Black Hawk Down-style CS:S map

Well my original plan with my buddy fell through so Im on my own.
We couldnt decide on a map theme, and after playing a very crappy Black
Hawk Down map on CS, I though I'd try and make an actual styled
map. The one I played was simply a large deathmatch map, with no
bomb point or hostages to rescue. The theme was really cheesy.

Would like some opinions on the idea.

I think it would be a great hostage rescue, since the actual Black Hawk
that was downed had survivors that were under siege awaiting a
rescue. While hostage rescue maps aren't the most popular, I just
think it makes the most sense given the scenario.

I think you should try for some sort of figure 8 layout... with the
hostages and terrorists spawning in the middle, and perhaps 2 groups of
CTs (alpha and bravo?) spawning at the top and bottom of the figure
8. I just think that the CT's should be able to approach from
four different directions, and perhaps have enough cover to sneak
around. Rubble near the crash site would be great (perhaps the
Black Hawk plowed through a rooftop and second floor before breaking
through the other side and skidding to a halt on the street?) and it
would offer good cover and the rubble is something I loved from
DoD. Otherwise the buildings in the level should be intact and
inaccessible (except for perhaps a few key sniper spots?).

The problem with city maps is you don't want the player to get confused
or lost. Vary the architecture and texturing, or provide some
landmarks to help orient the player so that it only takes a few rounds
to recognize the layout. Perhaps a larger mosque or something
(not necessarily in the map, perhaps just in the 3D skybox) could serve
as a landmark from with new players can orient themselves.

I think you should look up some images of Mogadishu for architectural
references. I'm not sure where the movie was shot, but you can watch
that for ideas.

I think you need to strike a good balance between realism and gameplay,
between bare streets and too much cover. The level should require
sweeping of corners, and checking behind rubble, but you shouldn't have
to walk into an area and take fire from 10 different hidden
enemies. The crash site could easily become a campfest, so make
sure the Terrorists need to watch both the hostages and their backs.

That's all I've got for now, good luck!

that is actually a very good idea.
im always inspired by some of the estates in my town. maybe ill make a few CSS maps later....

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Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"

Sounds good. If you can get a dusty, arabic city feeling to it, it may work really well for athmosphere.

As for the gameplay, I agree with Addicted to Morphine. It suits best
for a cs_ map. But maybe it'd be a nice idea to spawn the CT's at the
Black Hawk and the T's around them, dare I say an aim_ map... nah,
perhaps mix up that idea with some other gameplay objective, like two
reinforcement routes that the T's could block by blowing up stuff or
such... maybe that's a nice different de_ objective?

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

I was thinking either a hostage rescue, or if it can be done, a CT bomb
map. Where the CTs must bomb a downed Black Hawk. I think
I'll go with hostage rescue though.

The next question is setting. With reference to the movie, Black
Hawk Down, the are 2 missions. The first (situation 1), capture
VIPs, and the second (situation 2), rescue the pilot of the downed
helicopter. Im leanning more towards the downed Black Hawk.

Im trying to make the map as unique as possible. The problem is,
Im way outdated on mapping. I built a Black Hawk heli out of
brushes. But last time I was here I posted a pic of a Cessna I
built and you guys told me to use a model instead.

Anyways, what I was thinking:

For situation 1: CTs spawn in 4 hovering Black Hawks at four corners of
a building, just like the original mission. However, to make the
map a little better, it wouldnt be the 4 corners of the building, but
rather 4 intersections surrounding the building. Terrs spawn in
the middle of the building, in an open area. Hostages are located
in 2 seperate rooms on different floors.

For situation 2: 2 CTs start in a Black Hawk which is circling
the crashed helicopter on the ground. There is only 1
hostage. The rest of the CTs start a few blocks away and the
Terrorists spawn all over the Black Hawk, not just in a specific
building. CTs in the Black Hawk, one is issues a Scout, the
other, an M4. After a while, the Black Hawk will touch down near
the crashed bird and the 2 CTs will arrive on site with the
hostage. They should arrive there before the Terrs do. But
not by much.

Terrs...........CTs

.......\......../

.........\..../

...........\/

.........hostage

it would be cool if it was possible to make the hostages like low level bots that could only stay in that area

ct's- rescue them

t's- kill them

One of the games I liked a lot was... The Sum of All Fears.. it had
some great level design in the game. I would try and get a demo, or the
game its self and look at some of its levels and try to copy them.

I do have the game. Although I didnt like the gameplay. The
Ghost Recon engine was never made for close quarter combat.

Right now, Im designing the Black Hawk, seeing as either way I go, I'll need at least one of those birds.

MS, good to see you buddy :smile:

yeah good to see you too.. I have been slowly working on my seige map..
its comin along but its slow.. as I am a noob at the new tools. It
takes me a tad longer to figure stuff out than you youngins.. lol.

I am willing to try and help you with your map, make a section or something... once you get a good idea of what your doing..

Also try and get fishy to make you some models he is damn good at it.
he made me a couple I have stashed away.. for a hotel 6/holiday inn map
I am making also.

yeah i agree the game play was a bit lacking.. but the maps were nice... as I recall anyways.

I tryed to make a Hotel 6 map once :biggrin: Boy did it ever look like a
mix of Adams Familly and the abandoned house in Fight Club.

Thanks for offering the help. You'll be the first person I'll
call on. Although for now, before even the first brush comes
down, I need to decide which option Im going to go for.

I've got the heli almost completed, brush wise that is. Dont even
ask about textures :biggrin: The only problem Im having is getting those
windows in the cockpit floor on either side of the instrument
panel.. Their shape is very difficult to replicate in VHE..
Damn invalid solid errors.

you do know there is a Blackhawk model.. now where did I see that at? hummmm

I hate models... They make my work look so horrible.. The
question is... can players stand in the model? Or manoeuver it
like a func_train? Assuming HL2's func_train to be the same as
HL1's

yes.. the boats and buggies in the HL2 game are all models.

Effing HL2.... Im too stuck in HL1 mapping. Well, I'll do
without bloody model for this map. After that, I might just stick
to enjoying the levels, not building them. I can only see a few
years from now entire levels being one big model.

[EDIT] Added you to MSN by the way

Ok cool.. I just turned on my MSN.. yeah might be a better way to
communicate or this thread may go way off topic, and besides haveing us
with 40 back and forth replies.. lol

or like a VIP

except like 3 VIP's that spawn at the crash site

Is this a HL1 or HL2 map? cause in HL2 there is no VIP.. damn it.

im thinking cs

Counter Strike Source.

The only stupid thing will be having hostages in work clothes in a Somalian war-wrecked city...

We all have imagination skills but much fewer of us have skinning skills. We'll live :smile: .

A single hostage is unlikely to work well, particularly with a large number of players. Maybe you should stick to VIPs, or have 3-4 crash survivors.

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"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"

• My yr11 Economics teacher

If I see one more Black Hawk Down ANYTHING i'm going to chuck my monitor out the window!!!

Can't you think of anything else, anything at all?! :evilgrin:

Yea I can. But like I said, the current one on CS just sucks so much ass that I have to do something about it.

Make sure to send us pictures of your tossing, and smashed monitor.

Is it possible within CS Source to trigger a major event as
random? I'd like to have the CTs having to capture VIPs (AKA
rescue hostages) within the target building. And from time to
time, Black Hawk would get shot down and crash land at another
area. This would add another hostage to the game and make the
strategy different.

Sort of like in cs_havana I think, the green and red doors open and
close and the window opens and closes.. all different each time the
level loads.

Sorry if Im not making any sense lol..

Ok, this is the idea I have so far:

Most CTs will start all in one group in a building somewhere in the
city. There will be two CT spawn points in a Black Hawk
helicoptor circling over the city. These two CTs will be equiped
with a scout and an M4.

Half of the Terrorist force will start in the target building which
contains the VIPs the CTs must capture (AKA, the hostages the CTs must
rescue). The other half of the spawn points will be spread
throughout the level, inside buildings and on rooftops.

Now, if this is possible to do:

Each time the level is restarted, there runs the chance of a Black Hawk
helicopter getting shot down. If this is the case, that will add
another hostage to the level at the crash site which is located further
away. At this point, the hovering Black Hawk will set down near
the crashed bird and the two CTs will disembark and secure the
hostage. The layout is made so that the Terrorists will have
quicker access to the crashed Black Hawk than the CTs will.

will the helicopter have a mounted gun on it

and you should put a couple LAW's down so the terrorists can just knock the hawk down themselves

or have LAW's as a by option

Umm.. this is Counter Strike. Not DoD or whatever. The
Black Hawk will likely be a func_train or whatever the HL2 equivalent
is, on a predetermined path. Terrorists will have to snipe the
CTs inside the helicopter. Or I might set it to "blow up" if it
takes a certain amount of damage.

LAW's were on condition zero so couldnt you put them on source too

Or I might set it to "blow up" if it
takes a certain amount of damage.

Wouldn't that complicate your work? I'm not talking about the way the
thing will break but of the fact that a helicopter, when taking damage,
tends to pitch and jerk, not fly in a straight line like a target
drone.

LAW's were on condition zero so couldnt you put them on source too

I think he wants to make a map for CSS, not an entire mod. :razz:

i dont really know a lot about mapping so sorry if something i say is nearly or completely impossible to do

Well Wild card, I think instead oh having the helio fly, you should
have it load in 2-3 different places with the hostages.. that way the
CT's going in would have to look at 2-3 different crash sites to
rescue, it would also make certian areas of the map your conflict
areas. You could also have one hostage always load in one area near the
Terrorist spawn.. like he is a seperated team member thats trapped
behind enemy lines.

And if you want a helio to fly, just have it a triggerd effect and not
really part of the game. there is a CS map out there that has a couple
blackhawks landing on a roof and a couple that fly by.. it looks really
cool.. its like a tower map. I'll look for it and send you a link.

If you go into Source, and browse Internet servers... sort by maps and
you'll find a few servers running the Black Hawk Down map. Its a
fairly cheasy map, which has no purpose other than deathmatch.
There is a crashed Black Hawk in the center of the map, and on a roof
top, another one which can be driven just like the trains in Half Life
1. Although the design of the helicopter isnt so good and the
fact that there are no sounds of effects... You can tell the map
was made purely for gameplay, and none so for the visuals.

Your idea of having 2 or 3 different possible crash sites could be
promissing (I still prefer my idea) but the only problem I see with
your idea is that it could make the level a little big, unless the
crash sites are within proximity to each other.

FatStrings, no worries mate :smile: I havent been around here for a
long time, so I dont know who's who anymore, I assumed you were a
seasoned mapper.

Im making the map for a server I play on, which enforces
objectives. Therefore, in this map, the objective is to rescue
the hostages. So even though it could be a DM-style level, the
server it will be (hopefully) hosted on, has strict playing rules.

still it would be cool to have like 3 vips at the crash site and you have to rescue them

Well there will be hostages at a crash site, or just one. Or
something. I havent quite figured it out yet. Im still
debating the options

Someone already voiced their concern about hostages... but you need to
have more than 1. There's really no motivation to rescue the
hostage since they don't get much money from 1. Also -- the
terrorists could easily kill the hostage at the beginning of the round
and turn it into a camp fest. People are more hesitant to kill 4
hostages (or even 3) compared to just 1.

Hey Wild Card take a look at de_xcom.. it has some great effects with Blackhawks.

Morphine has a point, you need to have 3-4 hostages. I still think you
can have 3 at one place and 1 in another, just to make it more of a
challenge.

The way I was going to do a VIP mission was to have 2 hostages start at
the CT spawn point, or near by. Then have the CT's escourt the Hostages
across the map to the exit point. One way you can keep the Terrorist on
their toes is by starting them in 2-3 spots, and have 2-3 exits
points.. so they will have to engage you or lose.

how does that work with your map? Well you could have some CT's start
on the edge of the map.. and have some start with the crashed helio,
with a couple of the hostages, and have a couple other hostages near by
that need to be rescued, this way you have to get out of the area, and
the guys on the edge need to come in and help get their team mates out
as well as the hostages. Would be a new concept in hostage rescue maps.

I was thinking....this map may turn out better if it was made in battlefield 2.

Moneyshot, thats a great idea!

What about the 600 dollars CT's get by touching the hossies every round?

Humm.. yeah that could be a problem.. maybe there is a way to only pay
out for the rescue and not the grabbing.. maybe a setting you have to
adjust.

And I also see the problem of the Terrorists trying to shoot the CTs
and accidentaly shooting a hostage and taking a 1000 dollar penalty.

That would happen anyways.. Every game server I play on, some Yahoo has to kill the hostages... making the map a Death match.

Again I do believe that can be adjusted in the settings. I know that on
some servers I only get 100 bucks for clicking the hostages, and some I
dont get anything unless I rescue them... so there must be a way to set
it so that no matter what server the map is on, the hostages only pay
out if they are rescued.

Money, the server Im making this map for uses professional
Counter-Strike rules. So it's objective oriented. Theres no
deathmatch or shooting hostages. If your goal is to defend the
hostage, then that is what you do.

Thats good. But some yahoo will get on that server DL the map, stick it
on his server.. and then it will be out there.. and the rules on your
server will have been lost. =(

But Maybe someone on here can tell us if there is a way to adjust the
settings on hostages so they have more armour, dont have a click pay
off, and what not..

if its an escorp just make it a vip rescue

no penalty for shooting them and no money for grabbing them

all problems eliminated

Almost all problems eliminated...

Counter Strike Source doesnt come with VIPs... I think.

Nope no VIP's in CS:Source.. unless I missed something.

maybe there is a way to place them as VIP's instead of Hostages?

ah the queerness of steam strikes again, why did they get rid of VIP's

cause they are mean SOB's that should have their penis tossed in a salad shooter.

I think its because most people played DEFUSE or Hostage Rescue maps mainly.. I used to love Oil rig though..

were there any other VIP maps ( OFFICIAL ) maps that is besides oil Rig?

Yes, as_tundra which was great in my opinion.

And I think we're forgetting about the incredibly rare es_ maps (escape). Like es_train.