Thanto

Orph, it is up to me and me alone to decide who judges it really, isn't it. And to be honest, I haven't even thought about it yet, so there's no point in s**tstirring just yet! Back on topic please or I'll just delete replies.

All the food was ruined ffs Myrk... jesus, be a little more responsible! :biggrin:

Leperous said:
Orph, it is up to me and me alone to decide who judges it really, isn't it. And to be honest, I haven't even thought about it yet, so there's no point in s**tstirring just yet! Back on topic please or I'll just delete replies.

mmm i see why it's a democracy ruled by a dictator :rolleyes:

if both of you would step aside for a minute, you will recall i had no part of that scene, i am an unbiased viewer, who has every freaking right to say any damned thing i want, as long as its inoffensive in nature.

do you both realize, you both just threatened me?

i think, neither one of you should be judge, you as owner may assign them, but have no input, considering the prize is only recognition.

my advice, think next time before you post... poor advice from me, the forums least likely to think, but in this one case.. you are both wrong.

gwil counseled me when i was mod, that the forum came first.. tis the reason i would never remain mod.. maybe you should both consider strongly.. how badly you just put your foot in it.

:biggrin: Back to the map!

keep that pic dave, i wanna use it each time an admin screws the dog

It's in my pit, won't be going anywhere soon seeing as there're plenty of opportunities to post it. :biggrin:

Myrk- said:
I can see you as the type of person who takes petty things to the grave, like accidently leaving the fridge open whilst pouring a glass of OJ... :rolleyes:

What the hell? You're supposed to say that to me when I bring it up. :razz:

Back to the map, those textures look sweet and really compliment the arcitecture. How much did it cost to get Cass on board?

Vash had to eat his legs and regurgitate them :razz:

Really nice work, I like the modifications and Cassius's textures compliment everything perfectly. I'm sure most of these comments are just going to be pointing out things you are already planning to change / work on, but I'll post them anyway...



Your getting this in quite a few places - lots of face splitting due to your stairs. I suggest you run a diagonal world brush ramp up underneath the stairs that the side walls meet, and make the stairs func_walls.



Your missing the little lights in this one.



CJ suggested you put a trim around the top of this brick wall, and I agree. When you can see the top texture it looks ok, but when your below the top line it just ends and looks awkward. You may want to just put a thing concrete "cap" along it.



I think this looked better without the navigation bar.



Because of all the spinkification that Cassius's textures exude, these step textures now look absolutely bollocks. I suggest these are a priority for replacement :biggrin:



You have a trim on the other side of this wall, but not this one - I think you should have it on both sides.



This is just screaming out for lights of some sort, but then I'm sure thats on your to do list.



Maybe lights on all 4 sides would be better? If you want to keep 2, I think they should be in the corners to keep the room symmetrical.



Nice effort on breaking up the flat topped upper area, looks good. I still think it needs more though, just something unreachable above the top line.

rocks rocks rocks [/subliminal]



I think this room could use a hanging platform or something. I think Myrk suggested something like this earlier, and I think with the new access to above the skylight its quite important you put something to drop onto. Something like in the UT2003 map "dm-compressed" could be cool, here is a screenshot of the platform hanging from the ceiling...

http://www.ngi.it/images/upload/compressed.jpg

Also in this room, the ceiling structure is texture very "techy", while the rest of the map is now extremely industrial and dirty. The two clash quite badly, but I'm sure cass is on the case for replacements already!

Awesome feedback again Reno.

1. Very good idea, I'll get right on it. :smile:

2. Well spotted.

3. I hadn't really done any work on the inside recently, a concrete trim is great, I didn't like the black texture there.

4. Cass's fault! :biggrin: There's a better image on the 404 page, the old one I had has the legs cut off. :sad: Do you think it works well as transparent?

5. Cass has been ordered to make step textures.

6. Trim shall be added!

7. Lights shall also be added.

8. I was thinking of taking up the suggestion of turning that into water to curb fall damage.

9. Trust me, I want to add rocks, lots of them! I wanted to see how the r's were first though. I think I'll be able to get away with a few.

10 Can't decide between the platform or the water! :biggrin:

Thanks a million bud, really appreciate it. :smile:

scurries away to fix errors

I agree about the old/tech thing... that trim texture is just so damn versatile though! :biggrin:

ReNo said:
Also in this room, the ceiling structure is texture very "techy", while the rest of the map is now extremely industrial and dirty. The two clash quite badly, but I'm sure cass is on the case for replacements already!

In my opinion, this is the best part of the map - it's what makes it dynamic. A very futuristic and advanced style structure built upon a very old factory. I would prefer this a thousand times over just factory or just tech. Consider it a surreal piece.

Well, its your guys' map, so if its what your aiming for then thats
cool, but I think you should at least try and smooth over the
transition a little. Its VERY sudden at the moment, straight from aged
and manky concrete wall to an near untouched metal ceiling, and to me
it looks very jarring and fake.

Come to think of it, I think the problem might just be the texture and
not the industrial/techy change - your new textures are detailed and
"deep", whereas the shaderlab majestic base metal is a bit less
realistic. If you made some techy textures that have the same level of
detail as your industrial stuff, the transition would look much better
I think.

I think you hit the nail on the head about the shaderlab textures. :smile:

P.s: Check your pm's cass.

Since I couldn't find a new download link this may have been addressed or not even present, but I think I saw a little arcitectural niggle that always bothers me in my own maps. The supports you have I'm guessing around the perimeter of that hallway opposite the building have part of them set at a 45 degree angle. It looks like you have the 45 degree angle brush touching the 0 and 90 degree brushes at a 90 or 0 degree face respectively when it would look better if it was like this:



You probably don't give a crap, and it really makes no difference in the end, so go ahead and ignore this suggestion. Stuff like this is why I take forever with maps...

One of my little niggles too, I try to avoid that as much as possible. Were these the pillars you were talking about? Your description was a little vague. :smile:



Thanks. :smile:

ReNo said:

I may have been bamboozled by this picture. Oh well. :biggrin:

Might look wierd in that pic because of my FOV, its at 112, so some things might look distorted.

Texture errors I saw in a quick runthrough.



Here I would try to get the support texture with the black sides to extend on the indent like this:



This is a clipping or compiling error of some sort. In this picture I'm standing on thin air on an invisible ledge. It extends out to about where I'm standing in a triangle shape. You can reach it by jumping from the tech ceiling area. I came across this same thing in the snarkpitcrew map and the only solution I found was to delete and redo the brush.

Seems like all I'm good for these days is finding texture and clipping errors in other people's maps. I've gotten more than enough experience :biggrin:

Yeah, I apparently can't edit my post, so that part where I just trailed off up there about making the indent looking like this? This is what I meant:

Great stuff. I'd spotted the aaatrigger texture already, and that doorway now has a frame, but I missed the others. :smile:

Good idea with the indent, looks really well and I wasn't sure what to do with it.

I'll go about fixing that clipping error too.

Cheers bud, appreciate it! :smile:

1^st off, i know i have a dated version so overlook any comments i make that have been addressed.. 2^nd i have not kept up with this thread, cause i wanna form my own opinions on this map, so if i repeat a comment, just chalk it up to two sets of eyes that have the same viewpoint.. 3rd my comments are 100% opinion, they do not reflect on the map as a work of art, they are only things i would do, or not do differently.. it does not in any way signify errors that need fixed..



this sign, it glows to bright, it makes it seem blurry for doing so, tone it down a bit.. also it would look much better IMO if it flashed on/off like a broken pc monitor perhaps..



this nice looking hall with its decorated ceiling, loses its meaning with all the same textures being inside, add a light strip perhaps along the insider edge of the depression on top..



same hall, just around the first bend.. way to dark.. the light strip i mentioned could reduce this..



this area, way to dark, could be improved by either, 1) pointing the light environ down, or 2) increasing the minimum light level of the map in the properties... also, the wire on top, would look mucho better as a chain link fence.. using the grate texture ruins the effect IMO



the center of this screen is the upper level of the area.. an overlook of some sort would really improve the looks..



this depression and corresponding ceiling, look odd.. the angle is just to steep.. reducing both by half would still give you your architecture, without looking silly for being present.. also something needs to be in the bottom.. a grate, some water or perhaps a drain hole..



all this fabulous architecture, lost in the gloom.. increasing the overall light levels may reduce this issue, but more light fixtures sure couldn't hurt.



a pet peeve of mine.. lights that look glued onto the wall always annoyed me when i map, or view in another's map.. sadly i did it way to often.. must be one of the reasons i dislike my own works..



this grate, and all the rest for that matter.. lower them so they are not flush with the surrounding terrain.. same with the under side of the ramps you can walk under.. make the area they cover look like a frame.. being flush ruins the effect.

the map is to new to find true faults yet.. i will do a proper critique when it approaches completion..

nice job guys..

We've been kind of shunning the upstairs hallway - not so much potential for prettyness as some of the other areas. As a matter of fact, we've barely touched it.

The middle hall is also a tough spot, as it is built at a 45 degree angle and is a center of r_speed traffic to boot... it would be tough to figure out a system where the hall could look good and still be blocking VIS.

i feared i overstepped.. i know Dave saw my little pre-critique, and not so much as a f**kyou in passing..

tis why i don't do as many as before.. its gotten to where i fear the author will scrap maps on my comments..

i think i will wait till its much closer to release, before i do a full critique.

Not to fear Orph, I and A_S have quite a bit of confidence in this one.

Heh sorry Jon, just had a quick look through it before I was interrupted. I'd hardly take offence to some light criticisms, that's absurd. :smile:

A lot of the stuff you mentioned is still under construction, and I agree with most of your concerns. Expect to see a modified version soon. Thanks for the comments! :smile:

i wasn't expecting thanx.. the job is of my choosing,and one i truly enjoy, but when you see and know that your post was read, and nothing is posted in return... well you get scared.

i do anyways.

i still think it best if i wait till its closer to complete, your track record for finished products not withstanding Dave.. i am not as confident in you, as Cass is..

i have seen your work for a long time now, many of your projects could have seen release, you scraped them all. if you don't understand my hesitancy.. I'm sorry.

My track record is abysmal but I assure you this most certainly is being released. Even if I backed out Cass could finish it off in about an hour. :smile:

Alien_Sniper said:
My track record is abysmal but I assure you this most certainly is being released. Even if I backed out Cass could finish it off in about an hour. :smile:

i hate to be a prude, buts a bit farther away than a single hour.. cass's release record is about on par with yours

glad to hear it ol friend.. its about time you got your feet wet..

Stop being a doubting Thomas! :smile:

Alien_Sniper said:
Stop being a doubting Thomas! :smile:

you only say that cause you care..

/runs away giggling

I find your lack of faith disturbing, lord Orpheus - while my and A_S' output, even in total, is somewhat less than prodigious, the map is almost finished as it is, and quite solid even in its current form.

By the way, my name is Tom.

Cassius said:
I find your lack of faith disturbing, lord Orpheus -

do you now..

well the faith you speak of is not directed at dave, its directed at me, you are just interpreting it backward..

i have known dave for 5+ years perhaps, have seen all his works to date, and each time i comment on it... it disappears.

i have lost faith in my ability to reach all mappers in time to salvage their maps.

anywho's, i am committed now, i commented now lets see the fruition of this thing :smile:

Are you somehow suggesting your harsh, unforgiving map comments have bruised and shattered my self confidence so much I haven't been able to release any maps? Oh Jon, you are the living end! :biggrin:

Alien_Sniper said:
Oh Jon, you are the living end! :biggrin:

remind me again, why i keep you around..

You simply can't resist my saucy pm's. :wink:

Alien_Sniper said:
You simply can't resist my saucy pm's. :wink:

GOAT f**kING?

bumps

well after a saucy session of goat, hows this map coming along dave? cass?

It's not. It's on hiatus for the moment. I have exams up to the 21^st. Work will resume then, don't you worry. :smile:

Alien_Sniper said:
It's not. It's on hiatus for the moment. I have exams up to the 21<SUP>st</SUP>. Work will resume then, don't you worry. :smile:

cool, my B-Day is the 22^nd.. you may begin then and celebrate both :biggrin:

Oh I'll be celebrating alright, you can count on that. :biggrin:

Orpheus said:
bumps

well after a saucy session of goat,

Oh, so saucy.

Anyway, I should have my real computer back by then, so I can actually do more than move two brushes in the space of two days. /me slaps laptop

Cassius said:

Orpheus said:
bumps

well after a saucy session of goat,

Oh, so saucy.

its an insiders joke.. dave sends me photo's of goat sex periodically..

notices crowds reaction

guess you gotta be into goats to understand :biggrin:

A_S, the map so far looks good.... But...

I'm a little worried. Must of the maps that come out of the snarkpit appear to graphic show maps (No offense to anyone! really!). I kinda feel that your average HL player isn't going to be TO concerened with graphics -- since most them are absolutely fine with playing the all time 1 texture map "kill box" :biggrin:

Dedicated server runners out there are paying about 52 $ a month to run their public server. So naturally, they don't want to waste any money -- they are going to try and cram as many players into one map. So, they aren't going to want a small map.

From my playing experience as an HL player (not mapper), I tend to want nice big fat maps --- they have more replay value, they are funner, and there is generally more in-genious ways to get lost and explore the map :biggrin: So, when I play a small map, even though it graphically is brilliant, I play for 30 seconds, in the time walking the entire map, then setting it calmly aside in my maps folder to never play it again.

I think everyone here needs to not be so picky about each graphical flaw, and "how it doesn't look like an UT map". Focus more on a map that is simply fun to play, and won't be used up in 30 seconds. Design the maps as if they were single player maps -- naturally, you want all the map you can get into your map.

Remember: Valve releases God awful looking maps every patch, and cs and HL players just eat them right up. Probably because they're fun.

Just my /2 dollars...

Yippie Ki Yay!

G.Ballblue... servers tend to run maps that appeal to their audience, if yours is chosen, all well and good, but to try to be chosen is not a good enuff reason to attempt doing so.

make a map, that makes you happy, and allow others to decide if it plays well enuff to warrant server rotation time.

if i mapped, with the players in mind, i doubt i would be as successful as i am today.. some may consider that a boast, some might consider it over enthusiastic, most would consider it my biggest short coming.. but, i would chose to map no other way.

And for those of us planning to get into the industry, some game companies want nothing more than visuals. They'll happily take a good looking map over a well playing map, UT2k3 being the primary suspect here.

KingNic said:
And for those of us planning to get into the industry, some game companies want nothing more than visuals. They'll happily take a good looking map over a well playing map, UT2k3 being the primary suspect here.

Good point. I guess I'm the only game developer person in the entire world who wants to try to make games on their own when they learn how :/ Since I don't like making things that aren't exactly how I like it. (hence, from my experience, working with other people has been nothing but trouble to me :sad: )

Just my 2 cents... er, dollars...

Yippie Ki Yay!

DOH. That "Edit" bit on one of my previous post I said completely backwards and wrong. I meant that you should be mapping the way you want it. Just pretend I never put that little "edit" bit up there, I said it competely wrong.

Yippie Ki Yay!

Here's the fact: good custom maps, unless they are incorporated into mod downloads or put on very popular custom map servers (say, of Kustom Kettle caliber), they will not be played. And in any case, this is hardly the place for such a debate.

If all turns out bad and not a single one of the oh-so-elusive 'real' HL players touches it, consider it a mapper's map.