Pointfile

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I've read throughout the tutorials and the previous posts.

So please, as tempting as it is, dont lock this :biggrin:

Hok. I added some extra areas to my map and some lighting. I also fixed my helicopter/rope problem (I think). But when I compile it, I get a leak error. I spent the last hour looking for it but in vain. So I downloaded VHE 3.5 and loaded up the pointfile. But all I got was a confusing mess. I know the most probable cause is the red lines but they lead nowhere.

I would load up pointfile in CS and that would probably help but I dont have HL installed. My friend could find my CD. Anywho, think you guys can figure out this?

My best guess from the coordinates and the red line would be that light fixture in the second screen. But I cant see how.

In all honesty WC, no one can find your leak with a set of screenshots.

you will either just follow the dots like the rest of us, or con another to do it for you.

find the beginning and just follow it slowly, all of us have to.

consider this your version of me with MM's

i can find leaks always, you cannot.. you can make MM's i cannot.

leaks are much easier to find than MM's are to build.

Orpheus said:
consider this your version of me with MM's

i can find leaks always, you cannot.. you can make MM's i cannot.

leaks are much easier to find than MM's are to build.

:biggrin: Honestly though, I dont have any holes.. no entities outside of the map, and no func_walls looking to the outside.

or con another to do it for you.

Can I con you? :razz:

follow the dots

In VHE? Thats impossible. There no beggining, theres no end.

i have never used VHE to find a leak, didn't even know it could..

seriously, i have not made 6 leaks in 5 years of mapping, i have found leaks 100's of times for others tho. so i do know how.

i cannot do it, as you know i no longer have anything HL1 related on my PC

but you know i would if i could, i have found several for you already :biggrin:

I think I need to bug my friend again. Pointfile always makes more sence in HL.

Just load it in HL and then type pointfile (you probalbly already knew this), but did you know you can extend the points out furter by typing a number after it?(50000 persay), this is my method of finding leaks, and its worked fairly well.

ps: map looks great

I know about the whole thing in HL, but I dont have it installed at the moment, and my friend lost my CD...

too bad, ill check it if you want. :biggrin:

Now is that senseer (spelling :razz: ) Like I could send you the .BSP and .PTS files so you could look. I would like some screens though (and comments are also welcome :biggrin: )

Wild Card said:
Now is that sincere (spelling :razz: ) Like I could send you the .BSP and .PTS files so you could look. I would like some screens though (and comments are also welcome :biggrin: )

www.iespell.com is calling to you

Fine laugh at me Im french :biggrin: s**t that dosent work anymore

Wild Card said:
Fine laugh at me Im french :biggrin: s**t that dosent work anymore

kinda like me defending myself with arkansas as the excuse

omegaslayer4777 said:
Just load it in HL and then type pointfile (you probalbly already knew this), but did you know you can extend the points out furter by typing a number after it?(50000 persay), this is my method of finding leaks, and its worked fairly well.

ps: map looks great

It's the same thing that the pointfile in Hammer acheives now.

WC, try copying and pasting the entire map into a new one, I had a problem like this before where there was no leak, but it kept saying there was. I just copied the whole thing over to a new file and compiled and it worked fine.

Also, the colour of the Hammer line is supposed to be a "heat" trail to where the leak is, so the colder areas are blue/purple and the red areas are closer to where the leak should be.

"Following the dots" is the same as following the lines in Hammer, the dots mean nothing, it's just a line.

Try these at least.

funny, this leak with no leak thing.. just how common is this malady? cause i have never heard of it till recently, right here at SP.

have you tried exporting and reloading the .map yet?

this cures a lot of woes.

a leak with no leak..

I'll try the copy and paste thing.

Also, in the log, right before the first process (the build face thing I think)

It says it removes 8 brushes = 48 faces.

The .MAP loads fine without errors/

Wild Card said:
I'll try the copy and paste thing.

Also, in the log, right before the first process (the build face thing I think)

It says it removes 8 brushes = 48 faces.

The .MAP loads fine without errors/

it never removes brushes unless there are defects.

sometimes the removed brush fixes the error, sometimes it is the hole.. find them, or the spot they were deleted from.

How do I find them? Heres me log:

hlcsg v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
----- BEGIN hlcsg -----
Command line: hlcsg.exe -wadinclude de_alert.wad -wadinclude contest.wad "C:\Program Files\Valve Hammer Editor\maps\de_alert"
Entering C:\Program Files\Valve Hammer Editor\maps\de_alert.map

Current hlcsg Settings
Name | Setting | Default
---------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads [ 1 ] [ Varies ]
verbose [ off ] [ off ]
log [ on ] [ on ]
developer [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
chart [ off ] [ off ]
estimate [ off ] [ off ]
max texture memory [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
priority [ Normal ] [ Normal ]

noclip [ off ] [ off ]
null texture stripping[ on ] [ on ]
clipnode economy mode [ on ] [ on ]
onlyents [ off ] [ off ]
wadtextures [ on ] [ on ]
skyclip [ on ] [ on ]
hullfile [ None ] [ None ]
min surface area [ 0.500 ] [ 0.500 ]
brush union threshold [ 0.000 ] [ 0.000 ]

Using mapfile wad configuration
Wadinclude list :
[zhlt.wad]
[de_alert.wad]
[contest.wad]

8 brushes (totalling 48 sides) discarded from clipping hulls
CreateBrush:
(5.61 seconds)
SetModelCenters:
(0.00 seconds)
CSGBrush:
(5.17 seconds)

Using Wadfile: \wads\standard\xeno.wad
- Contains 5 used textures, 5.81 percent of map (264 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \wads\standard\decals.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (245 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \wads\standard\halflife.wad
- Contains 46 used textures, 53.49 percent of map (3116 textures in wad)
Using Wadfile: \wads\standard\liquids.wad
- Contains 0 used textures, 0.00 percent of map (32 textures in wad)
Including Wadfile: \wads\map files\de_alert.wad
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (466272 bytes): '{+0ROTOR'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (466272 bytes): '{+1ROTOR'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (466272 bytes): '{+2ROTOR'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (466272 bytes): '{+3ROTOR'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (466272 bytes): '{+4ROTOR'
- Warning: Larger than expected texture (466272 bytes): '{+5ROTOR'
- Contains 34 used textures, 39.53 percent of map (40 textures in wad)
Including Wadfile: \wads\contest.wad
- Contains 1 used texture, 1.16 percent of map (1 textures in wad)

added 4 additional animating textures.
Texture usage is at 2.47 mb (of 4.00 mb MAX)
12.14 seconds elapsed

----- END hlcsg -----

hlbsp v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
----- BEGIN hlbsp -----
Command line: hlbsp.exe "C:\Program Files\Valve Hammer Editor\maps\de_alert"

Current hlbsp Settings
Name | Setting | Default
-------------------|-----------|-------------------------
threads [ 1 ] [ Varies ]
verbose [ off ] [ off ]
log [ on ] [ on ]
developer [ 0 ] [ 0 ]
chart [ off ] [ off ]
estimate [ off ] [ off ]
max texture memory [ 4194304 ] [ 4194304 ]
priority [ Normal ] [ Normal ]

noclip [ off ] [ off ]
nofill [ off ] [ off ]
null tex. stripping [ on ] [ on ]
notjunc [ off ] [ off ]
subdivide size [ 240 ] [ 240 ] (Min 64) (Max 512)
max node size [ 1024 ] [ 1024 ] (Min 64) (Max 4096)

Warning: === LEAK in hull 0 ===
Entity light @ (-576, -96, 0)
Error:
A LEAK is a hole in the map, where the inside of it is exposed to the
(unwanted) outside region. The entity listed in the error is just a helpful
indication of where the beginning of the leak pointfile starts, so the
beginning of the line can be quickly found and traced to until reaching the
outside. Unless this entity is accidentally on the outside of the map, it
probably should not be deleted. Some complex rotating objects entities need
their origins outside the map. To deal with these, just enclose the origin
brush with a solid world brush

Leak pointfile generated

14.80 seconds elapsed

----- END hlbsp -----

hlvis v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
----- BEGIN hlvis -----
Command line: hlvis.exe "C:\Program Files\Valve Hammer Editor\maps\de_alert"

There was a problem compiling the map.
Check the file C:\Program Files\Valve Hammer Editor\maps\de_alert.log for the cause.

----- END hlvis -----

hlrad v2.5.3 rel Custom Build 1.7 (Dec 9 2002)
Zoner's Half-Life Compilation Tools -- Custom Build
Based on code modifications by Sean 'Zoner' Cavanaugh
Based on Valve's version, modified with permission.
Submit detailed bug reports to (merlinis@bigpond.net.au)
----- BEGIN hlrad -----
Command line: hlrad.exe "C:\Program Files\Valve Hammer Editor\maps\de_alert"

There was a problem compiling the map.
Check the file C:\Program Files\Valve Hammer Editor\maps\de_alert.log for the cause.

----- END hlrad -----

hmm i thought hull 1 was inside the map.. what is zero?

I never understood that hull stuff.

Ok, I removed the lights in the stairs and the leak changed place. Now it points to the floor of the terrorist spawn point. But that floor has been there all along.

I tried redoing the floor, no change, and I tried copying the whole map and saving it under a different map but no change either.

Discarding brushes/faces from the clipping hulls is a standard operation in MHLT and higher and in no way an indicator of any error.

Also, assuming you only have one leak, you'll notice by the pointfile that it goes both inside and outside the map. Don't just follow the lines; that'll get you nowhere. Look specifically for any case, likely towards the red end of things, where it actually cuts through geometry. Any small offshoot line hitting the middle of a brush is usually not the culprit, but if you find a large cluster of the lines or a thicker line that suddenly moves from inside to outside at the exact same point, you have a winner.

The pointfile also can be fairly useless if you have multiple leak points. Solving one area may not fix the problem.

Marking this as a possible answer just in case it gets the right results, but I'll understand perfectly if you give me a big ol' denied :smile: hehe

KungFuSquirrel said:
Discarding brushes/faces from the clipping hulls is a standard operation in MHLT and higher and in no way an indicator of any error.

true, when i commented i thought he posted the message of the export and reloading of the map.

my bad

• Warning: Larger than expected texture (466272 bytes): '{+0ROTOR'
• Warning: Larger than expected texture (466272 bytes): '{+1ROTOR'
• Warning: Larger than expected texture (466272 bytes): '{+2ROTOR'
• Warning: Larger than expected texture (466272 bytes): '{+3ROTOR'
• Warning: Larger than expected texture (466272 bytes): '{+4ROTOR'
• Warning: Larger than expected texture (466272 bytes): '{+5ROTOR'

would this cause a leak?

No, any texture with dimensions higher than 256 in either axis will give that error, but you can easily include 512x512 textures (and possibly higher) in a map with no error. Just something the compiler doesn't like.

Ok, I know its a CS map, but I loaded it in HL (I went to some other guy and borrowed his CD) and I loaded that pointfile ingame. But it dosent lead to any leaks.

Oo! And I had 4000wpoly :biggrin:

you know, once a long time ago, i used the wrong texture on a func_tank i made, don't ask me which, but the map after i compiled it said i had a leak.. i just remembered this.. have you got any complex entity setups? something recent, and more than just walls and water?

I found my problem.





The funny part is. Pointfile in VHE and HL didnt pick it up. The hole is about 10 by 5 units big.

I also dont know how it got there as I have not edited that part of the outdoor area since my last successful compile.

i suppose, telling you to block the map in the PM did it huh???

well, I think you meant put the level in a hollow block. But instead I but a large block over the whole thing and made it smaller. The thing I found strange is that the HL and VHE pointfiles both missed it. VHE came close, but nothing that remotly would hint to a leak there.

Everytime I loaded pointfile in HL though the dots would stop at some random area.

Wild Card said:
well, I think you meant put the level in a hollow block. But instead I but a large block over the whole thing and made it smaller. The thing I found strange is that the HL and VHE pointfiles both missed it. VHE came close, but nothing that remotly would hint to a leak there.

Everytime I loaded pointfile in HL though the dots would stop at some random area.

read your PM's i did indeed mention both ways.. glad you solved it none the less :smile:

So Im Illeterate ... and unable to spell worth a damn

Don't you hate those ones, you look everywhere else but that area you least expect it.

Maybe Orpheus told you in a pm but there is another way to find leaks. Create a large brush covering half of your level. Compile (don't run vis or rad) to see if there is a leak. If there is, you know it is in the uncovered half of the level. Create another brush covering half of that etc. etc. This can take a little while depending on how complex your level is but you'll find it eventually.

Orpheus said:
funny, this leak with no leak thing.. just how common is this malady?

i've got a bsp that a friend asked me to have a look at, to see what could be done to reduce r's in one of the areas. when i tried to compile it, after some tampering, it had a leak. the pointfile in vhe went straight through a wall. on one of the faces of the wall was a brush that had been clipped badly, and had some floating points. as the leak disappeared when i func_walled this brush, then i assume that the brush had been face-splitting the main wall, and causing the leak. even though there was no 'hole' in the editor.

my solution was indeed blocking, but as i told WC in his pitcrew thread, i am betting money his particles ran out, that is why his pointfile didn't make it to the hole..

increase the particles to at least 50,000 guys

pointfile has always worked for me, never failed once.

Well, the particles started at the same place. And ended at different points, depending on where I had put the block at first. Or maybe it was starting at a different location and ending at the same one.

And whats the command for more dots? Cause I tryed like pointfile 1, pointfile 10000 but there was no difference.

Wild Card said:
And whats the command for more dots? Cause I tryed like pointfile 1, pointfile 10000 but there was no difference.

you get the extra dots by adding the paramater -particles 50000 (or the number you desire) to you desktop shortcut.

Thanks fishman :smile:

but you don't have HL, so that probably won't work, will it? I don't recall -particles being a VHE command-line argument, heh.

I was able to bum the CD of some other guy I know. As for mine, my friend still hasent found it.

If you don't have Half-Life you just compile the map and use pointfile in Hammer 3.5 It does give you the EXACT same result since it's using the .pts file :rolleyes:

No Gorb, the results are different. Firstly, HL's pointfile, (in my experience) dosent move out of the map until it reaches the leak. The VHE pointfile constantly moves in and out.

As well, except for this instance, pointfile has always lead me exactly to the leak location, VHE wasent even comming close.

its +particles 50000 WC

Wild Card said:
No Gorb, the results are different. Firstly, HL's pointfile, (in my experience) dosent move out of the map until it reaches the leak. The VHE pointfile constantly moves in and out.

As well, except for this instance, pointfile has always lead me exactly to the leak location, VHE wasent even comming close.

Well for starters when I do it in game, it's not slow enough for me to follow it. And the pointfile is the same. It HAS to be, it's reading from the same file. You just have to learn how to interpret it.

Ok, maybe the interpretation is right. But what do you mean slow enough? The line dosent move.

Then I don't see the problem...if you compare them, they're exactly the same. The Hammer pointfile goes through the leak too. In fact, it's easier to use for many areas since the sky block will not be see-through. Just be sure you're using the 3D view in Hammer or else you're pretty much SOL.