I thought I would post a pretty thorough review from a friend of mine on another board. He's an excellent player, and been playin awhile. He makes some good points. Thought it might be a good jumping off point to get some discussion started. I responded to some of his comments at the end that i thought were valid. check it out.~BENDER
-------------------------------posted by ten animals
played both T and CT (20 rounds each) and here's my initial impressions:
The level of detail in this map is unreal. The sound effects are great, and totally add to the overall level of immersion (the screams of the patients are one of my faves). While the map itself is overall VERY dark it uses light sources in a clever way so as not to have too many hidden camper areas. Just keep an eye out and make sure to look in the corners.
Upon first playing it, I thought the map was too large, due to the large number of access points and back ways which connect points on the map. However, as I grew to know it better I was surprised at how quickly you could travel from one part to another. If the bomb was planted up top and I was below, I could get to it with plenty of time to defuse.
The upper bomb site is about perfect, what with the large number of access points to it, choke points (not the same as access points), and the HUGE number of spots to either cover the bomb (T) / cover the bombsite (CT). A fast rush will get to the bombsite just as the opposing team gets there, which makes for some interesting firefights what with the large amounts of cover.
However, the basement area needs work. Due to the large number of choke points, stairways, and camper spots the T's would almost always win when bomb is planted down there. As an experiment I did the following: mp_limitteams "9" , mp_autoteambalance "0" , bot_difficulty "3" , then played alone as T against 9 CT's while planting only in the basement. I went 67-4. Very very easily defensible - the only hope the ct's have is to stop the rush to the basement. BUT I may be wrong - I want to play with human teams to see for sure - the bot CT's almost never rushed basement well, so maybe against humans the timing would be different enough to give the CT's more of an edge.
Here's a small thing I noticed which made me a fan: the back stairway which leads to the second floor (near the bloody "experiment" chair"). It was hard to defend from inside and above (camped near the chair/in the hallway/near the windows). The rusher coming up the stairs has a clean field of view, plus can move side-to-side and up-and-down, while a person camped above the stairs is pretty much stuck in place due to the large amount of debris and small doorways. At first this frustrated me, but then I realized the camper too often has the advantage, so kudos to you for not using a ladder at that point and ruining people's stairway rush. If people are always camped out above the courtyard the back stairs are the way to go to get to them!
Overall I would say the map is designed for experienced players. Newer and/or worse players will quickly get overwhelmed and frustrated. It is also the kind of map where if one guy is left alive it could literally take the clock running out to end the round, as hiding and avoiding is easy as hell on this map. I would also recommend playing with at least 5-7 people per team MINIMUM. Also be aware there is a learning curve due to the large number of pathways.
8/10
ok couple comments from me
The level of detail in this map is unreal. The sound effects are great, and totally add to the overall level of immersion (the screams of the patients are one of my faves).
This is something that i was TOTALLY attempting to achieve with this map. Immersive is definitely what i was going for. looking at this map day in and day out I always feels it to be UNDERdetailed, but 3rd party perspective is nice to hear that its VERY detailed. There will be some more sounds coming in the final release (basement, sidehall sitting room, T storage area...). The "patient screams" are just fun fluffy stuff that can take a first timer by surprise, i thought it'd be fun (but not annoying when played many times) thats key.
Upon first playing it, I thought the map was too large, due to the large number of access points and back ways which connect points on the map. However, as I grew to know it better I was surprised at how quickly you could travel from one part to another. If the bomb was planted up top and I was below, I could get to it with plenty of time to defuse.
I think the map is deceptively large, as you said getting from one place to another (especially bomb areas) is essentially quick. I personally think the learning curve for the ins and outs of the map is pretty swift. I purposely didnt want it too complex, or to have players pidgeon-holed in to the same thing every time.
The upper bomb site is about perfect, what with the large number of access points to it, choke points (not the same as access points), and the HUGE number of spots to either cover the bomb (T) / cover the bombsite (CT). A fast rush will get to the bombsite just as the opposing team gets there, which makes for some interesting firefights what with the large amounts of cover.
I agree. There was a lot of time spent getting that interaction point just right. and there are a million ways to defend and attack the courtyard bombsite.
However, the basement area needs work. Due to the large number of choke points, stairways, and camper spots the T's would almost always win when bomb is planted down there.
Hmmm. I havent noticed this issue, but will possibly try your approach and see what happens. I've noticed personally that the bots do not make proper use of things like, flash, smoke and nades in quite the same way as real people do. and I think those weapons are the key to a successful defusal in the basement. MY logic too has been that with all of the entrances and such to cover down there, it is difficult to cover and "seal" all areas, CTs can leak in from many different directions. its one of those things that only human player will be able to flesh out (pardon the pun).
I realized the camper too often has the advantage
Ahh, so true. This map could be a camper heaven or hell. lots of opportunity, but plenty of vulnerability to possibly offset. Snipers can have some fun too, but with equal consequences. I would also like to stress the importance of smoke, nades, and flashes. A personal fav move of mine is (when going T) to toss a smoke grenade right onto the courtyard A bombsite and plant in the haze. no one has a shot and when the smoke clears, the bombs tickin away.
my overall goals were to give experienced players a challenge while offering the newbie some shadows to creep around in, all he while giving everyone something "new" for counterstrike, namely, a map with some atmosphere and spook.
~BENDER
