000/XP
Mouse
Keyboard

Hmmm........how much have you got to spend on a graphics card? I would reccomend a radeon 9600xt/pro, it costs about ?90-?100 [ you do the translation].

[edit] my bad, i thought you were asking which graphics card you should buy.

I'm certainly no video card expert but I'm pretty sure it'll run. I've got a 16mb Nvidia Riva TNT and it is running directX 9.0. Not sure about newer OS's but in windows 98 you can click on start/run and type in 'dxdiag' and it'll tell you what version of directX you have.

no no, I know I have directX 9 installed, but that doesn't matter if my card can't handle it's advanced features. A directX 7 compatible card can run all the features of directX 7, and I want to know if my card is directX 7 compatible. I'm guessing its directX 6...

And I know what card I'd buy, the one that would come with my new computer should it come to that :razz:

Can't remember if the GF2go is DX6 or DX7. The GPU in some newer laptops can be upgraded and if you could get a GF4go then this is DX7 compatible and should run HL2.

Apparently they're going to release some "new" HL2 specs "soon" (unless they're already out? says my PC Gamer magazine) so wait for those and see what they say, before buying...

Yak, speaking from personal opinion and experience, you'll most likely just have to upgrade your video card and be able to play Doom 3 and HL2 on fairly high settings.

I know what the specs say, but frankly they're wrong. Since they don't test the game on every possibly configuration.

My system to many games is classified as a "low-medium" end system, yet I can run every game that is currently out on their highest settings with no problems.
My specs are not much higher then yours, except for the video card, which is now almost 2 years old.

Specs from game companies is not a real indication of what system you'll need, they're always overshot.

And ... on a (as Orph would say) taboo copy of D3 it runs beautifully. :smile:

I've got: Athlon which runs at about 1.9-2.0 ghz (don't really focus on CPU speed when considering games, since it mostly effects FPS. Unless the games you play drop to noticeably laggy levels, like 12 fps, then a new cpu might be in order ... but then again, some games just lag cough Moh cough)
Also, your cache sizes matter too, as for your bus speeds.

512 Mb ram (400)
GeForce 4 Ti4200 (MSI if you were wondering)
My board just has a VIA KT400A chipset (shut up, Jeff ) and as many times as I've heard arguments against it being helpful, an 8X agp port.

But, honestly, the thing that will boost performance the most is your video card (obviously), after that, memory sizes/speeds, so on and so forth.

Sadly, right now graphics cards are in an 'in between' phase. Which means you'll get screwed up the ass if you buy a card right now. Wait until like September (at the earliest) to go card shopping. Other then that, if you find a cheap deal for a new p4 (we're talking 40 - 50 bucks), go for it, it wont hurt, but isn't needed.

Mixing all this together, you'll probably suffer long load times, and fairly smooth gameplay on anything (it usually gets smoother the longer and more often you play)

Hope that all helps.

[EDIT]
HL2 will run at like the lowest setting on your computer, simply because of your video card. (I'm sure it can go even lower)

How well, I have no idea. But you have a while until you have to make a decision :smile:
(September 1^st my ass, EBgames!)
[/EDIT]

Yak_Fighter said:
I've been thinking about my computer and it's possible inability to play HL2 (or Doom3 for that matter, but I'm thinking that's not going to happen). I've got a p4 1.7Ghz and 512 megs ram, so I'll be in the middle range for HL2. However, I have a GeForce2Go, which uses AGP 4X and has 32 megs onboard memory. It sucks, but whatever, I had no choice in the matter. All of the minimum specs I have found for HL2 say that a directX 7 compatible 3d card is required, and I am having a hell of a time figuring out if this card can handle directX 7. I could upgrade, but since I use a laptop that'd require buying a whole new desktop computer, which I'd rather avoid doing.

At the nvidia site for the gf2, the spec sheet is there at the bottom left corner, direct link. Anyway, it supports "Directx 7 and lower" to quote. So yes, it is DX7.

Reccomended computer stats would be somethign my dad would know but --

Half-Life2 requries directX9, which most of us probably have\can get -- the card in my computer can handle that, but not HL2's use of X9. Because it uses super shadow shading, and even the most powerful card in your computer now can't handle it. You have to upgrade to "the next generation" of cards to be able to take a2 to full tilt.

Crono, whats wrong with having a via chipset? I have one on my asus a7v8x-x mobo, i've had it for about half a year and had no probs.
Well, if this is a thread to post yours specs:

AMD 2500+, GF4 MX440 64mb[ OC'ed], 512 PC2700 ram and a new dvd drive :biggrin:

AMD 2500+, GF4 MX440 64mb[ OC'ed], 512 PC2700 ram and a new dvd drive :biggrin:

Your kidding... lol.. Thats the same as me, 'cept I always had the DVD drive

Wild Card said:

AMD 2500+, GF4 MX440 64mb[ OC'ed], 512 PC2700 ram and a new dvd drive :biggrin:

Your kidding... lol.. Thats the same as me, 'cept I always had the DVD drive

:biggrin: no kiddin, just recently OC'ed my GF4, and i got the dvd drive about a month ago.

Nothing, sloth, You obviously didn't read what I wrote properly.

Jeff doesn't like VIA, thus my joking remark. I have no problem with VIA, personally. (Not to mention, its a real challenge to find a AMD board, that is fairly cheap without a VIA chipset. You can find the occasional nvidia chipset board, but, they're usually more expensive.)

G.B, what are you blathering about?
That's simply not true. and the name for the shading renders they use are the pixel shader registers 2.0 and Vertex shaders (the current generation of cards).

At all the E3 showings Valve showed HL2 with a 9800XT or something like that, and that's the current generation so, what are you talking about?
If you saw this somewhere, like, you're quoting valve or something like that, give us a link, other then that, I highly doubt it, since you can turn shadows off, the game will "run" on the lowest of low machines.

fraggard said:
At the nvidia site for the gf2, the spec sheet is there at the bottom left corner, direct link. Anyway, it supports "Directx 7 and lower" to quote. So yes, it is DX7.

thanks fraggard, you made my day :biggrin:

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Reccomended computer stats would be somethign my dad would know but --

Half-Life2 requries directX9, which most of us probably have\can get -- the card in my computer can handle that, but not HL2's use of X9. Because it uses super shadow shading, and even the most powerful card in your computer now can't handle it. You have to upgrade to "the next generation" of cards to be able to take a2 to full tilt.

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The source engine isn't pulling any doom3 lighting crap, so directx 9 isn't required. obviously to get the best graphical performance it is, but to just run HL2 no.

FYI the specs I was going on were apparently posted by Gabe on some hl2 fansite, so I would be led to believe that they are close enough to the mark.

[edit]oops... and here i thought we could delete posts...

Ahhhh, okies then crono gives evils to jeff You saying my Mobo is sh*t!

/jking :wink:

directx 9 isn't required

Yes it is.
You just don't need a DX9 video card.

FYI the specs I was going on were apparently posted by Gabe on some hl2 fansite, so I would be led to believe that they are close enough to the mark.

And? Game's 'specs' are way off.
Such as, the specs they put with the game telling you what they need to run the game (under recommended hardware), is rubbish. Things do not need to be that high to play on the highest settings of the game. (I'm mostly talking about CPU speed)

Crono said:

directx 9 isn't required

Yes it is.
You just don't need a DX9 video card.

FYI the specs I was going on were apparently posted by Gabe on some hl2 fansite, so I would be led to believe that they are close enough to the mark.

And? Game's 'specs' are way off.
Such as, the specs they put with the game telling you what they need to run the game (under recommended hardware), is rubbish. Things do not need to be that high to play on the highest settings of the game. (I'm mostly talking about CPU speed)

Point 1: Let's split some more hairs, shall we? When someone says directx 9 is required, that means that your card needs to be able to run all the bells and whistles included with that version. At least to me, anyways

Point 2: and? I'm talking about the lowest rung here, what I would need to get the damn thing to run (aka minimum hardware). I don't really give a f**k about how overstated the recommended specs are. Whatever my computer can handle beyond 32bit colors and 800x600 resolution is just icing.

Wow, you missed my point.

I'm talking about the lowest rung here, what I would need to get the damn thing to run (aka minimum hardware). I don't really give a f**k about how overstated the recommended specs are. Whatever my computer can handle beyond 32bit colors and 800x600 resolution is just icing.

I know. Meaning, you shouldn't go off of their specs to know what you need or don't need to update for it to just run. I thought that would have been fairly obvious.

Is there some problem with the way I state things? It seems I hit a nurve almost any time I try to give advise on this f**king site.

Crono said:
Wow, you missed my point.

I'm talking about the lowest rung here, what I would need to get the damn thing to run (aka minimum hardware). I don't really give a f**k about how overstated the recommended specs are. Whatever my computer can handle beyond 32bit colors and 800x600 resolution is just icing.

I know. Meaning, you shouldn't go off of their specs to know what you need or don't need to update for it to just run. I thought that would have been fairly obvious.

Is there some problem with the way I state things? It seems I hit a nurve almost any time I try to give advise on this f**king site.

It's not obvious. I was looking at those as ball park specs, where my computer falls generally in the good area. Of course worrying if a 1.2Ghz cpu will be required is stupid, because things are liable to change and you wouldn't know until you tried to run it anyways.

However, I think its safe to presume that a 3d card will be necessary for this game. Will a 3dFX Voodoo 2 card work for it? Hell no, because Valve has been coding an engine using some base requirements for the card, such as it being directX 7 capable. I highly doubt that you will be able to force a card that's only directX 6 capable to run features it wasn't designed for. And I doubt this far along in development they are suddenly going to switch to a different base version. DirectX 7 capable card requirement has been given by Valve since 2003, so I would suppose it's been set in stone by their coding, which would make sense since directX is only a graphics API which is used as the base for the rest of the code, as I understand it.

Perhaps if you actually read my question you'd understand that all I was asking was if my 3d card was directX 7 compatible, not if or what I should upgrade to get my computer to run a game that hasn't been released yet. :rolleyes: As to why you somehow always manage to be in the middle of a s**tstorm? Dunno, I'm not going to fall into that trap! :biggrin:

So, you're bitching because I didn't give a flat out 'yes or no', answer. :razz:

Anyway, I did read your question, I appologize if it seemed like I was giving more information then what was needed. Relying on 'is my card DX7' or whatever, isn't really a great way to do things. Since, games didn't even support DX really until DX7, meaning most all 3d cards past VooDoo 1 were compatable.

Not to "rag" on your anything, but DirectX is used for many more things then video, the video area is just Direct3D.
Thus you see things like 'directX compatable sound card/keyboar/mouse' etc.

The only reason why you would need to check to see if your card is compatable would be if you wanted the pretty DX9 features.
Lets put it this way, you can run Morrowind (DX8) and BF1942 (DX8.1), even if it isn't running well, they run while requiring versions higher then DX7.

But then again, older GeForce cards run better in OpenGL ...

If HL2 doesn't work on my computer, I'm blaming you! :biggrin:

However, my questioning on this 3d card crap is because the last game anyone in my house purchased was Deus Ex 2, and it turned out it wouldn't run on the GeForce4MX installed on the house computer. Why? Hell if I know, but aside from developer laziness, I'd guess its because the card wouldn't be able to handle some aspect of the engine and they didn't bother recoding it from the xbox version to support it. Actually I think it was that the GeForce4MX didn't support pixel shaders v2.0 or somesuch. And this wasn't simply it ran slowly or choppy or anything, it just flat out didn't run. It even says on the box this game will not work for this card...

That's exactly why :smile:

Pandora Tomorrow has the same "issue". But I don't think the MX cards have pixel shaders, period. Because, my card doesn't even have 2.0 pixel shaders, they're like 1.4 or some crap (and as I stated before, everything runs wonderfully).

But I believe HL2 allows you to turn vertex and pixel shaders off.

Secondly, Why in God's name would you want to play DE2?? ITS CRAP! :biggrin:

So, I don't know if they're going to demand pixel shader support ... if they do ... sorry, if they don't, play some laggy HL2

But it has nothing to do with the way they developed it, they're just too lazy to make it optional. If they did, then it'd probably run fine ... but not physically having those few registers sucks :smile:

Hey, my brother's favorite game is Deus Ex, and he wanted to play the sequel.

And you have no idea how far I'll go just to play. I used to run TFC in software mode with the screensize reduced to about 1/4 the screen to get about 20 fps. I also played competitive matches with an 800 ping (pre lagfix patch of course)...

Oh, I'm very familure with playing on terrible settings.

I was thrilled when I got HL (many years ago) to actually RUN on some 233 (I really don't remember any of the other specs of the machine).

My dad brought some graphics card home (It was actually a Riva TNT from Diamond, and this was in like '98) and I was so angry to find out it required an AGP slot. This was back when I had like 2 PCI slots. So I played HL in software ... terrible, some monitor I found

Right now, I actually can't get HL to run on my laptop, even in software. Which is weird, since my laptop has higher specs then that desktop I had all those years ago.

And people are astonished that I actually own consoles. My computer was crap until a couple years ago. You know the whole 'one generation behind' paradox we've all been in :smile:

Yak_Fighter said:
Hey, my brother's favorite game is Deus Ex, and he wanted to play the sequel.

And you have no idea how far I'll go just to play. I used to run TFC in software mode with the screensize reduced to about 1/4 the screen to get about 20 fps. I also played competitive matches with an 800 ping (pre lagfix patch of course)...

i can vouch for joe, i fragged him many a time at this godaweful ping, and he was an exceptionally gifted fragger.

it was one of the reasons i have been such a staunch yak supporter over the years, it takes a very fair minded person to overcome this major obstacle, and still smile.

personally, i think ping, was the worse thing about mapping, anyone had to endure.