dod_belfort

petty as it sounds, i can only comment on texture alignment.

the pillar under the bridge in screen 3 needs addressed.

continues droolage

That was already addressed orph, I fixed all of the textures around the map that are on angles. So it looks fine now. There are a lot of different sources for my textures, it's a mix of 4 default DoD .wads 2 custom ones (Blazeeer's DoD wad and the classic_klein wad) as well as a custom door from a seperate wad. There are a handful of my own and other DoD forum members' texturs as well. (For example, the stained glass is my creation and the mud to grass blend is by IR-InW-.)

why is my own burning snakr as a topic picture here??

Stop your complaining boy! :rolleyes:

why is my own burning snakr as a topic picture here??:confused:

Better yet, why is that silly picture of yours in the gallery of horror?

cuz if i put my real freaky pic in there they would find me. cain is for carlos. carlos would find. carlos would kill me. because im taking his kills. he got he informants evrywhere. maby you even are. noone knows how i look. im a chameleon. moving swiftly throw the dark. i have no face. no identity. they say im cain, they say im bourne.

who are they??

Back on topic, when can we expect this map Gorb?

yeah i looks damn nice

Well I've fixed all the layout bugs that I could find. And I'm just working on the flags right now, since my focus is teamplay I have to balance which I want to be multi-caps and how many. It should be ready by the end of the week, maybe less maybe a little more. Can't be 100% sure.

pepper said:
yeah i looks damn nice

And people say I'm egotistical.

Nice map Gorb, it's about time we got a DoD map that looks 'solid'.

I've actually been impressed by the DoD official maps, as far as visuals go. Perhaps the textures are half the reason but they look pretty damn nice in my opinion. This is no different, and looks as if it could fit in with the official maps as good as any.

I've implemented the flags now. There are a total of 7. Both "HQ" flags are double-caps for the opposing team and single for the home. There are 2 2-man caps equi-distant from both sides. Then 2 single man caps near the central area as well as a 3 man middle cap. I'll be working with the # of flags as well as their requirements over the next few days. It seems like a lot at first, but while playing it works fine. Since it requires the team to play together rather than single people being able to prevent a win. I can easily take out the two single man caps if there just seem to be too many flags. The alpha stages will tell. I've also fixed any graphical niggles that I could find. I'll make sure all of the balance is worked out, then pump the current layout full of as much detail as I can squeeze without breaking both compile and personal limits.

aren't most dod maps now insanely high wpoly? DOD no longer can run on my computer due to something in their update and I"m guessing its their r_speeds. Framerate is about 5 fps for me now.

They're enough to make me cry, okay, not really. But at least feel frustrated for the little guy. Because it was a mod that used to focus on getting it to the most people, now it's the same message in spirit, but I don't see them fixing their buggy code, or playing it smart with mapping. There are too many stupid things (i.e. caen STILL has the stupid short draw distance, making the plaza a joke. It still renders the polies, why not make it look consistant?)

i geus they dont know how to draw it right

Alrighty, here are a few teaser pictures of the Axis spawn, Allied spawn and layout respectively. While I iron out my alpha version, some areas don't have enough detail in my eyes and I'm going to maximize what I have. General r_speeds are below 800 with one or two spots at about 850-900. epolies are much lower than before. There are 7 flags, and 2 are advancing spawns to move the flow of the map up. I've made bot waypoints as well, and they'll be testing the thing out as well for general balance, then when I'm satisfied I'll be releasing it in the dod forums and will have a link for you.

As always, Gorb. Very nice.

Oh and that Axis player you see in the first shot is the anti-spawncamping MG. Unlike the official dod maps this one actually sounds like an MG42. As well as the oh-so-fun Tiger tank on the other exit.

Allied soldier in the Axis base near the Tiger = pwned.

The wall fragments = uber blocky in pic 2. You're fired.

That is one of the areas that is included in my "not enough detail yet" category.

[edit] It's been spiffy-fied. Looks much better now, I also made the destroyed house/tunnel bigger, and added another exit. It also looks more like there used to be a house rather than just a cube in the ground. I've also made a large house for the Axis base rather than the flag just being near two bushes in an alcove. Both sides have respectable "HQs" now. The bots blow at testing the balance of the map as they don't seem to like area-caps very much, they just walk past, as well as the church requires a crouch to enter from one side, and the bots seemed to have forgotten how to do that. So I'll have to organize an alpha test this week.

Well I just did an hour long stress/bug test to see how the map flows. I figured out how to get the bots to wait for time caps and it works well now. The map flows so much faster than I had thought it would. Rounds are smooth. Teams gain a sort of momentum as they cap more stuff, allowing for a "push" across the map. The timing and distances appears to be even, but only the beta playtest will tell. There isn't much else to do environment-wise now. I'll add a few pictures/decorations here and there, but other than that I'll be ready to release the beta.

By the way, it was a 30 bot, 2 person test. Even on his 700Mhz with a 32Mb card the map ran just fine (as opposed to the official maps, which don't fare as well.)

When are you having this beta test? I might come along if its ok with you.

That'd be good. I'm planning on having an alpha test this week and the more people the better. I only have one problem to solve currently and it's not a big one. (Only has to do with Steam compatibility and one of the minor entities.) I want this map to be 1.0/1.1 compatible for both WON and Steam.

If you need numbers I can probably get my 3 flatmates to play as well, if you need them. They are all better at DoD than I am, though I'm not terrible :smile:

Give me a yell too. I don't know If I will have time, but if I do, I'd like to get in the game.

im sure I can convince a few people to join a serv, depending on where its hosted.

holler at me if/when you want a critique

anonymous upon request.

Granted this compile goes smoothly, I'll make a quick overview and we can test with this version. I don't know which is more convenient for everyone, Steam or WON? I prefer WON, but Steam works too.

The only issue is that for now, the trigger_multiple messages don't seem to work in Steam, as well as this odd problem of falling in brushes occurs sometimes in Steam too. This isn't a map error as the same areas are fine after a re-load usually, and there are 0 issues in the WON version.

Well WON will be gone soon enough so if there are steam issues, best try to iron them out, as its the future and all. I can test today or tomorrow but will most likely be gone over the weekend. If you do hold it then though, I could still probably get my 3 flatmates to test it with you if you want.

dont know anyone on WON anymore, including myself. infact mys team is probably out of date tbh, been playing EQ for the last week. im hooked :S

I'll most likely be playing tomorrow at 2pm PST for a bit, I've made a huge change to one of the areas to drop the polies, add cover and add atmosphere all in one go. I think it works out nicely. Download the .zip from http://members.shaw.ca/cplusdod tomorrow if you intend to join my server (add me to your friends list, Gorbachev email= purple_monkey_dishwasher_86@hotmail.com) There is an older .zip on the website right now, check it out if you really want to, but a lot of what's in that version has probably been changed. There are still a few areas I'm not 100% satisfied with yet, but when I am that'll be the beta release time.

whats 2pm PST in GMT?

10 GMT

PST = -8 GMT

I'm compiling now, it'll be about an hour, but you'll see me on Steam. I'll update the file when it's done so you can either join my server or just test it out on your own. If you would be so kind as to either give feedback here or send informative critiques to gorb@shaw.ca that would be great. If a part isn't right, don't just say it's wrong, tell me why and a suggestion you have. Thanks.

[edit] The compile completed successfully, I'm now uploading it to http://members.shaw.ca/cplusdod for you to download. All necessary files should be there. If you have any troubles give me a shout.

I'll start the bug-list as well here. (And if fixed/tested yet for beta.)

-Section of wall at the end of the allied spawn tunnel missing. (yes/yes)

-Chunk of grass allows you to "fall through" in Steam only near allied HQ. (yes/no)

-Texture on steps of church accidentally changed. (yes/no)

-trigger_multiple text messages don't show up in Steam. (no/no)

(insert obligatory warning message here)

O.K. considering i know nada about the game play involved with a DoD map, i will try my damnedest to stick strictly to the cosmetics and such involved with the design, and construction of the map.. also, if i repeated any comments already posted, mark it up as my own laziness to not reading all the preceding replies..



Now this is basically a pet peeve of mine, and basically consistent throughout the entire map.. 1st off, alignment issues.. which are obvious, and prolly already mentioned so much gorby is tired of hearing it, but the only reason i bring it up at all is.. the walls.. are all standing, but there are no buttresses anyplace, no end, nor beginnings, no posts, nada.. the walls are just standing.. it always seemed to me to be odd where walls have nothing actually holding them up.. at least each time they actually change direction.. but as i said, its a pet peeve, and strictly up to the author.



another bit of trivial commentary.. you can see behind this house, but cannot walk behind it.. if there were a fence, you could understand, or with other locales in the map, a tree has fallen to block the way, but here its open.. and i assume clipped off :sad:



another wall, misaligned, and nothing in the way of transition between its changes in direction :sad:




two doors, same house, one on floor, the other standing, but on the sunlit side of the house.. func_doors do not block light when compiling, the light on the floor looks odd at best.. my advice.. switch doors locations with each other.



this table, may have a purpose i dunno, but it needs some broken chairs or boxes to sit on, also for all the debris, the handrails are almost all whole.. looks odd IMO



dark, really dark.. screens are unaltered, so i dunno if its my PC, or the map.. or the authors intention.. more people need to look to get a consensus i suppose.



beautifully flowing water to..... no place :sad: .. some sort of a drain, or outlet needs added for authenticity.





these three shots, all of the same area.. show a HOM effect.. prolly due to some clipping of the angles.. an invalid solid might be around close :sad:



although a nice touch most times, in this case, i feel the body under the rocks is out of place, the body has no obvious damage, no blood, its just.. there :sad:



logs undamaged as well.. need some smut covered logs instead..



car against wall = bad ... at the very least, set it at some sort of an odd angle, or damage it in some way????



for all the rubble, there is no smoke, no dust.. everything looks as if its been vacuumed spotless.. in fact the whole town looks like Mr. Clean made a house call.. the town has damage, but is so pristine, no burnt treetops (although a few are on their sides, but even these still retain leaves, something not normal for fallen timber :sad: ) no real battle damage at all..





toss a grenade into the water.. the effects are impressive :biggrin:



more dark tunnels, and nothing holding the roofs up.. /me wonders, if battles were present before they were dug



a hole in the wall?? intentional though i doubt it to be.. it definitely marks the tunnel entrance behind the bush





climb the wall, and you see this :sad:

i am totally cognizant of the notion, that i more than likely missed a s**t load of details, i got turned around several times, just acquiring these few screen shots, and i also realize that almost all of my comments focus on the issues that need attended to, this is no reflection on the map, or gorby's mapping ability.. this is a superb map in all respects, and if i really needed to, i could get just as many screen shots of the great areas.. but since critiques should not have to focus on what doesn't need fixed, it would only take up space.. gorby knows his work is superior to most, he doesn't need my verification to make it so..

nice map gorby, and i cannot wait to look it over in beta form..

Good critique Orph. I like the way you just looked at problems too, never good when a thread just gets good posts. Always good to have an honest and noticing person like you to poke us into shape :razz:

I think links to the screenshots would be more suitable, that's a lot of screens for a 56ker to download.

If you read the what he writes and carefully look at the screens though it's fine (I'm on 56k and it loaded quite quickly). Links to screens would be annoying I reckon.

Well, if it loads ok, fair enough. It's just large posts full of screens tended to annoy me during my 56k days.

i apologize for the quantity of screen-shots, but believe me, i resisted taking more, the map is so nice..

just be glad, i am such a nazi on optimizing them.. look at the actual file sizes, they are tiny when compared to most peoples, and damned good quality still..

again, i apologize, but a critique warrants them.. at least mine do.. please get used to it.

Seemed fine to me

Very nice Jon, was going to take a run through this myself when I got some time. :smile:

Alien_Sniper said:
Very nice Jon, was going to take a run through this myself when I got some time. :smile:

thanx dave, turned out pretty good for my debut return if i do sayso myself :biggrin:

Thank you for your input. The majority of those issues I'm either a)aware of or b)don't have much left in compile limits to address. (sorry if my comments are really out of order)

I found the HOM error, and a few of the others while I was running around before this critique and they've already been addressed to.

The darkness of the map tends to alter with each compile (I don't know why exactly) I could probably just up the minimum light a bit.

I've put up supports in most areas, that allied tunnel still needs a bit of work, I'll probably end up making it squared with supports.

I know about the alignment issues..only problem is, it's either going to be aligned but stretched or it will take me days to align everything. (Think about the sheer amount of walls and how I'd have to make them all aligned in sequence.

I could throw a fence in that spot for sure in the Allied spawn.

As for the light through the door, I know about it, but I can't change them around for fear of spawn camping. I'm working on adding a similar anti-spawn camping that the Axis have into that door area THEN I can fix that light leak.

That table -used- to have fallen chairs near it, but it was at that time I ran into the precache model overflow error, and deleted them in a frenzy to try and lower entities, I've figure out what the cause is now, and I can add a chair or two there. As well as break a few of the rails too.

That dark tunnel is intentional, but it will be brightened a bit with next compiles. (it's hard to find a light balance, as too bright is nasty, but so is too dark.)

I know the water somewhat "ends" but I don't have any more wpoly that I can use, that area is already pushing it. It's flowing slow enough that I just think of it as a sort of pond, but if anyone has any solid ideas then by all means say 'em.

As for the smoke, burnt-ness and such. The church at least, well isn't on fire so I think it's fine as-is. The logs and most trees are default models, so unless I can find otherwise I'll work with what I have. I could add sprite smoke in some areas so we'll see about that. I think there is a destroyed car model, so I'll add that in place of the other car and just destroy the area around it.

As for the guy crushed by the rocks (which is just a little detail anyway) I don't think blood is necessary because the height of the rocks isn't really enough to cause anything more than internal damage.

I've also fixed the clip on the two trees in the main area, as well as made the stump of the tree over the river a lot nicer than what's in those pictures.

Overall it's fairly "clean" because it's suppose to be a recently battled area (within a day). So the trees on their sides would still have their leaves and such. I'll add a few fires, smoke and whatever else I can squeeze in.

Thanks for pointing the stuff out, I did find some of it myself as well, but this helps too. Comments/suggestions from others are encouraged.

[edit] as for supports on the walls throughout, I think I can put them in at joints (some wood supports). Very minimalistic though.

i am so glad you liked it.. understandably, i am a bit gun-shy when doing critiques anymore.. i never know how far to push the truth.. sadly, i wish i didn't have to think about that aspect at all. :sad:

if you like, i can do one more critique of the "finished" works.. prior to release, all you need do is ask.. assuming i am home or you have time to wait for me to get home..

good luck gorby :smile:

Nah, feedback is great. I already know people like it, I'm always up for technical problems to be addressed. Once all of that's done, the beta comes out. That is for gameplay critiques. I'll be sure to run the map by you once more before I'm finished the beta.

You can set func_doors to block light. Set it to opaque in the ZHLT Lighlt flags selection in the properties box.

i have been giving the water some thought, as its the most critical visual flaw in the map IMO..

how about moving some trees, or bushes, or possibly some cat tails water plants to obscure the fact that there is no outlet.. then once its obscured, put some black texture behind to give the impression of an outlet...

or possibly, find a texture, that has a tunnel... with the plants it could be pulled off.

Alien_Sniper said:
You can set func_doors to block light. Set it to opaque in the ZHLT Lighlt flags selection in the properties box.

I'm aware, but then it looks stupid when the door is open. It's bad either way.

Orph, I'll be thinking hard on what a good outlet can be...actually, I have a pretty good one, I'll make a stone surrounded drain, with a grate. Then have the water going into that, and as a touch of continuity I'll have it flowing down visibly in the tunnels (a little side detail sort of thing).