Motivation and the ability to stick with it.

Motivation and the ability to stick with it.

Re: Motivation and the ability to stick with it. Posted by Condus Mundus on Sun Jan 2nd 2011 at 7:29pm
Condus Mundus
169 posts
Posted 2011-01-02 7:29pm
169 posts 118 snarkmarks Registered: Apr 24th 2010 Occupation: Thinking up random profile details Location: Forty minutes south of Nowhere.
What techniques do you use to stick with one map and not fill your hard-drive with wonderfully detailed fragments?

How do you keep yourself motivated to keep mapping when a new idea springs up?

I personally have trouble with both of these things and am curious as to what the community thinks about these points.

This is not game nor engine specific so please comment regardless if you can hold one of these points with one game/engine but not with another.
Now remember kids. Asking questions is a good way to get censored by the government.
Re: Motivation and the ability to stick with it. Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jan 2nd 2011 at 9:06pm
Orpheus
13860 posts
Posted 2011-01-02 9:06pm
Orpheus
member
13860 posts 2024 snarkmarks Registered: Aug 26th 2001 Occupation: Long Haul Trucking Location: Long Oklahoma - USA
First off, this conversation has arisen many times in the past. Someone with the time might try to seek them out and post links here in this thread leading back to them. Truly I dunno if this is possible since Larchy's search doesn't work as well as Leps did but I am sure it is satisfactory enough. Sadly I dunno what keywords to use since as I said its not quite as good. However if you could find them you'd be able to get a feel for how this issue was handled back when way more "wonderfully detailed fragments" were even being made. (and possible weren't used)

Now what I believe. If the fragment has any value at all, as a level editor it should be a simple matter of incorporating them cohesively into a usable map. What might help is if you made them into a prefab and allowed others to use them. Course that might prevent you from using them as well as you might have but at least someone would benefit. Also, ALL of our coop maps are made out of.... "Wonderfully detailed fragments". All that was needed for those projects was a reliable member to form them into a usable mass. Lastly, most of the fragments might have been nothing more than practice sessions. You might have to accept that in the end. You might not be able to form them into anything usable. Hell, you might not be able to make a usable map ever but the satisfaction of mapping would still be there.

Anywho's that's my view.

The best things in life, aren't things.
Re: Motivation and the ability to stick with it. Posted by Condus Mundus on Sun Jan 2nd 2011 at 9:41pm
Condus Mundus
169 posts
Posted 2011-01-02 9:41pm
169 posts 118 snarkmarks Registered: Apr 24th 2010 Occupation: Thinking up random profile details Location: Forty minutes south of Nowhere.
Thank you for posting. I realize now I may have been a bit confusing in my first post but I mean for this to be a discussion and not a question-answer thread.

Just to clear things up.
Now remember kids. Asking questions is a good way to get censored by the government.
Re: Motivation and the ability to stick with it. Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jan 2nd 2011 at 9:55pm
Orpheus
13860 posts
Posted 2011-01-02 9:55pm
Orpheus
member
13860 posts 2024 snarkmarks Registered: Aug 26th 2001 Occupation: Long Haul Trucking Location: Long Oklahoma - USA
I uh.. I...

I discussed. What do you want, for me to begin a sentence and have another member finish it?

I dunno what else to add. How do I motivate myself to complete a map. I completed 9 maps and had about 100 fragments as you say of other things. My motivation was the interaction that Snarkpit used to have. I finished them because they spur'd me into doing so. There was a time when there would be 20 bits posted daily. More sometimes if the map was nearing completion. That's a powerful incentive to map. Course, Its not true for everyone. People like Scary Jeff never did finish one I don't think, but he was one hell of a motivator for another to do one. I think that the best motivation is others doing the motivating. Plain and simple.

The best things in life, aren't things.
Re: Motivation and the ability to stick with it. Posted by Condus Mundus on Sun Jan 2nd 2011 at 11:10pm
Condus Mundus
169 posts
Posted 2011-01-02 11:10pm
169 posts 118 snarkmarks Registered: Apr 24th 2010 Occupation: Thinking up random profile details Location: Forty minutes south of Nowhere.
Slaps forehead Sorry, I didn't mean to be even more confusing. It seems that I have misunderstood your post's tone and you have misunderstood my clarification comment. I only meant to make sure anyone, including you, understood my intentions for this thread. Because of parts of your post filtered through my out of date vocabulary and word definitions I misinterpreted your comment to be a finishing answer to a question I meant to have multiple answers to. You post was exactly what I wanted in this thread except for that, so I thought I would point out the exception and we could move on.

Now I wish I hadn't said anything at all.
Now remember kids. Asking questions is a good way to get censored by the government.
Re: Motivation and the ability to stick with it. Posted by Orpheus on Sun Jan 2nd 2011 at 11:30pm
Orpheus
13860 posts
Posted 2011-01-02 11:30pm
Orpheus
member
13860 posts 2024 snarkmarks Registered: Aug 26th 2001 Occupation: Long Haul Trucking Location: Long Oklahoma - USA
Condus Mundus said:
Now I wish I hadn't said anything at all.
Dood. Don't get so worried. With very few exceptions, Snarkpit doesn't get overly upset with forum posts gone awry.

The best things in life, aren't things.
Re: Motivation and the ability to stick with it. Posted by Condus Mundus on Mon Jan 3rd 2011 at 1:03am
Condus Mundus
169 posts
Posted 2011-01-03 1:03am
169 posts 118 snarkmarks Registered: Apr 24th 2010 Occupation: Thinking up random profile details Location: Forty minutes south of Nowhere.
Well anyway, back on topic then. :computer:
Now remember kids. Asking questions is a good way to get censored by the government.
Re: Motivation and the ability to stick with it. Posted by Campaignjunkie on Mon Jan 3rd 2011 at 6:08am
Campaignjunkie
1309 posts
Posted 2011-01-03 6:08am
1309 posts 329 snarkmarks Registered: Feb 12th 2002 Occupation: Student Location: West Coast, USA
Make. smaller. maps.
Re: Motivation and the ability to stick with it. Posted by Le Chief on Mon Jan 3rd 2011 at 8:13am
Le Chief
2605 posts
Posted 2011-01-03 8:13am
Le Chief
member
2605 posts 937 snarkmarks Registered: Jul 28th 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia
If you find that you keep losing interest in your levels before you finish them then it means there is more room for your enthusiasm/approach to grow and mature.

I used to have the same issue and in hindsight, I think it was mostly because my ideas were too ambitious and I approached them poorly. When a level reached a certain milestone and it came time to adding in the small details or some other aspect of the level it just wasn't as exciting as the bigger picture and I'd develop an interest in another idea.

I find that when you "wonder" around in Hammer as well it means you haven't really thought about the level enough and it's a way you can lose momentum and motivation when you make your level.

These days though I find that I think about a level a lot more and develop that idea in my head and as a result I'm super excited about it and I know exactly what I'm doing the whole time and it's a really efficient and fun development process in all aspects.

One thing that personally boosted motivation for me was watching behind the scenes development of games material. It reminded me how much I wanted to be like them and then made me jump straight back into hammer/3ds max/photoshop and I felt a bit closer to being like them! :geek:
Aaron's Stuff
Re: Motivation and the ability to stick with it. Posted by G4MER on Mon Jan 3rd 2011 at 1:18pm
G4MER
2460 posts
Posted 2011-01-03 1:18pm
G4MER
floaty snark rage
member
2460 posts 360 snarkmarks Registered: Sep 6th 2003 Location: USA
I keep all my fragments, and work on them when another starts to bore me. If I have a large project I am doing and I get tired of it.. I stick it aside for a while and do something else, and return to it later. Or if I have a community/clan map in the works, I get the feed back from them and tackle what they need done to get the map to the standard they are looking for.
Re: Motivation and the ability to stick with it. Posted by Orpheus on Mon Jan 3rd 2011 at 1:35pm
Orpheus
13860 posts
Posted 2011-01-03 1:35pm
Orpheus
member
13860 posts 2024 snarkmarks Registered: Aug 26th 2001 Occupation: Long Haul Trucking Location: Long Oklahoma - USA
Campaignjunkie said:
Make. smaller. maps.
jumps up and down shouting

I KNOW YOU!!!
Good to see you CJ. :)

Its really ironic. This is a part of my interview theory. ~o)
Speaking of which, you're posting one, right?

The best things in life, aren't things.
Re: Motivation and the ability to stick with it. Posted by Condus Mundus on Tue Jan 4th 2011 at 1:00pm
Condus Mundus
169 posts
Posted 2011-01-04 1:00pm
169 posts 118 snarkmarks Registered: Apr 24th 2010 Occupation: Thinking up random profile details Location: Forty minutes south of Nowhere.
Thank you all for posting. I have taken most of these to heart in the hopes I can finally finish at least one of my many mapping projects. I hope this helps other people around here as well, seeing as there's a lot of good advice so far.
Now remember kids. Asking questions is a good way to get censored by the government.
Re: Motivation and the ability to stick with it. Posted by Riven on Sun Jan 9th 2011 at 8:04pm
Riven
1640 posts
Posted 2011-01-09 8:04pm
Riven
Wuch ya look'n at?
super admin
1640 posts 1266 snarkmarks Registered: May 2nd 2005 Occupation: Architect Location: Austin, Texas, USA
If you're anything like me, you're a procrastinator, and a bad one at that! You're also a perfectionist, and are very good about making something look impressive and fun to look and play in, but it is a very, VERY big deal to have to start ANYTHING creative, because you know the time and commitment involved that has to go into such a project. So, in hopes of finding further motivation to go on once you've started the project, you'll begin anyway. You have it planned to a T, or at least have a really good idea about how the whole thing will pan out. You've even set deadlines for yourself because you know how bad you are otherwise.

In the end though, you lose motivation. The map gets stale to look at, and it's no longer fun to keep going. You know what has to be done, but it's sooo monotonous, and too much work you want to commit to something that maybe no one will play! -or will simply take way too long to finish within the coming months. Perhaps you hit a brick wall in editing, that you can't seem to find an answer for, and the work-around is too daunting to commit towards. These are all unfortunate realities in the mapping community that amateur mappers face every time they sit to map, whether they have outside motivating forces (a mod team, critiques, playtests), or simply are appeased with just showing screenshots to get nuggets of feedback to go on. Mapping is difficult to complete!
In order to be successful, you have to admit there are boring parts about the job. It's not all daisies and roses through a field of awesomeness; you're gonna have to put up with a great deal of frustration and boredom to overcome your goals. Don't place your expectations high in your design; accomplish what you can, and make goals you're unsure you can do as optional. For example: When designing the SnarkPit Compilation Map, I made the train optional cause I wasn't sure if I could do it. But the rest of the map came together just fine. Even optimized it well, but the train is still missing, but that's ok for now.
User posted image
A plan never fails. Having a plan goes a LONG long way in helping you divvy up tasks and goals. A calendar may not always be a good solution to drive a mapper, (unless you're employed), but at least a simple list of "To Dos" can help things move along. In fact, this list would be imperative nearing the completion of a map. While playtesting, make a running list of everything you see that needs to be fixed, completed, or added. This helps focus your attention on the most important tasks.

Slow and steady wins the race.... It's ok to break ground fast, because you're excited to see this thing become a reality, but planning again can go a long way. And planning something should never be rushed. Go at it as fast as you'd like, but all the better if you have a plan on what to do. Research, research, research. Always look for precedents. Play maps that have been successful before you, and take screenshots of them. Start an image folder of level precedents and real world locations for inspiration. Define what you want to do, and the rest will be derived from that. You can't go wrong relying on previous success to establish your own. You can only be just as good, or better!

In today's world it's not necessarily about skills or talent. Everyone has talent, and some are indeed better than others, but a lot of the content produced out there is not talent-driven, it's motivation-driven. You probably are a better mapper than some of those guys already working in a studio, but the difference here is, they have much more motivation than you; after all, they made it there, and you haven't. Also too, it's not about having the resources, but being resourceful. The challenge really is about how to find motivation, and being able to ask and seek that is the stepping stone in admitting the true qualities of a successful level designer. Your work may not be the best, but that's ok, completing it is far more telling and meaningful to a possible employer, than something beautiful and unfinished. No body wants to see something unfinished (unless you're on an editing site :D). So let that drive your ambition. Finishing something is ALL that matters. -And finishing it within a reasonable amount of time, is the true talent you have to discover by experience alone.

With knowledge and skills like that, you can make whatever you want!
Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202