dm_waterwerx_final

Febuary 14th 2006. I am finished with the map.

Reno, I did almost everything you mentioned, however, During my recent computer upgrade, My hard drive with the vmf file died, Doh! The only area I could'nt upgrade was the long hallway. Every one of your other suggestions was put into use. Many Thanks, and as well to the rest of you guys with your helpful comments,suggestions.

To work on this any further would be futile. Time to move on to another map.

I do think this one is a keeper though now.

I will try and get some screenshots up later today, but for now here's the download:

http://gamersdiner.com/downloads/dm_waterwerx.zip

I promised I wouldn't tell anyone... :razz:

It looks better now that it's brighter, although I don't think this
killbox will be very popular. Perhaps it would be better if this
was kept a behind the scenes learning exercise?

By the way, the textures definitely look better on your machine, although those bricks still look ginormous.

Well you've got lighting, cables, props, decals, ladders and weapons/items down. Time for a real map!

whispers just above audibility

"but, its a box"

I like to consider it "just the first room", ahem.

I'm off to practice curved-arched hallways now.

Juim said:
I like to consider it "just the first room", ahem.

wipes brow

cool, /me was scared for a second.

BTW, nice looking box full of props/prefabs you got there. :heee:
/runs.

Is it cubemapped?
Looks ok so far but make it more interesting with the arch tool as you wrote above :smile:

(bump)screenie updates above.

This map certainly is a gallimaufry of different elements.

That light inside the crushed storage container doesn't make much
sense. Perhaps a flare... or a lantern or a broken combine light
thing that's been detached.

The scale seems really off.. its like halfway to a Rats map. I'm
thinking particularly of the big door and the curved hallway.

the scale seems too big, but I can see that you are learning quite well.

one thing is that it seems kind of random, y would there be one machine, then nothing else there? Also, right next to the machine is a huge red container trhingy of a moebobber, but anyways, good map for your first time!

Don't take screenshots while crouching - it makes it impossible for us to judge the scale.

bump?

Sorry, did'nt know how else to move the thread up :rolleyes:

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Quote from Nietzsche....God is dead
Quote from God....Nietzsche is dead

Ouch. You need some cubemaps in there.

Crazy americans and your wrong way round date notation, always catches me off guard :biggrin:

Well, its improving. There still isn't much here that doesn't jump out
to me as being overly simplistic and empty, but its getting there I
suppose. The first screenshot is the most interesting of the bunch due
to the attempt at varied lighting and some non-box architecture, but
its a rather garrish clash in my opinion. Things need to be toned down
and the colours should be a bit more subtle - the yellow in partcular,
as yellow lighting thats so in your face tends to give a very "yucky"
feel to a level. The fifth screenshot with the archways is also not too
bad looking, but the lighting is bland and the textures don't sit too
well with each other or the setting in my opinion - the concrete in
particular is far too pristine to be part of a sewer of some
description. Something you should certainly look into using are the
layered textures, which are designed to be stacked above each other.
These are easy to use (simply cut up your walls into horizontal strips
and use the relevant texture on strip) and without demanding any
complex architecture give your map a far more detailed and natural look.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

I'm very interested in the layered textures you spoke of, is there somewhere I can get more info on this?.

Thanks for your reply also.

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Quote from Nietzsche....God is dead
Quote from God....Nietzsche is dead

I just mean that there are some textures that have different versions,
typically for stacking purposes. Look at the textures and you will see
that many of them have variants with features like stains or trims and
are meant to be stacked vertically to stop repetition and add realism.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

Or use a cubemap, that'll interest you I'm sure. Check leps tutorial on it- basically makes things look nicer and works out light and reflection values or something. Whatever it is, it doesn't matter, but you should place one in each room, and sometimes also around doorways.

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-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-

I feel very small looking at these shots, like its been overscaled by a factor of 1.5

Also - the tunnel leading to your main waterpipe room (with the red and
green lights) doesnt seem to be in the middle of the wall in relation
to the other archway.

In your second picture It looks weird that the ramp touches both the
ground and the grate. I think it should only come down and touch
concrete.

But like ReNo said, its still very boxy, but you're improving the look, and its now less apparent.

ReNo said:
Crazy americans and your wrong way round date notation, always catches me off guard :biggrin:

Its not the wrong way around poopchute.

Americans tend to type the date as its said out loud.. Hence 12/25/05 is December 25th..? People around here do not tend to say 25 December unless they are from the military.. I can read it almost any way its posted but prefer it the civilian way personally. The only thing that ever throws me is deciphering which was intended at the moment of posting. Having a multinational forum does throw me for a loop sometimes till I look who posted and then it usually falls into place. Americans tend to post it how I am accustomed, Uk's tend to post it the other... So when I see who posted I know how to read it correctly. :heee:

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The best things in life, aren't things.

hmm, i say 25th december, sounds more formal imho... and im not in the military,

oh yeah, im in the UK soo...

Nice looking map btw, really could do with some env_cubemaps though,

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I need a new sig

Maybe move the light entities a few clicks away from the light models. You'll lose alot of the brightness around the light model and give it a more real feel.

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Condemnation without Investigation is the Highest Form of Ignorance!

bump :rolleyes:

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Quote from Nietzsche....God is dead
Quote from God....Nietzsche is dead

Your brush work is looking much better. Lighting is a major
problem, and your scale could use some work. Your making great
progress.

it looks good. and damn the textures are so perfect on your machine.

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Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"

<div><div>Lighting is a major problem, </div></div>

Could you be more specific about the lighting?. I kinda thought I was doing OK there, albeit unfinished. The main area still has that big ugly yellow light, but i was going to get rid of that. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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Quote from Nietzsche....God is dead
Quote from God....Nietzsche is dead

I count 12 screens total. So far I can distinguish no pattern between them so I am assuming you are going for the mosaic style of map, albeit with only one author contributing.

I find that I like the attempt at sprucing up via the arched halls, but some of the LOS is rather extreme for a DM map IMO.

A hall that takes over a certain time frame to negotiate almost assures that you will die before you reach the other end. I am a bit undecided on the horsey statue though. Mosaic or not, it doesn't fit somehow.

The map seems to new to worry about lighting deficiencies at this time, but as long as plans are in the works to address them, I feel no further mention of them is warranted at this moment until you say, "What do you think of the lighting"

I think also that the floors and ceilings are a bit to one dimensional. Some contrasting in elevations and depressions would go a long way.

Good luck.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

floors and ceilings are a bit to one dimensional. Some contrasting in elevations and depressions would go a long way.

good point, break up the floor and ceiling with some steps and some grates that look down onto some pipes.

as for your lighting, it needs more contrast. Take out ever other
ligth in the hall way so the pattern of the wall and floor break up a
little and the player gets a better sensation of moving with the light
and dark falling onto his gun.

You could also use more lighting colors, and types of light.

i've been told that the best way to do this is with a 3 point lighting
system. one strong light (like the combine light or a spot light)
one set of soft lights (florcent [sp?] or wall lights) and one bright
point light (like a fire that cast orange light all over the
room). This will leave good shadows withouth alot of pure black
and it will also add quite a bit to your rooms.

Also, don't put any major visual breaks at eye level, it creates bizzare unworldly effects with perspective.

Just realised the name, does it have anything to do with bladders or toilets etc?

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-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-

bump. The latest progress. I have one or two more major areas to complete for connectivity and theme. About 65% done now.

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Quote from Nietzsche....God is dead
Quote from God....Nietzsche is dead

Looks good so far, here are some critiques. Feel free to take or disregard them as you see fit.

Have some fun with your ceilings. They don't have to all be flat planes. Have a look at dm_lockdown and check out how much stuff is going on in the ceilings there. Also in some places like the third and last pics you used light entities where I think a spotlight would have been better.

In a lot of the pics the lighting is washed out due to how many light entities you have used. The best lighting IMO contrasts light and dark to accentuate the 3d features of the geometry you have created. When the lighting is washed out you can't get that effect. It is possible to have a "bright" map and still have lighting contrast - many of the Valve maps do this brilliantly. Have a look at the following pic and how the lighting spills in from the skylights and doorways, and around the pillar:
http://web.gameguru.ru/img/img/half-life_2/half-life_2_large_8.jpg

Remember, with lighting less is more. If you feel the need to have a ton of lights for architectural consistency, make some of them broken. Better to have 1 bright light than 5 mediocre lights.

I love the area in the 4th screenshot - looks to have great vertical gameplay.

Some of the areas - specifically the bathroom and the lab - look way too tall. Maybe lower the ceiling down a bit there.

In the lab you might also consider adding some columns for both detail and tactical cover.

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http://maze5.net

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting mazemaster</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>many of the Valve maps do this brilliantly. Have a look at the following pic and how the lighting spills in from the skylights and doorways, and around the pillar:
http://web.gameguru.ru/img/img/half-life_2/half-life_2_large_8.jpg
quote]

Here is last nights latest efforts. I took what you said to heart. Its early for this area, but the layout is basically done. I am goint to try to fancy up the ceiling here, but there is more map directly above this room, so I will have to do whatever I do within the current confines of the space.

</DIV></DIV>

I have been watching this thread slowly mildew for a while now. Perhaps you should have kept your sentiments about Orpheous to yourself after all.

As for myself, sadly with 56k I no longer aspire to map. Perhaps I will get used to these longer load times. As to the map, I love the lighting you got going. If I could map half so well I'd be fit to be tied.

Good luck with the map, and your sentiments about fellow forum members.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Underdog said:
I have been watching this thread slowly mildew for a while now. Perhaps you should have kept your sentiments about Orpheous to yourself after all.

Good luck with the map, and your sentiments about fellow forum members.

This was perhaps the most oddly unsettling map comment I have ever read,(on a personal level anyways). I fail to see how my saying He was frustrating at times has anything to do with this thread collecting mildew. Anywho, that was just.......wierd. Thanks for the other comments though.

My comment was nothing personal. I rarely comment on maps because last time I really opened up and spoke my mind, I was royally trounced. :rolleyes: Apparently, if your mapping repertoire is nil, you have no opinion around here worth a hoot.

I do like the looks of this map. If your personal opinion on other members is another matter, so be it. Its not my place to comment otherwise, at least till its my turn to occupy your comments.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

I'm confused. As far as I know, Juim and Orph were pretty good forum-pals. And I KNOW Orph knows he's frustrating sometimes. So, maybe you just mis-understood what he said?

On the topic of mapping repertoire ... I don't think Juim would be classified as a "light-weight". The stuff he has, at least right now, in his profile, for example. Are well made and reflect knowledge of the process ... no matter how boxlike they may be :razz:

(I thought Klingon was pretty fun.)

Don't take any of this as ganging up on you or something like that. I just thought I'd point out that it isn't that serious of a situation and you seem .. I don't know, offended somehow.

As for your "speaking [your] mind" comment. With the eye roll. I'm not sure if I remember exactly what happened, but the only way I can think of it being that big of a deal is if you said something offensive or mean ... or whatever it maybe. Because, if you speak your mind without using the expense of someone else it rarely turns into a s**t-fest.

Anyway:

Juim, As for the map ... it's very unique. It looks like you're incorporating all sorts of different styles, while still keeping a "underground" facility look. I also have a thing for arched ceilings. But, it looks nice so far. :smile:

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I was basically told to shut up. There are not many ways to "interpret" that. I was not told by Juim, so if there is any confusion I apologize.

As to the Orpheous/Juim thing, I base my comment on Juim's words, not Orpheous's. Juim was the one with a somewhat pointed opinion about his "absence"

Once again, I apologize if I misunderstood the situation. For all I know they both are married and have 5 children.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Well in between re-modeling my house,(I spent about 12 hours underneath it this weekend finishing sewer and water lines) I managed to squeeze in some mapping.This is the final large arena room. The map stands now at about 90% complete. I only need some connective architecture for playability and then I'm ready for beta testing and comments, tweaking and changes.





Here are acouple of noclip shots just for fun

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Quote from Nietzsche....God is dead
Quote from God....Nietzsche is dead

I am actually hesitant to reply for 2 reasons. Last time I did, the author disappeared for 30 days. :sad: and this map is clearly an example of my point in our discussion in that other thread.

How long do you feel it will be before we can have a download link sir?

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Juim, I don't have much time to post ideas right now, but before I ran
off to class I wanted to say that the main room is a marked improvement
over what you had before. There's room for improvement, but I
think you've come a long way. I remember playing the first
version of this on your server. It was strangely lit and had
stretched out textures and random props (like that big red freight
container) and at least here that generator model fits in well.

Anyway - more ideas later. I wish I had HL2 here, because then I
could ask you for the BSP so I could do a run through and offer
comments.

Cheers, Juim.

Download link should be before the end of October.

Thanks Morphine, I'll look forward to your comments.

Hey Juim nice map you got there, and dont know about any last versions
:sad: sorry, but im willing to play this one, if you have a bsp right
now...you could upload it on www.ihud.com and i can play-test is for
you...

Nice map dude :smile: - Keep it up :biggrin:

-Dark

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.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.

If you can get a download up between wednesday and friday I can
definitely play it at home (I'm driving back down from school for a few
days for fall break).

Otherwise, I wont be able to do a run through. I'm without HL2 at school.

Make some last minute changes, and PM me a download link if you're not
ready to release it to the general public. I'd be really happy to
run through at home.

Juim, I'm home now until Saturday. Post a download and I'll give her the old run around.

OK folks, lemme have it. I am basically done with the layout. I need to add some clochkies and what-nots for presentation, and some minor tweaking to some areas, but I am mostly interested in layout/weapon placement thoughts, and any glaring errors. Also can somebody run this on a linux server and see if it crashes it or not?. I am alittle worried about that. Sorry it took so long. Thanks in advance for the comments.

http://gamersdiner.com/downloads/dm_waterwerx.zip

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Quote from Nietzsche....God is dead
Quote from God....Nietzsche is dead

I would, but I don't have a machine running on Linux that has enough space :sad: (Or resources, I'm sure)

But, if you can do a normal dedicated server ... it should be fine ... right?

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Yah, runs fine on my PC.

hmmm, 4 downloads and zero comments. This does not bode well young padawan.

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Quote from Nietzsche....God is dead
Quote from God....Nietzsche is dead

Juim said:
hmmm, 4 downloads and zero comments. This does not bode well young padawan.

You have gaps in updating your map here that measure in weeks and you want replies in a day.

Today is Friday, I'd expect that you'll get your feedback sometime tomorrow. Look at that stupid demographic poll. Most of these tykes are in school. :rolleyes:

I however, need to work on my car today. I would hope to take a peek at this map before tonight. If I can, I will try to post something, even if its not to indepth.

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There is no history until something happens, then there is.

I just downloaded it, I'll run through it this afternoon.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.