Null textures...

Someone told me a while ago that if you apply Null texture to faces of brushes that arn't seen ingame, it saves WPoly. Well, I've tested it, and it didn't work. Does anyone disagree or know something about it?

I think it depends on what faces you texture with NULL what affects it will have. for instance, if you texture a face that is outside the visability hull of the map, it will be discarded anyway and NULL texturing will not benifit you. on the other hand, if the face is not ever going to be directly visable to the player, but still within the visability hull, then it might save you somthing to put the NULL texture on it.

That is my understanding, but I've never tried it out to be sure.

Null texturing is tricky, so it's not surprising you had problems implementing it. Here's some key points to remember:

X - Any faces that touch the void will be automatically culled (removed) by CSG, so you won't notice any drop in wpoly if you texture the outside of your map in null, for example.

X - Adding null to non-visible faces on brush entities can spare some wpolys depending on what sort of angle you view them from.

X - Null can be used like the caulk texture from the Quake 3 engine - simply place a null brush behind brush entities. You can also create a box textured in null and fill it with more complicated detail. I used this method to construct the infestation on the ceiling of the Eclipse Command hive in ns_eclipse and the floor and ceiling both in the Computer Core hive, though I eventually changed the floor back to the black texture - null caused a problem in the minimap auto-generation.

X - Null will remove lightmaps as well as the faces themselves, so placing null on non-visible surfaces that are -not- automatically culled by CSG (i.e. you could otherwise see them in the map) can slightly speed up lighting and slightly drop file size.

X - Trigger brushes, while not visible, still take lightmaps. Texturing your triggers and other invisible brushes in Null can make a notable difference.

Null is sometimes hailed as a bit more of a godsend than it really is, but keeping these applications in mind can help you squeeze as much life out of it as you possibly can. Hopefully this helps your understanding of it a bit more, and you'll have a better idea of what results to expect from various uses of the texture.

Optional said:
Does anyone disagree .......?

if that's what your looking for, you've come to the right place. i think most people here will oblige. i know i certainly do. :razz:

before Vash eats your legs, i have a question. Do you see the NULL texture in-game, just the same as you see it in hammer? if so, then you are using the wrong compilers, aka 'tools'

It can be a godsend in certain cases, in a lot of dmc or enclosed spaces it won't make much of a difference. But in outdoor maps like what I'm making it does help a ton. To be able to remove unseen faces gives me a lot more to work with.

I find it very useful when making areas players can see but can't access.

X - Null can be used like the caulk texture from the Quake 3 engine - simply place a null brush behind brush entities. You can also create a box textured in null and fill it with more complicated detail. I used this method to construct the infestation on the ceiling of the Eclipse Command hive in ns_eclipse and the floor and ceiling both in the Computer Core hive, though I eventually changed the floor back to the black texture - null caused a problem in the minimap auto-generation.

Can you explain that a little more clearly?

X - Trigger brushes, while not visible, still take lightmaps. Texturing your triggers and other invisible brushes in Null can make a notable difference.

Learn something new every day!

Personally I try to get the most out of the NULL texture by constructing all the architecture in my map out of it from the start. Then, I run through and re-texture only the faces that can be seen.
Note that NULL can touch the void, so it won't create leaks, but when the compile is done all NULL faces will no longer be there. That means you can make a window out into the void with a NULL block that will compile successfully but give you an HOM when you view it in-game. Kind of a neat effect if you're trying to create a motion blurred area, with some sort of addtive world block around you and the NULL outside of that.

NULL can also be useful if you need something to surround your entities with while they're out in the void at the start (e.g. stuff that flies out of the level and back in)

Personally I try to get the most out of the NULL texture by constructing all the architecture in my map out of it from the start. Then, I run through and re-texture only the faces that can be seen.

But that does nothing, as all those invisible faces get culled by CSG anyway :razz:

? quote:Personally I try to get the most out of the NULL texture by constructing all the architecture in my map out of it from the start. Then, I run through and re-texture only the faces that can be seen.

But that does nothing, as all those invisible faces get culled by CSG anyway :razz:

On the inside of the map, too. Upper areas of roofs that I later clip off, obscure spots on cliffs, backsides of crates, anything that doesn't directly touch the void but still can't be seen - it's all NULL to me.

Alien_Sniper said:
I find it very useful when making areas players can see but can't access.

yeah, definitely. any face not visible from the play area I NULL. hell if you clip outside the windows in Revenant, or above the roof/windows in Meatpit, it's NULL all over. along with the sky brushes, NULL let's you create an illusion of spaciousness and detail with minimal polies spent.

another trick: null the bottoms/tops of pillars, chairs, etc. that you have 1-pixel spaced from the floor/ceiling. or, if you have a func_wall detail brush against a wall, on the bottom of a pillar, etc. NULL the face it is hiding since VIS will see through the entity and draw it otherwise. i use NULL to instead of the all-blue {invisible texture as well, though I'm not sure if it matters.

sure, it sounds like a lot of tweaking just to save a few polies, but it can add up to noticable savings. you especially need these tricks in wide-open maps. it took massive tweakage to get Revenant's speeds down to something acceptable (820 tops) since it's basically a giant, high-detail killbox.

[EDIT] isn't his real question that the NULL texture isn't working, not that is isn't lowering rspeeds? I think you need a special build of Zoner's to use it, perhaps that's his problem?

merls half life tools. And i think he was saying that it didnt reduce wpolies.

-BB

It wouldn't be reducing wpolies if he didn't have the right tools. It'd just show up as a regular texture. Merl's tools are good and have the ability to use NULL.

Also, hey Optional, I didn't even recognize you :razz: