Here's the first map I've done to reach the 85% fin. stage. I'm busy adding a room/ground floor into the building where the rpg resides. Some have said that the map is too small but I think it's better to try and complete your first release.

weapons: all

spawn points : 10

water : no

teleports : no

hdr : no

............................................................................................................

It looks nice, maybe add some more variation in lightning, and more rooftop stuff and wall details.

For example the area in the second screenshot would look much more interesting with wires going across the rooftops, antennas on the building in the end, maybe a ladder on the wall, not necessarily a usable ladder but having a ladder going to a little platform where a door leads into the building would make it look like the map is bigger (unless you can already enter the building).

Put a space between those images. You borked my screen with a sidescroll.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

soz about borking your screen -

Image 1: A bit to cluttered for my taste.
Image 2: /me likes. A bit dark but screenshots aren't the best gauge for light quality.

Is there more than 2 areas?

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The best things in life, aren't things.

It's a pretty complex, yet compressed map. I like it a lot so far.

A couple of things I noticed:

• The doors blocked by wooden boards could turn out to be obstructive in the heat of battle. You might want to simplify or even remove some of them.
• It sometimes wasn't 100% clear which places you could jump to (the skybox near the wooden boxes) or crouch under (bathroom hole) resulting in some frustrating tests on the player's side. Maybe make these more obvious.
• The interiors are rather tight. I don't know how this could be changed, but where ever you feel you could get rid of a wall, try deleting or opening it up.
• lighting is even better than it looks on the screens. I'd still try some even brighter lights for the outside. For example making the two yellow lights near the statue brighter to cover a bigger part of the shady half of the yard. Of course you could experiment a little more with some of the other lights as well.

I can't say much about item placement before I played the map on a server. But this is a really impressive achievement. Especially (but not only) because it's your first release.

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Why snark works.

/me notices point of origin.

/me hopes its not another Jimmi account.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

I'm busy putting a ground-floor into the building with the rpg, just to give a little more dimension to the map. That building with rpg is the last thing I worked on in the map, and I find it to be a little one-dimensional/filler/unoriginal etc. Maybe adding a ground floor could just make it more involved.

"The doors blocked by wooden boards could turn out to be obstructive in the heat of battle. You might want to simplify or even remove some of them."[b]-[color=limegreen]Reaper47-[/b][/color]

[color=white]soz Reaper, but which wooden boards are you talking about? all the boards blocking doorways are breakable.[/color]

[color=white]Making some of the interiors less tight is a good idea; I'll see where I can get away with removing some walls etc. I'll intensify the outside lights aswell.Thanks for the feedback.[/color]

Orpheus, soz for not understanding, but what is a Jimmi account?[color=white]

[/color]

it's when your IP is the same as the one used by a member that went by the name of Jimmi. he had loads of other names too, and they all showed up on the little IP checker button that the admins have, as originating from the exact same place.

cool button, btw.

:wink:

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i eat paint

What I meant about the wooden boards was that it can take a while to break them one by one. It's the 3 seconds it takes for someone to throw a grenade.

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Why snark works.

thanks Reaper, I c what u mean. I'll remove some of them.

K. Put a darn hole in the building - and added a space inside the groundfloor. Now you can drop down to the ground level through the hole.

here's the new busted wall entrance. Don't want to put more debris outside though - enough allready!



and a view from the inside: it's still way too dark in there and it's gonna take a while to make it seem convincingly messed up. Don't think this place will see a lot of action though as this by far the tightest spot on the map, but I put another crossbow in there since this map has the dreaded rpg! :

This map is shaping up to be a very solid first release, but I did notice some issues that break the believability of the space that wouldn't be too hard to fix up. First: very shortly after I loaded the map up I noticed the constant ambient screaming and moaning (slowed down burning zombie?) that really doesn't fit the theme at all, it's more annoying than anything else.
Leaving the ambient sound like that would be like for this map, IMHO.
There are also invisible walls in a few places that make the map feel constricted; invisible walls should generally be avoided like the plague, if the path needs to be blocked add a visual cue that it's blocked.

This smoke looks very unnatural, in reality smoke doesn't accumulate into a ball in open air, heat makes it rise and it gets carried off by the wind.


This ceiling doesn't look like it would support much, it would need heavier support beams running opposite the floor boards.


The debris in this area sometimes blocks the player and has to be jumped onto.



This invisible wall gives no indication that it's impassable, it actually looks like you should be able to jump right over. With the smashed building next to it maybe you could use some debris to show that this way is blocked.



You can stand on the very edge of this ledge, and with a high-value item there I suspect I'm not the only person who would try to jump onto it. I'd suggest cutting this ledge back to make it unreachable, rather than just correcting the invisible wall.


Last one: I really like this vista, the scale of skybox is very good, and it makes everything blend together and really look like a larger space, but it would be much more visually appealing if there were some more buildings of varying height, right now it's basically a horizontal line across the screen. It also might not be a bad idea to add a few structures further back to fill in the cracks where you can see sky between buildings. The courtyard below could also use some work, as right now it seems like 'the rather empty dead-end courtyard' would be a good name for the area.


Overall the map is looking very good. I think the layout works as it is, and if you add too much more play area it'll just start feeling like a maze. That's just my opinion though.

Also, a belated welcome to the Snarkpit :wink:

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o

Thank you for the critique Baron. I also think that I'm going off on a tangent now by adding rooms in rpg building, making the main roof of the building accessible etc. So I've decided to keep it simple and fix those things you pointed out - it's so easy to lose sight of where a map is heading without objective feedback, so thank you again. dm_derelict_ extended version will have to wait me thinks. :dorky:

I agree with everything Baron von Snickers said, so I won't repeat it. But here's the more thorough look at the level I promised. It's pretty much everything I could think of. Sorry for the huge load.

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Why snark works.

eish! thanks Reaper. Busted wall in bathroom fixed. Fire and smoke removed. slam removed from next to explosive barrel. I'll get to the rest asap, pity the weekend is over though

Thank you for pointing out little things I missed/ I'm now messing around with buildings in the skybox, extending the horizon a bit more aswell, and I'll hav to create func-detail buildings for it cause the skybox props are so limited. Struggling to get ideas for the courtyard though, I don't want to clutter that area too much. This map is changing quite a bit. I wish I could just spend a whole week on it and get it sorted.

Opening up the rooftops and high areas opens up a whole new range of possibilities:

wow, from here it looks to show promise, /me downloads

Thanks Fatstrings. This map is gonna be released in two versions: small and a bit bigger. Seems everybody wants me to make it bigger before even considering putting it on our local server. sigh. Will post a new map thread for the extended version sometime soon.

K. It seems that the only way I'm gonna get this map on our local server is to make it bigger. So I have, kind of, not by going sideways but upwards :kitty:

Will upload the new version today or sometime this weekend.

K. I have uploaded the new version. There is still a lot left to do. Basic changes include removing the fire and smokestacks alltogether but for one, opening up the ceiling so you can run around with the the rpg, adding another crossbow so you can can kill the rpg guy running around on the roof, adding a few more light sources, opening up some of the tight areas, removing unwanted filler, adding a few more spawn points, clipping.

The rpg building is now closed again - opening it up was a terrible idea and it would take too long to fin to just become a place that players avoid.

STILL HAVE TO: Finish the skybox, optimize for best performance, put clipping on a few areas that really need it, make the bathroom area look more derelict amongst other things.

http://files.filefront.com/dm_derelict_ext_beta5zip/;6859706;;/fileinfo.html

This map was great from the beginning but it's getting better and better. It brings back qualities I thought to be long lost since HL1 mapping.

I think you've pointed out most of the issues I could come up with in your TODO list so I'll wait and watch for now :smile:

One thing, though: You're starting to have an awful lot of crates for jumping over obstacles. Crates are OK here and there but it's easy to go overboard with them. For some of the brush-based crates that are there as a help to jump over certain obstacles I think it would be better to get rid of the crates and the obstacles. Tearing down some walls and such.

Really nice. This could should turn out to be one of my favorites.

But don't get lazy from hearing all this praise, lol. The final detailing can take very long and is quite important IMO.

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Why snark works.

THANKS Reaper.

I'm going to remove some of those crates, esp. the one at the edge of the courtyard: going to have to do something about that square wall surround aswell. Just be glad you did not see the complete mess inside the rpg building before I closed it up again.



why did I ever decide to come inside here? To camp? Smoke gets in your eyes...

So much work has gone into this map, I do realize that the hard work is only starting now (like you said). lol, it's gone from 85% to 87%...

Some updates:

• Added more clipping brushes
• removed two spawn points
• added more details to buildings
• added spotlight
• added teleport room ( not so sure about that though -might be removed )
• opened up the courtyard wall with a gap for easier access

still have to fin the darn skybox - gonna leave that for the end.

download update here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?alnddfnnibo

Alright. Near-finished I'd say. There's a couple of issues with the ways around the yard walls. Also I'd remove the teleport again. I'm all for teleports but it's a huge theme break and IMO not worth it. Also I'd still simplify the wooden boards blocking doors and the stairs. They could be one entity for all the board brushes blocking the same way and should go from one pistol-shot.

I like most of the new connections.

Here are a couple of things I found. If you try doing something about them (and don't add anything more :wink: ) I have no further complaints. This map is awesome.

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Why snark works.

Thanks Reaper

That hint brush did help with the frame rates. I opened up the courtytard somewhat more + adding combine ball on the statue, re-alligned those off textures, put a clip brush over that debris next to bathroom, added more lights, removed the teleport.

This map is now completed at the Beta stage and I'll only update it again later , otherwise I'll just keep adding more and more.

download the latest version : http://hosted.filefront.com/Jakkalsmeister/

Alright, no more complaints from my side. Really. :wink: I guess the ways around outside the courtyard will always stay a bit too narrow and remote because they were added as an afterthought but you integrated them pretty much as good as it gets.

It's very OK to run a map as a beta on servers for a few weeks. I'd even recommend it. People don't mind the appendix in the filename and it gives you the chance to wait for the truly odd errors that could theoretically pop up only after extensive playtests on various servers. In other words: I think this map is finished, but I'd wait a bit before releasing a final version. It's very annoying to be forced to release a tiny fix a week after you proudly announced a "final" version and all servers have to change files ect.

I am very, very impressed with this map. It's been a while that I've seen a map that works so well on pretty much every aspect of design.

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Why snark works.

dm_derelict doesn't feature any big red buttons that call in airstrikes. Neither does it use hundreds of Megabytes of custom textures or model work. It doesn't have any of this because it doesn't need it. The map only focuses on what's important so everything that is there is excellent. Derelict is the kind of map I wished to be the standard for HL2DM mapping, while, in reality, maps of this quality only pop up once or twice a year.

The map is set in your typical Eastern European city, but it combines the gloomy mood of the Ravenholm chapter with the brighter and more urban parts of the City 17 levels. It mixes some well-known sceneries into a surprisingly fresh and distinctive theme. The multi-story, fully accessible buildings with their many roof terraces and balconies create an almost Mediterranean feeling, like a place in Italy or Spain.

The layout is smooth throughout the map with a lot of height variation spread over four or more layers. A large amount of balconies, ledges and accessible rooftops results in many interesting places to explore and ways to move around the map. Behind every corner, the player has multiple choices of where to go next. There has hardly been a map since HL1 that packs so much freedom of movement, especially vertically, into such a dense space. Once you reached one end of the map you already get homesick for the other.

Texturing is simple, sharp and spot-on. Lighting consist of pale, cold but bright-enough moonlight broken up with yellow light bulps that hull essential corners of the map into a pleasant, warm glow. Buildings are packed with interesting architectural details, which can only be the result of careful observation of real-world environments, and the effort put into them pays. Even though the polygoncount stays rather low, you never feel like being stuck between artificial blocks of brushwork; everything has a natural quality to it. There are enough visual landmarks to make navigation easy, learning the layout is a matter of minutes. A pretty ordinary soundscape is used to create the ambience, and while it fits, it's a bit too loud and random sometimes and it also stopped playing for me in certain areas.

Weapon placement is classic with the usual guns scattered around the map. The RPG can be found in a tower-like position, but is rather hard to reach or guard which should balance things out again (RPG haters might still complain). Physics props are placed sparsely but there's usually enough to throw around in the lower parts of the map. Too many custom maps use the "avoiding clutter" argument to conveniently ignore physics item placement and turn their HL2DM maps into Quake maps. Derelict has good physics gameplay without ever obstructing the flow.

So is this map perfect? No, there are plenty of details to complain about. The paths around the courtyard have been added as an afterthought, and it shows as they're a bit narrow and require too much jumping to move around. The windows are too small to easily duck-jump through them. The wooden boards that block some entrances can turn out to be annoying in the heat of battle. And ultimately, the map IS simple when it comes to entity work and visuals.

Still, Derelict is the kind of map that should serve as an example for all the mappers that complain about being "restricted" by HL2DM's current texture and prop sets. There's so much you can make out of seemingly limited content - if you focus on what's important.

Oh, and I forgot to mention: This is the authors first release!

Verdict

A very smart and detailed map that does all the things I like about HL2DM.

dm_derelict doesn't feature any big red buttons that call in airstrikes. Neither does it use hundreds of Megabytes of custom textures or model work. It doesn't have any of this because it doesn't need it. The map only focuses on what's important so everything that is there is excellent. Derelict is the kind of map I wished to be the standard for HL2DM mapping, while, in reality, maps of this quality only pop up once or twice a year.

The map is set in your typical Eastern European city, but it combines the gloomy mood of the Ravenholm chapter with the brighter and more urban parts of the City 17 levels. It mixes some well-known sceneries into a surprisingly fresh and distinctive theme. The multi-story, fully accessible buildings with their many roof terraces and balconies create an almost Mediterranean feeling, like a place in Italy or Spain.

The layout is smooth throughout the map with a lot of height variation spread over four or more layers. A large amount of balconies, ledges and accessible rooftops results in many interesting places to explore and ways to move around the map. Behind every corner, the player has multiple choices of where to go next. There has hardly been a map since HL1 that packs so much freedom of movement, especially vertically, into such a dense space. Once you reached one end of the map you already get homesick for the other.

Texturing is simple, sharp and spot-on. Lighting consist of pale, cold but bright-enough moonlight broken up with yellow light bulps that hull essential corners of the map into a pleasant, warm glow. Buildings are packed with interesting architectural details, which can only be the result of careful observation of real-world environments, and the effort put into them pays. Even though the polygoncount stays rather low, you never feel like being stuck between artificial blocks of brushwork; everything has a natural quality to it. There are enough visual landmarks to make navigation easy, learning the layout is a matter of minutes. A pretty ordinary soundscape is used to create the ambience, and while it fits, it's a bit too loud and random sometimes and it also stopped playing for me in certain areas.

Weapon placement is classic with the usual guns scattered around the map. The RPG can be found in a tower-like position, but is rather hard to reach or guard which should balance things out again (RPG haters might still complain). Physics props are placed sparsely but there's usually enough to throw around in the lower parts of the map. Too many custom maps use the "avoiding clutter" argument to conveniently ignore physics item placement and turn their HL2DM maps into Quake maps. Derelict has good physics gameplay without ever obstructing the flow.

So is this map perfect? No, there are plenty of details to complain about. The paths around the courtyard have been added as an afterthought, and it shows as they're a bit narrow and require too much jumping to move around. The windows are too small to easily duck-jump through them. The wooden boards that block some entrances can turn out to be annoying in the heat of battle. And ultimately, the map IS simple when it comes to entity work and visuals.

Still, Derelict is the kind of map that should serve as an example for all the mappers that complain about being "restricted" by HL2DM's current texture and prop sets. There's so much you can make out of seemingly limited content - if you focus on what's important.

Oh, and I forgot to mention: This is the authors first release!

Design

Gameplay

Verdict
A very smart and detailed map that does all the things I like about HL2DM.

Pros
Lot's of interesting areas, fine texturing and lighting.

Design
No revolutionary new ideas, the ways around the courtyard are too narrow, some annoying obstacles