asb_blocke_alone

asb_blocke_alone

Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by BCL on Tue Jun 21st 2005 at 5:18pm
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Posted 2005-06-21 5:18pm
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This map is part of a 4 level adventure I am working on with 3 others. In each map you play a different character taking part in an assault on a Strider base. My map (asb_blocke_alone) is nearly done, and any comments would be appreciated. It can be downloaded, and there is still time to make any changes before our July release.

The map I posted here has no level transitions, so when its over a message simply tells you so.

BCL
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Natus on Tue Jun 21st 2005 at 5:34pm
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if you dont have an env_sun, get one, the last pic would be a lot cooler if the sun was popping out behind the cliff.

i dont have time to try it out now, but i will download it and give you some more feedback when i do.
Boo f**king Hoo
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Madedog on Tue Jun 21st 2005 at 6:19pm
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Hmm... looks cool, but, as NatUS, i don't have time right now to get it. Perhaps tomorrow, so I could also try it out.
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Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Finger on Wed Jun 22nd 2005 at 7:52am
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Hmm... wouldn't happen to be working with Drew Murray would ya? From Guildhall?
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by BCL on Wed Jun 22nd 2005 at 4:09pm
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Posted 2005-06-22 4:09pm
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Why yes I am. His map is the next one after mine (its exceptionally good too - especially like his Strider cinematics).

We're not sure when the last map will be finished, but we plan to host the entire set as a map pack when done.

You guys are right, I didn't use an env_sun in the map. It will definately add some visual appeal, and I will add it to the final build.

BCL
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Finger on Wed Jun 22nd 2005 at 5:13pm
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Posted 2005-06-22 5:13pm
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A certain resume and portfolio hit my desk a few weeks ago.... It had a nice 'Strider Base' map for me to look at. :biggrin:

I'll check out your map tonight, and give you some feedback.
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Finger on Thu Jun 23rd 2005 at 9:06am
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Posted 2005-06-23 9:06am
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Ok... I played it. Since we don't get many singleplayer maps around these parts, and I personally have kind of switched gears from deathmatch mapping, to singleplayer mapping recently... I'll give this as much attention as I can. Y

you asked for it :wink:
I had this same critique with Drews map. I understand that you are working within constraints - can't afford animated cutscenes, new characters, voice over..etc. I'm sure that you have a fairly short time period to complete this project.

That said, I really wish there was a way you guys could have presented the goals of the map a little more creatively. The text works (and I did like your camera pans over ther objectives)..but kind of immidiately breaks one of the golden rules of halflife - immersion. I know it would have taken alot of work to do otherwise, and this was probably the best solution.... so I'll turn a blind eye to it.

Ok, I'm going to quickly nail down the big problems I saw with the level.
  • Too much stop and go for an airboat level. I felt very confined at times.
  • Too many red valves to turn
  • Sometimes it felt like you were throwing everything you had at me..just for the sake of it.
  • Ammo and health seemed a little unbalanced.
Section 1...

I get the airboat, then immidiately drive into a setup where I am forced to get off. This was also akward, because I flew around the rim of that bowl, and right into the dropship. It might have been better to have the player start off on foot, walk into that whole setup, fight all the enemies, find the airboat in the shed, open the door.... THEN get on the water.

Section 2...

I get back in the airboat... drive a short ways...then it another door. (seeing a pattern here). I don't know why you picked an airboat section...maybe you are a glutton for punishment. This has got to be the hardest type of map to create, and get the pacing right. What it takes to really do this, is a TON of space...because you're eating up realestate twice as fast with such a speedy vehicle.

The whole 'fun factor' with vehicles is in moving fast, and controlling them. It would have been harder to design, but I wish there was a way you could have made the level some type of circular track, with the objective buildings lying radially along the outside or inside of this path. Some way, any way, to keep the player moving...fighting guys, until they decide to bank it, and hit thier objective. Like I said, though, this would be hard to do...but the result would be a much more fluid experience.

Anyway... I though section 2 could have used some explosive barrels, up where the combine are shooting behind the shield. Also, when I came up that ladder, a couple of combine were right on top of me withou me being able to see them. Maybe a couple of headcrabs would have been a more suitable surprise. I liked the mannable turret up there.. turrets are fun :smile:

Section3....

This was my favorite part. It felt like the most focused place in the game. It actually felt more like a finale, than the helicopter battle did. You really threw alot of enemies at me there, with just enough health to keep me very cautios. Those 2 gunships were a bitch to kill, and I would find combine sneaking up on me if I didn't watch it. I pretty much got pinned on the rear balcony, jumping in and out for ammo. Maybe the balcony could have been a bit wider..I got snagged there a few times.

I really liked the combine jeeps and guys hovering around them. It was a blast taking those things out with the rpg, and launching all the combine into ragdoll goodness from afar. The shooting gallery of combine on the rooftop was also nice....good for the xbow.

The 2 gunships was maybe a bit much. 1 gunship might be better. Like I said..this was such a big battle, it felt like a finale, and made the ending seem a little weak. You want to go out with a bang, if you can.

This is just a side note, and something you are probably aware of, but the weapons really seemed all neatly prepared for me. I just walked into hordes of ammo laying on the floor, and a few really powerful weapons just sitting there. It would have been better to spread these things out a little more. Maybe give the xbow a little sooner. Also, set the scene a little more, so you feel like this ammo and weaponry belongs there... make it feel more like a combine post? A couple of dead guys, still clinging to thier weapons? something.

Section 4....

More health... more space.

Seriously... put some floating breakable crates, with health in them right before the helicoper intro. I really needed full health for that battle. That sucker kicked my ass at least 5 times before I finally took him out. you should fill the player up with health, and give a few shields too.

The only way I could beat this guy, was to circle around that small space, trying to take cover when he opened fire. In a sense, the layout was effective, because i was able to use the environment, to beat the enemy. It was pretty cramped though.... could have used a bigger circuit, and a few more safe zones, or obstacles to put between you and the helicopter. The helicopter also drops bombs...which would have been nice to use, if the health was a little more plentiful.

The ending was fine. After the big battle wth the chopper, I was sort of relieved, to have a fairly easy fight against the combine. I liked the explosion, and all.

.....

Ok, I'm wiped out and need to get some sleep. If you like, I can go into more depth, and attach screenshots, for reference and all that jazz later.

I hope you take this critique the right way. I commend you kicking out such a fine map, and am sure that they will only get better and better. I am VERY happy to see people doing singleplayer mapping. It's a whole other ballgame, that takes more skill, practice, and patience, than you could imagine. Bravo!
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by BCL on Thu Jun 23rd 2005 at 8:05pm
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Posted 2005-06-23 8:05pm
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Thanks for the input, it definitely will be useful for finishing the level. You?re right, the airboat does eat up space fast ? without any obstacles you could travel my map in less than 2 minutes. I put the stop points in there to slow things up a bit, and then once I made them had so much fun putting enemies there I lost sight of the airboat speed factor. I?ll confess I made an airboat level because I was curious as to how it would work - though I learned it requires even more room than I first thought.

The intro was definitely not in the Half Life 2 style, but I couldn?t think of any other way of getting the point across. I think here the hardest part is getting some voice talent and recording it (I?m not sure you?d want to hear me, but I might try it anyway just to see how it works).

In Section 2 I could remove the gate and building with the machine gun. There could still be some combine around to shoot (easy prey for the airboat), but the area would not require stopping. I could still have a combine APC fire rockets from a distance, but now you would have a longer drive ? with maybe a ramp to jump over, before you got within range and could knock it out.

I agree that Section 3 could be easier (only one gunship is a good idea). I think the gunships are the primary headache here, and only using one would be better. There would still be plenty of enemy cannon fodder to have fun taking out, too.

I like the idea of destroyable crates before the helicopter ? definitely something I?m going to put in. The helicopter was much harder than I expected to implement. For some reason the helicopter could originally shoot through the tunnel entrance walls (made from displacement brushes). You would retreat back into the tunnel, and helicopter bullets would travel through the walls and hit you! I ended up using a lot of clip brushes (npc and clip all) to prevent the helicopter from shooting through the walls. Making the final helicopter area larger would help the playability, and I?ll look into it.

Thanks for taking the time to play it and post. The people I had play test the level gave excellent suggestions (like using the crossbow), but eventually everyone was so used to the map we ran out of ideas. It?s always good to have a fresh set of eyes play your map.

Regards
BCL
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Finger on Thu Jun 23rd 2005 at 9:46pm
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Posted 2005-06-23 9:46pm
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I wish you luck with the level... It means alot that you came here looking for feedback. I get my ass kicked daily by senior, more experienced designers. What doesn't kill you makes you smarter and stronger.

Good luck with your project, and be sure to post when its done..so we can get the full episode.
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Oberfeldwebel on Fri Jun 24th 2005 at 10:30pm
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Well, unfortunately I just found my mic broke the otherday. (Which was
a HUGE dissapointment when I found the substance team was looking for a
voice actor to do the Gman, which I'm able to do a really good
impression of.)

I'm thinking of buying a new one and I'd be glad to also do some voice work for your level if you needed it.

I'll download it and try it out right now. I'm actually VERY thirsty
for some good SP levels, especially now being on 56k, and would love to
support them in any way I can.

If you wish, you can IM me on AIM or your preferred messenger and I can
send you a few samples I've done. (though I only have very few, and
only one is recent but I feel its the best)
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Finger on Fri Jun 24th 2005 at 10:56pm
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I am actually very close to requesting some good voice talent from the community. I've recorded some stuff myself and am playing with modulating it to make it sound better. I'm not going for a recreation of any existing HL voice, just a good solid male voice for my singleplayer project. I may throw my 'script' up fairly soon, and I'll give you a holler when I do.
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Orpheus on Fri Jun 24th 2005 at 11:00pm
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Posted 2005-06-24 11:00pm
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I know someone with a voice you can use. :wink:

The best things in life, aren't things.
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Andrei on Fri Jun 24th 2005 at 11:03pm
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Posted 2005-06-24 11:03pm
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I've recorded some stuff myself and am playing with modulating it to make it sound better.
Ahh, what sound editor are you using?
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Dr Brasso on Fri Jun 24th 2005 at 11:12pm
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that had to be one of the most conciencious and forthright reviews ive heard for awhile.....any person with any amount of wisdom would look at this as a serious tutorial of sorts.....well done finger sir.... :wink:

i am really looking forward to the completion of this project because of this .... :biggrin:

Doc Brasso... :dodgy:

btw finger, liking the new cough job sir?....:lol

Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Finger on Sat Jun 25th 2005 at 1:52am
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Posted 2005-06-25 1:52am
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Orph - If you would like to give the vo a shot, I would be honored. I'll pm you about it, if you like.

Adrei - The only program I have is Soundforge, and I've only barely touched it... any good suggestions for alternate (free) program?

Doc.B - You should definately play BCL's singleplayer map. There are way too few singleplayer mappers in these parts...the ones who do stroll through deserve as much attention as we can give them.

Because of my job (Insomniac Games), I've become very focused on singleplayer mapping. It's a whole other world that offers an infinite amount of challenges and delights. Btw, the job is great. Insomniac just got nominated #3 best small/medium size company to work for (In America, I think). This is the first time a company in the game industry has received this award. It will be a year come September that I've been here, but it feels like a few months.
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Orpheus on Sat Jun 25th 2005 at 2:05am
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I would be proud.. gimme a yell.

No promises, I am not quite sure whats up yet :smile:

The best things in life, aren't things.
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Cassius on Sat Jun 25th 2005 at 5:45am
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Dr Brasso said:
that had to be one of the most conciencious and forthright reviews ive heard for awhile.....any person with any amount of wisdom would look at this as a serious tutorial of sorts.....well done finger sir.... :wink:
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Andrei on Sat Jun 25th 2005 at 9:56am
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Posted 2005-06-25 9:56am
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Andrei - The only program I have is Soundforge, and I've only barely
touched it... any good suggestions for alternate (free) program?
Well I have a free version of Audacity on my HDD. I used to have a
"raped" version of sound edit pro but it's in no way superior to
Audacity.
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Oberfeldwebel on Sun Jun 26th 2005 at 3:45am
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nod I can do any kind of voice you need, so no worries.
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by BCL on Wed Jun 29th 2005 at 7:21pm
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Posted 2005-06-29 7:21pm
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Oberfeldwebel

I would certainly be interested in using some of your voice work when I'm ready. Don't need too much, just a description of what the objectives are while the opening cinematic plays. I was thinking it would sound like a radio transmission - like they did in BloodRayne 2 (where an accomplice radios you advice on what to do).

Thanks for the offer.

BCL
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Dark_Kilauea on Wed Jun 29th 2005 at 8:32pm
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Here's an idea, instead of the camera looking at the objective, how
about creating a room next the the airboat area. In this room,
put in some rebels and through a cinimatic, tell the player what to
do. I can help you with Faceposer if you wish.

Until Later...
Dark_Kilauea
DVS Administration
http://www.dvstudio-production.com/
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by BCL on Thu Jun 30th 2005 at 6:23pm
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Posted 2005-06-30 6:23pm
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Dark_Kilauea

The cinematic idea would certainly be more Half-Life 2 like. I'm a bit concerned it might be hard to let the player know where the exit is without having a camera shot to show him (though finding the oil tanks is easy). I'll play around with some opening cinematic stuff this next week, and if it works well I'll contact you for some face poser help. I'll probably make a picture of the beach area to hang on a wall and have someone point to the oil tanks, then have the camera focus on a picture of the exit.

Regards

BCL
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by G.Ballblue on Thu Jun 30th 2005 at 7:21pm
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Finger said:
any good suggestions for alternate (free) program?
The program I'm going to suggest isn't free, but it is deffinetely worth the money you would spend on it --- Goldwave is an excellent sound program, with some somewhat techincal ways of editing sound.

The only problem I have found with it is that is kinda unstable :/ The program seems to crash whenever I hit my "play" button to many times in succesion...
Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by bubbachase94 on Sun Jul 5th 2009 at 12:06am
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Hi Dark_Kilauea? I was wondering if you could help me with the faceposer. I don't know how to do it.

Chase
Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by Riven on Tue Jul 7th 2009 at 3:19am
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Have you checked out the many tutorials over at The VDC? Here's their introduction page to the whole shlam of tutorials they've got clustered up over there! Also, if you have any specific questions that you can't find answers for, feel free to post your own questions here in our 'source engine editing' forums!

Good luck. :D
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Re: asb_blocke_alone Posted by bubbachase94 on Tue Jul 7th 2009 at 7:30pm
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Thanks. Il take a look at them.