de_Substructure

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:I had a vision, and i managed to hammer out a base layout. Starting on paper and then building a quick mock up in hammer i have what i believe to be a working, entertaining layout. It's large if not huge (in my opinion).
I have not actually started building the final product. I would like to get some feedback before i finish up my on paper sketches (for theme) and general layout. After that i'll start the actual build.
Sorry the screens are in full bright (along with the compile) but, they really don't depict anything anyway. I'll listen to comments about anything. Spam if you want, it's all good. But what i really need is comments on the layout. Some of my scaling is off and i still don't know how tall my floors are going to be.
I have the bsp. and nav. file up for download. And yes i know the bsp. and nav. files are spelled wrong.

I realize most of you don't have the time or the want to download and run through a map (especially at this stage). So maybe this helps a little.
<a href="http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/636/overhead22in8.jpg" target="_blank"></A>

you might want some more crosswalks across the center, I can't really tell the feel of the map without walking through it

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

This should be better. Sorry, i was in a rush to get to bed last night.
Thanks FatStrings. i fear over connectivity but, i might end up doing that.
<a href="http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3294/overhead23he3.jpg" target="_blank"></A>

I have had this for a while. Figure i just post it now. I'll pick up work on it again when the first comp is over.

Layout is about done. Vary marginal lighting.

I have also updated the download if your interested in taking a look.

Little bit of texturing and detailing.

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Reality has become a commodity.

Too blocky ceilings, too many tile-textures. I can't say anything about the layout as I don't have CSS installed and it's so hard to do it from screenshots alone. Looks thoughtful.

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Why snark works.

You should move the lights down a bit, to remove focus from the ceiling.

Ya, i'm going to move those lights. Thanks Natus.
As for it the blocky ceilings, Their still a work in progress.
Thanks guys. Harsh criticism are best.

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Reality has become a commodity.

Good desgin. Thats all I can really say for now, work on the map more and I'll comment again.

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Aaron's Stuff

I made a layout change. I took 2 small, relatively pointless, rooms and made it one larger more entertaining room.

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Reality has become a commodity.

I made some more layout changes. after looking a my map for a while it struck me as bland so i moded some rooms and add one new one.





add some creative lighting, some models, this part should turn out nice.

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Reality has become a commodity.

Be careful with those rooms! Oh so many rooms!

Some of them have very boring, rectangle-shaped and way too big blueprints. Do the following: Look at a room, think of what would happen if you completely deleted it (or a big part of it). If you can't think of any concrete reason for why the room must stay (so big) - delete it!

It's hard enough to build a tight and efficient layout. But your last changes make it look very wasteful and open. Don't fall for the "I'll detail this later" trap. You'll never be able to "detail" a room like this. It's too big. If you're building something of this proportions you have to collect detailed reference material and have already concrete plans for it's purpose, the shape of the ceiling, etc. before you even build it in Hammer. And in this case, I have to say, it doesn't look like it.

I remember giving you the same tip for your last map. Try it! It might save you a lot of work and can drastically improve the game flow.

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Why snark works.

Yes, believe it or not i took that lesson form my last map to hart. Their is only one room i don't know how exactly I'm going to fill. (the fist thum in my last post, left front room)

I had a drawing done on paper for every room before i even started the real build in hammer. I ended up adding a couple more after i had the thing put together but i alway kept in mind that i was going to have to detail it eventually. I even had a idea for the room in the thumb i mentioned, but i forgot it. I should have sketched it out. oops!

That room you mentioned is a static prop or 2 short of being done (except for comedic touch ups of course). I don't think i needs to be filled, but i do still what to hear your opinion. I'm not trying to pass off what u said. I am going to run through and see if their is any space i can delete, because god know it make life easer.

Does anyone els hear think i have to much space to fill also?

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Reality has become a commodity.

I'm only trying to save you the troubles I had with adding big areas like that myself. I'm not sure whether this is a general bit of wisdom or just my own experience. It just came to my mind :/

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Why snark works.

I understand, and thanks. Don't stop throughing your opinions at me when u have them. I will be making changes to some areas per your advice. I'm going to bee spending a lot of time tweaking the layout.

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Reality has become a commodity.

I agree with reaper on this one. The rooms don't seem to look like they have a particular purpose. Like the picture reaper posted reminded me of a kitchen or break room of some sort, but all it is is just a space with some tables and chairs. There's no reason for that kitchen to be there. It's just a big empty space with some tables and chairs. Definitely not my definition of a "room." But it does qualify for a space lol. Why can't those chairs and tables be on the top floor? Why does there need to be two separate floors? Sure it breaks up the monotonous geometry of all the flat spaces from room to room, but architecturally (and more true to what a designer should think about before drafting such a space) does it make sense?

As a player running around through this "complex" all I would be thinking about is "oh look! Another set of stairs to run up;" that's the ONLY eye-catcher in this area that I can see from the screen shot. But let's say for example in cs_militia: you run in from the back door, and you walk into the kitchen. You can logically deduce why there is an extra room off to one side: "oh, well that must have been the dining room for the family who lived here" and "oh? where does this door lead? Why it's the garage! How cool! The car's are even still parked here!" Those spaces qualify as rooms because they have purpose beyond the scope of just game play. I suppose that sums up my argument here.

Basically, you just need to prove through clever use of geometry and props why those spaces need to be there.

It's getting there though. Keep it up!

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Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202

Basically, you just need to prove through clever use of geometry and props why those spaces need to be there.

Thats what i needed to hear. I just had a small opiffiny. In that case i have 3 rooms i need to work on. Thank You!!

but then again look at dust2 :rolleyes:

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Reality has become a commodity.

I've been riding my map of boring walls and shapes for the past few weeks. It's a slow proses. This room is in dire need of better lighting but it's a good start. The upper part of this room is a bombing zone.

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Reality has become a commodity.

Wow this map looks amazing. I love the layout. When do you think it will be realeased? Do you always work in dev textures then go to nice textures?

PM me.

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-Define Misfit.

I never expected to read a comment like that after all this time. Thank you.

The layout has changed. If your interested in looking, hear is a link for the most recent compile of my map. http://files.filefront.com/cs+Substructure+beta1cbsp/;8972668;/fileinfo.html

As for a release date... I have put the project on hiatus. A decent portion of the map needs some reworking, and i fear trying to light it. Still, until someone tels me other wise i know the layout works. I'll take a look at it again after i finish (or abandon) my next project.

Hear is what you can expect in the download.

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Reality has become a commodity.

it looks amazing, keep it up. Hopefully you will realease a full and final version one day. Good Luck! :biggrin:

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-Define Misfit.

This is looking good..

I am thinking of renting or buying a server to host CS:S maps on.. maybe I can use it for Snarkpit maps?

EDIT: end of intro chapter.

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Reality has become a commodity.

I just can't let this one go.







Keep in mind many of the models are not showing because the last 2 were taken form out side the map.

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Reality has become a commodity.

Looks good. The only thing that bothers me, visually, are the ceilings. They either need support beams or something else. Maybe a little more lighting variation as well.

I'm no expert on CS layouts. Looks a little too spacious, though. I'm sure you could cut a lot and make the movement tighter and more focused on the main areas. Like in the second pic, that doorway on the lower left corner of the screen seems like it's over-connecting the hallways. In fact the whole lower corridor there looks like it cut be cut! You could keep the orange column thingies and use them somewhere else. Nothing would be lost.

That's just a random example for what I mean with "cutting" the layout, though.

I'd try and compress this map's layout to make it (a) more structured and (b) easier to finish! :wink:

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Why snark works.

You think the ceilings need more support huh... Well, i had considered looping off that dome thing on top of my columns and extending it to the ceiling. If others fell the same way i'll do it.
Yes, the lighting need some variation.

I seriously thought about how things would work if i cut out that whole bottom section. I was staring at that middle screen for half a hour and i came to two conclusions.
One:
I never like that junction. You would walk through the door way and run right into the column (one on the furthest left). I never like the idea of having a hallway with 2 door set up like that ether. The solution i came up was this.


Two:
I'm not a expert on cs layouts ether. Id say all together i only have less than 200 hours playing time in CS. If i were to remove the bottom section then it would cause 2 choke points, for witch the only way around is to loop the map. You might be right Reaper but i think i need more opinions.

I need more opinions from people who play A LOT of Counter Strike. I'm planing on posting this on a different site. Most likely Mapcore (Does TWHL have more cs players??). It should be refreshing to hear opinions from people who don't all ready know i don't have any talent.

Thank you for your opinions Reaper. I really do appreciate them.

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Reality has become a commodity.

Much to your disappointment, it's not dead yet.

I hated doing it but i got rid of the bathroom. In all the time I spent testing it I never had much play in that room.

I'v been working a lot so i don't have a tweaked Nav mesh so I wont post a link yet but if I find the time this week i'll post one in case want to check it out.

Hear are 2 screens of my map that I liked. I'll post ones detailing the layout when I leave a DL link.

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Reality has become a commodity.

My first impression looking at the screenshots was that the map really needed more detail. And that's when I still mistakenly thought it was a CS map and not a CS:S map!

The brushes you are using are mostly very squarish and simple, and it's right angles everywhere. Don't be afraid to add more general brush detail to supports, ceilings, etc.- or to break walls into multiple brushes so that you can use multiple layers of textures on them. This is a Source map, you aren't constrained in the same way you are in a HL1 map. And even for a HL1 map this would be too simple.

It looks very clean and for a map like this the layout is critical- so it's very good that you have focused on the gameplay aspect first. But now it's time to go back and go crazy making it pretty! Also, think about what this place really IS so that you have a better sense of what to put in it detail-wise and what functions the different rooms have on a practical basis. Storage? Labs? Offices? Security rooms? Cells? Making them varied in this way also helps teams communicate- "I'm in the prison area" is easier to get than "I'm in the sort of rectangular room near the stairs".

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Action Half-Life - <A HREF="http://distraction-mod.com" TARGET="_blank">Distrac

Thank you for your comments Jinx but, what screens are you looking at? I noticed you posted in the wrong chapter.

Much has changed sense my last posted screens. I post plenty when I get a chance to leave a download link.

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Reality has become a commodity.

These two look better, though I would avoid crates/boxes as much as possible. The first of the 3 in the map's profile is a bit better than earlier, but still feels sort of empty/open and really needs more lighting variation (feels almost fullbright).

I'm swamped with work right now but I'll try to take a look in-game when I have time. It looks pretty nice :biggrin:

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Action Half-Life - <A HREF="http://distraction-mod.com" TARGET="_blank">Distrac

The Download is borked. can I get a copy of this.. or tell me where it is hosted so I can go run around in it?

Try this link, Muhnay:

http://files.filefront.com/cs+Substructure+beta1cbsp/;8972668;/fileinfo.html

Thank You Sir.. that one worked. I will post some thoughts on the map when I am done running around in it.

Sorry i haven't posted in a while!!

Any link out there is extremely old. Much has changed. I'll post a new link tonight. I just have to close the map and compile it.

Thank you for showing interest.

Hear is the most up to date copy of de_Substructure.

http://files.filefront.com/de+Substructure+beta1rar/;11528512;/fileinfo.html

Im going to make a few form post in the general section and then add a new chapter (if there still are chapters) with new screens.

[URL=http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beta1rg3.jpg][IMG]http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1263/beta1rg3.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img513.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beta2pv1.jpg][IMG]http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/3035/beta2pv1.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beta3zd3.jpg][IMG]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8672/beta3zd3.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beta4av5.jpg][IMG]http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/6706/beta4av5.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beta5me2.jpg][IMG]http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9321/beta5me2.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beta6zp2.jpg][IMG]http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/9610/beta6zp2.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beta7oc8.jpg][IMG]http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6086/beta7oc8.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beta8tm4.jpg][IMG]http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/3935/beta8tm4.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beta9ni1.jpg][IMG]http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/7461/beta9ni1.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beta10ny3.jpg][IMG]http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/2955/beta10ny3.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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Reality has become a commodity.

There are aspects about this map I really like. The scale, it feels deep and a bit star warsy. Remember the game Star Wars Jedi Knight.. there were palces like this you had to cross in order to get to the next part.. so I like that... the sewage area is well done. The things that kinda bug me is it feels like a slap together.. bits from this idea and that all tied into one.. I would like to see this retextured as a orange box again... when I first saw it it had the look and feel of a Death Match level.. and not so much a bomb/defusal. I have not seen the latest update you posted above.. so I maybe way off on the texture thing now. Also when I think of substructures, this feels a bit open and airy.. not enough pipes and stuff filling in the areas.. like in a good spiderman comic when he fights the croc dude in the sewers.. it had elements like this but there were things going on.. there were areas you wanted to go hey whats up there.. even though you could not get there from here. I like when maps have those areas.. makes me feel more immursed. Well all in all its a great map, and its something I dont know if I am able to do yet.. so kudos to you. Keep up the great work!

Here is Japans Sewage system.. maybe it will help inspire you somemore..

http://www.crookedbrains.net/2007/07/japanese-sewers-photo-gallery-first.html

Man, this map is really moving along (albeit at a slow pace since the last update!) But there are A LOT of good changes happening here, so I suppose that makes up for the long wait. ;). Having downloaded the latest version, I see you've completely revamped the interior for the surrounding rooms around the main shaft.

The Sewer area still looks really good since last time, did you update that part too?

I wonder what the floating brick blocks will become? :P.

Anyhow, the rooms are a lot better outfitted for describing the setting. Tables and chairs are a plus. I also like the window in the 'break room.'

Here is where my criticism comes in though :D:
[list][*]With the size of some of these rooms it is still very hard to believe that they are underground. Why are they so big?
[*]The main chamber feels very, VERY empty. I know this is still a WIP, but in order for this map to shine, the central shaft needs to be outfitted with some awesome visuals. Or more interesting obstacles. You will want to take screenshots of the shaft and have people recognize your map by those alone. I propose falling water from pipes, and loud, very loud rushing water sounds. Is this a water facility of some sort? If so, make it sound like one; it is very cold down there and uninteresting audibly.
[*]For these operating rooms you've built, they feel very 'forced' to me; I'll explain:

The console walls and 'columns' are very interesting, but the place is too 'clean' for the whole room to have nothing but those buttons and pipes in there. The room has tile floor and concrete walls. Is there a way you could better 'fill-in' these rooms with more 'activity?'

[*]When I was playing with bots, I felt that the terrorists spawned too closely to the bombsites. I played about 10 rounds as both T and CT, and it was a lot harder as CT because the Terrorists would arrive very quickly to the bombsites. But that is just a nitpicky statement.[/list]

So, beyond just those, this map is doing very, VERY well. I enjoyed playing through with the bots very much, and I think you got your gameplay and layout down pretty solid, I just think the visuals need some more work. And the core scene (the main shaft) could use A LOT more detail. But other than that, this map is on its way to becoming something spectacular. I'm glad you're still working on it. hope you finish it soon!

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Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202

Sorry for that late reply's! Work sucks...

Muhnay, thanks for the comments. I have been working on adding more pipes and such. I think you would be surprised by how much the map has change form the version you ran around. I invite you to take a look.

Riven, ya iv been really lazy when it come to mapping lately. I haven't really worked on it much in months.
The floating bricks are there to block the view in between particular areas to keep it from becoming a sniping fest. They will eventually become a mass of pipes hanging form the ceiling. That's the idea at least. Iv yet to make them. Once those are finished that should be all the decoration the central shaft needs.
The operating rooms are bare right now. Adding more crap to them are on my list of things to do.
Before i deleted the bathroom and moved the stair case behind the cafeteria the map was more balanced. Rounds between the bots always came out about even. Now, with the new layout, the stair case is much harder to push through and the T's can just camp the ship out of it. I'll be making some minor changes to correct the problem.

A day or two ago i fired up CS:S for the first time in a while and ran around my map and made a check list room by room of all the things i have to do to complete the map. Using every inch of space i filled five pages. So i have some work to do, but i have it all planed out so it shouldn't (SHOULDN'T) take to long.

Thank your for the comments Muhnay and Riven. I'll keep everyone posted on any changes.

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Reality has become a commodity.